[vogue]angel
New member
yeah........ totally agree. but just wondering, wat kind of challenges u say?
Developing Musicality
- Thread starter pf
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Cheez
Moderator
Teaching a child is not as simple as one thinks. "Musicality" or musical sense comes with maturity in music, unless the child is a prodigy/gifted. So when starting out, developing a deep interest may not come immediately. Sometimes, it's just skill and technique training, which may seem boring at that time. But in time, the training will prove useful. I'm not saying force the child - that's the last thing in my mind. But we shouldn't go to the other extreme saying that if the child has no interest, then forget it. How often do we find a child deeply interested in studying and taking exams? That doesn't mean that child shouldn't go to school.
So it's a balance. Teaching music is one thing. Teaching children is another different skill set. Teaching music to children is another different thing!
Teaching my 6 year old son piano is a big challenge. But I'm glad at this stage, he practices entirely on his own everyday. He is getting more and more interested, even though he has to repeat a piece many times a day just to get it right - he gets thrill in doing that. I don't recall I had that kind of passion when I was his age.... But when I first started him at 4, it's near impossible to get him interested. I can't force him, so I need to take it very easy and slowly till the interest comes. No point talking to him about too much musical sense at now - he doesn't understand. Skill at this stage. When he matures more in music, more will be added. And I'm certainly no piano teacher - just trying to save money by teaching myself. When he reaches higher grades, I'll have to get a proper teacher trained in teaching piano. As piano_ex said, teaching piano is a skill. Able to play does not equate to be able to teach. I can teach many things, but teaching piano is not the same.
So it's a balance. Teaching music is one thing. Teaching children is another different skill set. Teaching music to children is another different thing!
Teaching my 6 year old son piano is a big challenge. But I'm glad at this stage, he practices entirely on his own everyday. He is getting more and more interested, even though he has to repeat a piece many times a day just to get it right - he gets thrill in doing that. I don't recall I had that kind of passion when I was his age.... But when I first started him at 4, it's near impossible to get him interested. I can't force him, so I need to take it very easy and slowly till the interest comes. No point talking to him about too much musical sense at now - he doesn't understand. Skill at this stage. When he matures more in music, more will be added. And I'm certainly no piano teacher - just trying to save money by teaching myself. When he reaches higher grades, I'll have to get a proper teacher trained in teaching piano. As piano_ex said, teaching piano is a skill. Able to play does not equate to be able to teach. I can teach many things, but teaching piano is not the same.
pf
New member
Teaching adults or learning as an adult is also not easier.
Challenge #1: Expectation gap
Expectation gaps as follows:
-student himself/herself (can't learn as fast as he/she expected of himself/herself)
-student and teacher (student expect teacher to teach certain things certain way at certain pace)
-teacher and student (teacher expect student to learn certain things certain way at certain pace)
Challenge #2:
Unable to make commitment to musical growth as it requires considerable engagement mentally, physically and the time to mature.
Challenge #3:
Learning speed and ability decline. Need more time to develop the fine kinesthetic motor skills for playing music.
Challenge #4:
Tend not be stretched for fear of mistakes and losing face.
Hahaha!!! I shall not go on. Or else no adults would wanna learn music anymore.
But seriously.....I'm meet these same challenges as all adult learners. I like to learn new things and is self-professed a lifelong student, but I can't remember that I ever had as much fun learning other stuff as compared to music.
Challenge #1: Expectation gap
Expectation gaps as follows:
-student himself/herself (can't learn as fast as he/she expected of himself/herself)
-student and teacher (student expect teacher to teach certain things certain way at certain pace)
-teacher and student (teacher expect student to learn certain things certain way at certain pace)
Challenge #2:
Unable to make commitment to musical growth as it requires considerable engagement mentally, physically and the time to mature.
Challenge #3:
Learning speed and ability decline. Need more time to develop the fine kinesthetic motor skills for playing music.
Challenge #4:
Tend not be stretched for fear of mistakes and losing face.
