Difference between 6-knobs and 3-3knobs?
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MadWerewolfBoy
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i don't think that makes a significant diff to the sound produced 8)
G
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or like the musicmen, the tuners are like 4-2 
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
oh yeah... hey didn't think about that...ShredCow said:
i though it was scale length that affects tension... hmmm come to think of it... haha
Ariedartin
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Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
The thing about 6-in-line headstocks is that:
1. the string is on a relatively straight path from bridge to tuner. Technically improves tuning stability, reduces string 'kinkage'. Given the right lubrication, your typical 6-a-side tremolo guitar should have little tuning issues unless you dump ur tremolo like crazy.
2. if your tuners are too close to one another (I've experienced this), when using a string winder the winder may langah the other tuners, unless you turn the tuner heads perpendicular to the headstock surface.
3. unless you have string trees, since the treble strings go on a longer path from the nut to tuner (in the case of typical right-handed guitars) the treble strings could be a little "floppier"? It also means you might have to tweak your tremolo claw and springs to get optimum tuning stability when doing tremolo dumps and vibratoes.
the same pretty much goes for the music-man styled 4-2 combo, but it is slightly compromised... not exactly a straight-in-line string profile.
The only guitars with this concept but with 3-a-side tuner placements are PRS guitars, which (with certain models)do come with graphite nuts, which may or may not be anyone's cup of tea tone-wise.
However, being a user of Epiphone and Fender guitars, I'd say that each guitar has its own specific tone.. and all these little things contribute to how these guitars sound and feel. Why bother getting a 3-a-side, non tremolo guitar if you feel like you gonna zhng it to have a floyd rose or have the finis stripped down and having it oil-rubbed?
So to answer your question, the answer is yes.. there is a significant tone difference between the variosu guitar models (duh)... but I do not think the tone is primarily due to tuner placement.
More like construction, wood type, finishing and electronics (if any).
hope this helps.
The thing about 6-in-line headstocks is that:
1. the string is on a relatively straight path from bridge to tuner. Technically improves tuning stability, reduces string 'kinkage'. Given the right lubrication, your typical 6-a-side tremolo guitar should have little tuning issues unless you dump ur tremolo like crazy.
2. if your tuners are too close to one another (I've experienced this), when using a string winder the winder may langah the other tuners, unless you turn the tuner heads perpendicular to the headstock surface.
3. unless you have string trees, since the treble strings go on a longer path from the nut to tuner (in the case of typical right-handed guitars) the treble strings could be a little "floppier"? It also means you might have to tweak your tremolo claw and springs to get optimum tuning stability when doing tremolo dumps and vibratoes.
the same pretty much goes for the music-man styled 4-2 combo, but it is slightly compromised... not exactly a straight-in-line string profile.
The only guitars with this concept but with 3-a-side tuner placements are PRS guitars, which (with certain models)do come with graphite nuts, which may or may not be anyone's cup of tea tone-wise.
However, being a user of Epiphone and Fender guitars, I'd say that each guitar has its own specific tone.. and all these little things contribute to how these guitars sound and feel. Why bother getting a 3-a-side, non tremolo guitar if you feel like you gonna zhng it to have a floyd rose or have the finis stripped down and having it oil-rubbed?
So to answer your question, the answer is yes.. there is a significant tone difference between the variosu guitar models (duh)... but I do not think the tone is primarily due to tuner placement.
More like construction, wood type, finishing and electronics (if any).
hope this helps.
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
hmmm though through some physics... 1st part is true but...ShredCow said:
since technically, the only parts vibrating are of nearly constant length (saddle to nut), the strings behind the nut to the machine heads do not count...
since tension is constant through out the string, the tension from the nut to saddle is the same as the tension from the head to the saddle is the same to the nut to the head...
mmm interesting there...
can test this out with 2 extremes... get 2 6 in-line tuning machine heads guitar. one the normal way (facing up) the other the inverse way (facing down)
load same sets of strings to both and tune to same pitch and pluck... in theory, should feel the same... but whehter sound the same or not thats hard to say/hear...
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
oh the equation:
f = (1/2L) (T/mass)^-1/2
here, the L concerned is the length of the vibrating part of the string.
explaination here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_string
so thus i guess the part behind the string doesn't go into the equation and can be ignored. :/
f = (1/2L) (T/mass)^-1/2
here, the L concerned is the length of the vibrating part of the string.
explaination here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_string
so thus i guess the part behind the string doesn't go into the equation and can be ignored. :/
Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
Of course the strings between the nut and the tuner vibrate.. it's just that there isn't a large enough soundboard and not sufficient vibration length to produce a significantly audible sound.
