creating space in mixing

23th Nigredo

New member
hi guys, i'm doing home recording.
my songs always sounded crammed, after a long time i realized it was the lack of reverb. now my songs aren't squashed anymore and it sounds as "big" as i want it to be but now certain things like my vocals and hit hats getting muffled plus there's this echo destroying the clarity of the whole song.

is there a way to get the "space" i want
without echo,muffling or losing clarity???

help me please!!!
 
I think the first step for any good mix is to start with a good song arrangement. If your arrangement is busy with too many instruments then maybe you may first want to start with re-thinking the arrangement itself. See what really works for the song. Its not about "how cool my arrangement is", but more about "how cool my song is"...

If you have figured that out, then the next step for you would be to understand how to use the various tools available within your system to help you in manipulate sound to make it sound real and more "open".

Step 1: Make sure your recording itself is clean. If you have to use too much EQ for the instrument or a voice to sound "good", then your recording technique itself is flawed. EQ is there to just enhance the sound a bit, as and when needed, or to change the frequency of a particular instrument so that "sits better" in your overall mix. So dont over use EQ. If you do, as mentioned above, have a re-look at your recording chain.

Step 2: Yes, reverbs sound lush, but you have to be careful as to how much reverb is really needed on a track. Too much will make it "muddy" or "wet", but no reverb or too little may sound "Not so nice"... So once again, depending on the song and the arrangement, you have to make sure that the reverb type and the amount is just right. For example: A rock song (like anything from AC/DC) may sound awful if you dump tons of reverb on it. You will end up KILLING the song.

Step 3: There are other FX too... try out a bit of delay, etc. Helps in "opening up the mix". But again, be careful in what kind of a delay and the amount of delay you use.

Step 4: Use the mutes... If your track has no sound on it during the chorus for example, mute it. You dont want unnecessary noise in your mix. You can un-mute this track just when the sound is about to playback.

By no means are these hard and fast rules... they are just guidelines, thats all... Every song and every mix differs in its own unique way... And what matters at the end of the day is the song. Nothing but the song. That and the "space between your ears" to take that song even further with your recording and mix.

Best of luck!!
 
I'm lost diff types of delay and reverb.. i thought they all work the same..i mean all vsts of reverb do the same function right? just variating in parameters...and eq only affects the tone right and not e space?
 
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forgot to mention one thing though..
i'm using steinberg's roomworks..
and i added the effect to the whole mix..
should i apply it individually?
 
yes apply individually unless you want all of them to have equally reverb.
in any case, most people won't spoonfeed you on how to mix right exactly because the basics of all mindset to start with is : "if it sounds good, it's right. if it sounds like sh*t, it's not."
google soundonsound or tweakheadz etc, follow the guidelines NJKB mentioned

mixing is about balance. so it's addictive to overuse stuff easily, try to keep in moderation.

welcome to the lifelong journey of audio production.
 
I would recommend a good book if you intend to continue mixing your own songs.

I recommend picking up the book in the link below at a bookstore like Kino or Borders and reading the chapter on reverbs:
Mixing Audio

Taught me everything I know about mixing. And still teaching me more as I mix tracks.

Invaluable advice every chapter.
 
hi guys, i'm doing home recording.
my songs always sounded crammed, after a long time i realized it was the lack of reverb. now my songs aren't squashed anymore and it sounds as "big" as i want it to be but now certain things like my vocals and hit hats getting muffled plus there's this echo destroying the clarity of the whole song.

is there a way to get the "space" i want
without echo,muffling or losing clarity???

help me please!!!

Do what your ears say. =)

While everyone else is pre-occupied with throwing in effects, try dry-mixing. Mix all your tracks a layer at a time, and plant them in the stereo field, which ever way you like. If the dry mix works, any effect you throw at it moderately will only enhance. If it sucks, fix the bad parts, and start again.

Jump ahead with all the fancy stuff and you'll end up with nothing but a bad party. Point is, if the source ain't good enough, it ain't worth working on.

But because music has evolved massively since Rock'n'Roll, not unless a specific effect is what you want in the songs, record your sources clean. Otherwise, experiment with the effects and put them as priority in the overall mix, then mix other elements around this. However, using this as an excuse to cover poor performances is just totally -.-"

Have fun! :grin:
 
Normally, all my track will send a pre signal to a reverb bus.
My track is normal "dry".
I can balance "dry" and "wet" signal easily.
I only use a reverb plug-in, it save resource too.
Only add other reverb on my track if I wanna push my sound further away more.

My technique is to create a room environment for my mix mainly.
 