Hahaha!!! I shall not go on. Or else no adults would wanna learn music anymore.
But seriously.....I'm meet these same challenges as all adult learners. I like to learn new things and is self-professed a lifelong student, but I can't remember that I ever had as much fun learning other stuff as compared to music.
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Luciela
New member
Well said, Cheez, you have provided rather strong points regarding musicality in children. I reiterate what I've mentioned previously- it's fine to expose a child to music at an early age to gauge their aptitude and interest in it- if a child has a knack for music, he or she WILL be naturally inclined to music without much force, but it is important to note that if a child does not show interest in it, force and persuasion should not be shown. That's where I notice a lot of richer parents try to force their uninterested child in something that they don't take a liking to, and oftentimes, although the child has been conditioned to play well with good technical skills, the passion is non-existent. And that's where it's rather sad, because there are a lot of people out there with the passion but lack the skills. I feel it would be quite a waste because it is not something that child wants.
I understand that there are many reasons why a child might not show interest in the formal part of music (e.g. learning notation), but I should think that it would be rather easy to see if a child is interested in music as a whole at an early age or not.
This can be seen by several indicators, like, preference for certain specific genres of music, having rhythm, tapping fingers or feet along to music, concentrating hard when a song is on, or, liking music lessons in school (don't know if they still have that though- they used to have it in my time and we used the recorder).
Personally, I've always been interested in music at an early age, although I always had trouble with the notation. I had no idea what the teacher was talking about, all I knew was that I enjoyed the singing and music making on the recorder.
Music is not an easy thing to teach, especially the formal part of it. It takes more than just music lessons in school to get a child interested, though. That's where the parents have to pick up on the child's aptitude there and work on it.
Of course, it's not easy learning- I myself am just starting to learn how to play the keyboard and although it's only been a day, I feel rather frustrated at not being able to play whole simple pieces. I guess this is where a dedicated and passionate instructor comes into the story as it's not easy being able to make magic with the keys.
And we all wish we could make magic with our respective intruments, don't we?
Sigh.
@pf: It's quite a challenge as an adult as we have our own other responsibilities to attend to. I told myself: 2 hours everyday starting from yesterday to learn all about notation, keys and memorization, then steadily increase by 30 mins every week until I can tahan 6 hours a day, haha. It's always practice, practice, practice!
I understand that there are many reasons why a child might not show interest in the formal part of music (e.g. learning notation), but I should think that it would be rather easy to see if a child is interested in music as a whole at an early age or not.
This can be seen by several indicators, like, preference for certain specific genres of music, having rhythm, tapping fingers or feet along to music, concentrating hard when a song is on, or, liking music lessons in school (don't know if they still have that though- they used to have it in my time and we used the recorder).
Personally, I've always been interested in music at an early age, although I always had trouble with the notation. I had no idea what the teacher was talking about, all I knew was that I enjoyed the singing and music making on the recorder.
Music is not an easy thing to teach, especially the formal part of it. It takes more than just music lessons in school to get a child interested, though. That's where the parents have to pick up on the child's aptitude there and work on it.
Of course, it's not easy learning- I myself am just starting to learn how to play the keyboard and although it's only been a day, I feel rather frustrated at not being able to play whole simple pieces. I guess this is where a dedicated and passionate instructor comes into the story as it's not easy being able to make magic with the keys.
And we all wish we could make magic with our respective intruments, don't we?
Sigh.
@pf: It's quite a challenge as an adult as we have our own other responsibilities to attend to. I told myself: 2 hours everyday starting from yesterday to learn all about notation, keys and memorization, then steadily increase by 30 mins every week until I can tahan 6 hours a day, haha. It's always practice, practice, practice!