However, that said.. one of the many permutations of miking an acoustic guitar is to mic the headstock (along with the soundboard, etc), in case anyone didn't know.
Now that's food for thought.
Of course the strings between the nut and the tuner vibrate.. it's just that there isn't a large enough soundboard and not sufficient vibration length to produce a significantly audible sound.
However, that said.. one of the many permutations of miking an acoustic guitar is to mic the headstock (along with the soundboard, etc), in case anyone didn't know.
Now that's food for thought.
G
Guest
Guest
MadWereWolfBoy said:
AH! MY BRAIN!!!
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
yar my head hurts...
tension, T, is constant through-out the string. so the tension at the machine heads and the tension at the bridge is equal.
if length of vibrating string, L, is constant, to get a particular frequency, f, using a similar strings with constant linear mass, mew, T must be of a particular value.
i.e. T in string is same no matter how far or near the machine heads are...
but, WHAT changes is, the angle of inclination of the strings from the nut to the machine heads... further machine heads results in low bending angle of strings... the angle the string makes at the nut determines the net moments between the headsock and the rest of the guitar... i'm not sure how this affects tone but... people use string trees to make the angle bigger for furthur machine heads... dunno if its for tuning stability or for tone though...
tension, T, is constant through-out the string. so the tension at the machine heads and the tension at the bridge is equal.
if length of vibrating string, L, is constant, to get a particular frequency, f, using a similar strings with constant linear mass, mew, T must be of a particular value.
i.e. T in string is same no matter how far or near the machine heads are...
but, WHAT changes is, the angle of inclination of the strings from the nut to the machine heads... further machine heads results in low bending angle of strings... the angle the string makes at the nut determines the net moments between the headsock and the rest of the guitar... i'm not sure how this affects tone but... people use string trees to make the angle bigger for furthur machine heads... dunno if its for tuning stability or for tone though...
Crawldaddy
New member
Hmm.
I suppose that if the angle behind the nut or behind the bridge is too shallow, the string would lack certain levels of tone definition because the string would be flopping around with the nut and bridge as 'interference points'.
but a lesser angle behind the bridge and nut allows for easier bends at the lower frets, and thus affecting tone.
Haiyah.. tone is in ur fingers. Shit in = shit out.
I suppose that if the angle behind the nut or behind the bridge is too shallow, the string would lack certain levels of tone definition because the string would be flopping around with the nut and bridge as 'interference points'.
but a lesser angle behind the bridge and nut allows for easier bends at the lower frets, and thus affecting tone.
Haiyah.. tone is in ur fingers. Shit in = shit out.
We were not talking about vibrations or tonal repercussions.... just the difference in tension.
Basically, when you stretch a string, you stretch a certain area, which would be...
On a floyd rose, double locking system,
Bridge to nut.
On a non locking system
Bridge to tuner.
So, the longer the string, the more you have to stretch it to get it to pitch, increasing the overall tension. Example, baritone guitars.
Does not matter for a double locking system. Matters for the rest.
More tension can also result in a DRASTIC change in tone. Again, Baritone guitars, and people like Jim Soloway of Swan Guitars, swear by the 27" scale.
As for string angle from tuners to nut....
Its mainly tuning stability.
Oh, this is for you floyd rose users. Most of us have this long string tree after the locking nut? You know what its for?
Ever noticed before locking the nut, you tune up just nice... then lock the nuts, and the guitar is out of tune again?
Yes.
Its because of that string tree.
I can't recall to adjust which way... but when adjusted correctly, you locking your nut, everything will remain in tune.
Basically, when you stretch a string, you stretch a certain area, which would be...
On a floyd rose, double locking system,
Bridge to nut.
On a non locking system
Bridge to tuner.
So, the longer the string, the more you have to stretch it to get it to pitch, increasing the overall tension. Example, baritone guitars.
Does not matter for a double locking system. Matters for the rest.
More tension can also result in a DRASTIC change in tone. Again, Baritone guitars, and people like Jim Soloway of Swan Guitars, swear by the 27" scale.
As for string angle from tuners to nut....
Its mainly tuning stability.
Oh, this is for you floyd rose users. Most of us have this long string tree after the locking nut? You know what its for?
Ever noticed before locking the nut, you tune up just nice... then lock the nuts, and the guitar is out of tune again?
Yes.
Its because of that string tree.
I can't recall to adjust which way... but when adjusted correctly, you locking your nut, everything will remain in tune.
G
Guest
Guest
wads a string tree..wikipedia has bothing about it..and googling it...so many irrelevant results. :?