"I think the first step for any good mix is to start with a good song arrangement. If your arrangement is busy with too many instruments then maybe you may first want to start with re-thinking the arrangement itself. See what really works for the song. Its not about "how cool my arrangement is", but more about "how cool my song is"... "

This is SO true!
 
You'll need a lot of time to craft your mix. Apply individual reverb to the instruments. Try make the instruments sound like they are in the same room. Reverbs usually have a setting called PRE-DELAY.

This is very important as this pre delay thing will make ur instrument sounds near you or far away from you. Set the room space first, as this will determine what kind of room you are in. The more pre delay you have, the further away the instrument will sound from you. So play around with this and hope u'll get ur mix done pretty.
 
Some reverb tips

this came out on Gearslutz a few weeks ago. You might find it useful.

The prominence of the instrument will determine how live the reverb should sound. Why? The reverb is going to reinforce whatever is feeding it. If you have a lead vocal generating a flat reverb, and the drums generating a bouncing reverb, your drums are going to get the attention - which can be good or bad, depending on the scenario. That being said, let's say you want the lead vocals to be the focus. Instead of throwing a compressor on your lead vocals, bus your lead vox to an aux channel, and then compress. Go to the uncompressed vocal channel, and throw an aux send to your reverb channel. This will give you controlled vocals, but live space!

We will be sending other instruments to our reverb channel, but let's focus on getting the reverb right on just our lead. If we can get it right here, everything else falls into place. To do this, we need the reverb loud, the diffusion and decay/density and room size all the way down, the time, and the predelay all the way down. You may have to turn the time up a little so you can actually hear the reverb, but you want to hear it as close to a pulse as possible.

Start with the predelay. This is the first rhythmic element of your reverb. Let's say your bpm is 120. That means you have one half note every 500ms. You have one quarter note every 250 ms. You have one eighth note every 125ms, you have one sixteenth note every 63ms. 32nd notes at 32ms. In order to have the predelay trigger the reverb in a rhythmic fashion, it needs to be at one of these measures. I'd go with 32 or 63ms, because we want the reverb to still feel attached to it's source sound. Also, you notice how I rounded up? That's to put the reverb "behind the beat." This helps create a rhythmic pocket. I might even suggest moving the predelay higher a couple ms, just to make that pocket a bit more solid, and so that the hit of the reverb isn't directly overtop the next part of the music.

Now move on to the Duration. Using the same time rubric, we can determine how long we want our time to be. Texturally, we want our reverb to be clean. This means a long time is going to create a wash sound, and defeat the work that we did on the pre-delay. The reverb time in a small room is very quick. A quarter of a second, give or take. Rhythmically, we want our reverb to pull us into the meter of the song. So we want our length to line up along the same rubric we found for the predelay. Let's say 250ms. This way, we're moving right along to the quarter note pulses. BUT! Consider that our predelay is set to, say, 34ms. This means we have the tail of the reverb pulling us to the beginning of the next reverb, not the beginning of the next pulse. Subtract your predelay from your time, 250-34ms. Set your reverb time to 216ms. Remember, even if you don't hear the difference between 216 and 230, if the track is going to get heavily compressed, that difference WILL stand out.

-Side note- predelay and time are subject to taste. Use the math to get where you want. I usually find the math gets me right there. But make adjustments and go with what sounds best.

Size. Size will effect the tightness of the sound. This is more creative, but here's a good starting place: Divide your time by ten, and round to the closest integer. That's a good number of ft for your room size. Adjust up or down according to tone and texture. Too large will get a spacey characterless sound. Too tight will sound almost more like a echo/delay.

Decay/Density. This is somewhat ambigous, and different processors will give you different results. Basically, I equate this to presence. Remember you have your reverb up loud now, so adjust the presence to match with the instrument that's feeding it. You probably want your reverb a nudge less present than that.

Diffusion. This basically refers to how far the source sound is to your ear. Unless you plan on sending each element to its own reverb (using the same processor with the same settings and using different diffusions is not a bad idea if you have the time) set the diffusion as the average distance between the furthest element in the mix and the closest. If you picture your sound stage as having the drums at the other end of the room as the audience, and the vocalist being halfway toward the audience, you want your diffusion to be 75%. There will be other ques from the mixing of the instruments themselves to put them in their own space.

Damping. Picture the material you want your room to have. Is it metal walls? Is it oak wood? Picture your ideal room and how it sounds, then adjust the damping to meet that. Damping is how long frequencies persist during the period the reverb is presence. Basically fiddle until you get it right. Your going to eq in a moment anyway.