Mobius
New member
Surround the child with music, and see if they take interest in it. I never had the chance to learn music or listen to music when I was young. Only started listening to music in my teens, and my music journey started from there. I pick up the guitar and now keys without any parental or peer pressure, I did it because I LOVE it! I think musicality is something that can be learned to a certain extent but its the inate talent and passion for music that makes u better than the others. Its something like you can study/work very hard and get a PhD but it takes real talent and passion to get a Nobel Prize
jude777
New member
developing ur musical abilities...
hi, im a piano teacher.i kno its more difficult to develop it at d later stage but stil highly possible....to excel in dis...
1)practice daily
2)stay focus
3)mus hav correct attitude, d passion, desire mus b there
4)listen attentively, closely to more classical songs like mozart, schubert..etc.(listen to d songs tats ur genre...)
i tink tats abt wat i can tink of now though theres much more...
if u hav anyting u r unsure of...u can contact me @ j7a7c@hotmail.com
rock on...
hi, im a piano teacher.i kno its more difficult to develop it at d later stage but stil highly possible....to excel in dis...
1)practice daily
2)stay focus
3)mus hav correct attitude, d passion, desire mus b there
4)listen attentively, closely to more classical songs like mozart, schubert..etc.(listen to d songs tats ur genre...)
i tink tats abt wat i can tink of now though theres much more...
if u hav anyting u r unsure of...u can contact me @ j7a7c@hotmail.com
rock on...
pf
New member
Just thinking out loud...
How does one's
- learning style Overview of learning styles,
- intelligence Theory of multiple intelligences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Intelligence in Seven Steps: Howard Gardner, and
- personality type Myers-Briggs Type Indicator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
interact in developing musicality/music learning?
Many variables and possible permutations. But it would be awesome if someone did a study on this. :-D
因材施教也
How does one's
- learning style Overview of learning styles,
- intelligence Theory of multiple intelligences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Intelligence in Seven Steps: Howard Gardner, and
- personality type Myers-Briggs Type Indicator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
interact in developing musicality/music learning?
Many variables and possible permutations. But it would be awesome if someone did a study on this. :-D
因材施教也
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Cheez
Moderator
Yes, they all affect. That's why in teaching and training, the best teachers and trainers are those who take all these into consideration so their students can learn the most out of their time in the lesson. This is more than music - it's about teaching and learning in general.
For the learner, it's important to know his/her way to learn (ie learning style) and try to cross-learn using other techniques to learn. As for personality, there are so many models that it can make one's head spin. Although Myers-Briggs is the most commonly used, it is also the more complex ones. Easier to understand will be SCMP or DISC. Another interesting one is Emergenetics which I've attended last year. Really helped me understand myself and others and how to work together. Didn't give more insight towards musicality though...
For the learner, it's important to know his/her way to learn (ie learning style) and try to cross-learn using other techniques to learn. As for personality, there are so many models that it can make one's head spin. Although Myers-Briggs is the most commonly used, it is also the more complex ones. Easier to understand will be SCMP or DISC. Another interesting one is Emergenetics which I've attended last year. Really helped me understand myself and others and how to work together. Didn't give more insight towards musicality though...
pianomankris
New member
One book:
Robert Sternberg - Handbook of Creativity
'Cheez' has summed it up well with his comments regarding teaching children. Yes, sometimes it can seem a little forced, but, if given complete freedom, would the child want to learn anything that we could consider abstract? e.g. would it naturally want to learn how to read?
Bad tuition is also a major issue. But the quantity of tuition, i feel, is also important, and an issue that has been overlooked here. I had a lesson every day from the age of 3 to the age of 16 (well, maybe not christmas day ), and i feel it has made a great difference.
I have a pupil just now who i teach every day (well, 5 days a week) - she is 6 and 1/2, and has just gained a distinction in grade 5 (ABRSM). (She has been getting lessons for 3 years now). I'd say this approach makes a difference - i see it with pupils i have who get a lesson once a week. The gulf becomes huge, even after a few months.
(Or, in another way - if the child had a reading lesson once a week, how good would the child be at reading by the age of 18? So it is with music.)
But i do understand that the cost of such an approach is a huge issue. I only have 2 pupils i teach in this way, and the rest i see once a week. However, i'd rather only have 4 pupils who i saw every day. My energies (and the pupils) would be better spent this way.
I'd say in order to develop fully in the individual, music needs to stop being considered 'extra-curricular' and needs to be something that is integral to the daily life of the individual.
It would be interesting to hear some thoughts on this.
Robert Sternberg - Handbook of Creativity
'Cheez' has summed it up well with his comments regarding teaching children. Yes, sometimes it can seem a little forced, but, if given complete freedom, would the child want to learn anything that we could consider abstract? e.g. would it naturally want to learn how to read?
Bad tuition is also a major issue. But the quantity of tuition, i feel, is also important, and an issue that has been overlooked here. I had a lesson every day from the age of 3 to the age of 16 (well, maybe not christmas day
), and i feel it has made a great difference.I have a pupil just now who i teach every day (well, 5 days a week) - she is 6 and 1/2, and has just gained a distinction in grade 5 (ABRSM). (She has been getting lessons for 3 years now). I'd say this approach makes a difference - i see it with pupils i have who get a lesson once a week. The gulf becomes huge, even after a few months.
(Or, in another way - if the child had a reading lesson once a week, how good would the child be at reading by the age of 18? So it is with music.)
But i do understand that the cost of such an approach is a huge issue. I only have 2 pupils i teach in this way, and the rest i see once a week. However, i'd rather only have 4 pupils who i saw every day. My energies (and the pupils) would be better spent this way.
I'd say in order to develop fully in the individual, music needs to stop being considered 'extra-curricular' and needs to be something that is integral to the daily life of the individual.
It would be interesting to hear some thoughts on this.
wjvocalist
Member
For those adult piano beginners,
dont give up! I am like one of u guys seriously. Its slow in the beginning but u will improve in time if u practice regularly. Most importantly, dont compare yrself to children for goodness sake! It's much easier for kids to learn cos they dont hv much to worry abt (like making a living) and furthermore their brains are more recepitable in accepting information.
dont give up! I am like one of u guys seriously. Its slow in the beginning but u will improve in time if u practice regularly. Most importantly, dont compare yrself to children for goodness sake! It's much easier for kids to learn cos they dont hv much to worry abt (like making a living) and furthermore their brains are more recepitable in accepting information.
icrashedanddied
New member
learning music
Well, musicality is usually innate in a person. Finding a good teacher is very crucial. Price shouldn't deter you. Schools like Yamaha are often very cheap, BUT the students they produce are only mediocre. Teachers there are either unexperienced, not qualified at all OR trying to make a name for themselves. You shouldn't settle for average. For example a trademark of yamaha students is FLAT FINGERS which often hinders a player when it comes to running notes. I advocate well trained and learned teachers like the Lim sisters, Lena Ching, Benjamin Loh etc etc. Technique also plays a very important role in a musician's development. A final tip would be if you want your child to be a future professional musician, the instrument he learns is vital. There is not much future for a pianist. Its EXTREMELY difficult to get into a professional orchestra and the only safe option is to be a MOE music teacher or you can try your luck by going private. But keep in mind that you have to compete with the best thats already out there.
Well, musicality is usually innate in a person. Finding a good teacher is very crucial. Price shouldn't deter you. Schools like Yamaha are often very cheap, BUT the students they produce are only mediocre. Teachers there are either unexperienced, not qualified at all OR trying to make a name for themselves. You shouldn't settle for average. For example a trademark of yamaha students is FLAT FINGERS which often hinders a player when it comes to running notes. I advocate well trained and learned teachers like the Lim sisters, Lena Ching, Benjamin Loh etc etc. Technique also plays a very important role in a musician's development. A final tip would be if you want your child to be a future professional musician, the instrument he learns is vital. There is not much future for a pianist. Its EXTREMELY difficult to get into a professional orchestra and the only safe option is to be a MOE music teacher or you can try your luck by going private. But keep in mind that you have to compete with the best thats already out there.
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