BUT FIRST

Compression? Sometimes, there is a lot of attack sound in reverb. Especially when hot transients from your drums are feeding into it. It might be worth taking a compressor and setting as fast an attack as possible and a really quick release, just to ease off the transients. But be careful. Compression will eat the energy out of your reverb (if there's too much energy afterall, that's the point). Err on the side of caution, and if you're not sure, leave it out. I find I don't usually need to compress out the transients in the reverb. But every now and then, I do.

Ok, now EQ. The idea of the reverb is to lie underneath your sounds. You will find that as other instruments start feeding the reverb, you get fatty build up somewhere in the high mids, somewhere in the mids, and sometimes in the bass/sub bass. Your goal is to find the fattest point in these three sections and use a wide bandwidth to ease this build up away. A HP filter may not be bad to get rid of the bass build up. You can generally cut out anything below 70Hz. Be honest though, that rule doesn't apply 100% of the time - maybe 90% of the time.

FINALLY, start lowering the sends on each instrument individually. Solo one instrument at a time. Lower the send volume until the reverb exists, but the total clarity of the instrument is still present. After this is done for all instruments, start adjusting the send levels by little bits based on what sounds best: Here's a tip: Normally we like to put heavy reverb on things like strings and pads. While that seems logical, it's actually not the way to go. Think about this, if you have a constant tone playing at one level, even if it's way down in the mix, won't it stand out? Take instruments that naturally sustain at one level, or have lots of compression on them, and reduce the amount of reverb. The more dynamic instruments like vocals, should have the most reverb. That means drop the reverb in your heavily compressed drums, and your sustaining pads - not boost the reverb on your vocals. Less is more.

NOW, the final test.

Mute your audio. Mute your reverb aux channel. Wait a minute, shake your head out. Stand up, get a drink of water. Come back and unmute your audio.This is the dry sound, no reverb. Listen for a moment, then unmute the reverb. Does it sound like the song just came to life!?

If it does - your done. If it doesn't, it's back to the drawing board.
 
Start with good mic-ing or miking techniques. Knowledge on the type of mics too. Some low cost mics can still obtain a decent sound capture if u apply the above mentioned with some care and experiment.
Of cos there're also other areas/factors (in particularly the technical aspects) that can affect ur sound & mix. They are the various component in the signal chain.
- How well a mic pre-amp u have play a part as well.
- The accurarcy of ur reference monitors and/or headphones
- Inherent noises such as hiss or hum (whether is fm cables, device electronic
components or fm electrical problems etc)
- Not forgetting the issue on room acoustics

Other than these will be the creative and artistic aspects, which the above posts fm fellow softees have highlighted and recommended.

Hope this helps : )
 
hi guys, i'm doing home recording.
my songs always sounded crammed, after a long time i realized it was the lack of reverb. now my songs aren't squashed anymore and it sounds as "big" as i want it to be but now certain things like my vocals and hit hats getting muffled plus there's this echo destroying the clarity of the whole song.

is there a way to get the "space" i want
without echo,muffling or losing clarity???

help me please!!!

I personnaly never use reverb on my recordings. Except a very light one on vocals which you almost can hear. I think reverb can make your recording very "dated".

Instead, I record in nice sounding rooms, use good preamplifiers (Sytek-MPX4‎), play pretty far away from the microphone and usually use 2 microphones: One ribbon (Royer R121) and one static (AKG C414). Once the recording is over, I put the signals in phase.

That's what I used on my recordings you can listen on http://facebook.xisy.fr or you can listen download the album here:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/nzuvft2hdmy/xisy.zip
 
Mate,

I've not read any of the posts, so here are my 2 cents...

Consider this: Rubbish in, Rubbish out!

Also consider this:

- Volume (how loud you'll like each instrument to be - remember that it's your mix and not anyone else's)

- Pan (Where you'll like the instruments to be placed in the Stereo field)

Once you've done this, consider learning to use an 8 band EQ: (Hi/Lo pass/shelving/parametric) and also the Compressor...

These are the basic stuff and mere suggestions. Once you get pass this stage, everything else will follow.

The art of mixing requires a set of ears with a vision in mind, and an understanding of what can, and can't be achieved, with his/her/hisher/herhis gear.

Note to self: Pay good money for superior sound. OTHERWISE, live with what you have..
 
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Mate,

I've not read any of the posts, so here are my 2 cents...

Consider this: Rubbish in, Rubbish out!

Also consider this:

- Volume (how loud you'll like each instrument to be - remember that it's your mix and not anyone else's)

- Pan (Where you'll like the instruments to be placed in the Stereo field)

Once you've done this, consider learning to use an 8 band EQ: (Hi/Lo pass/shelving/parametric) and also the Compressor...

These are the basic stuff and mere suggestions. Once you get pass this stage, everything else will follow.

The art of mixing requires a set of ears with a vision in mind, and an understanding of what can, and can't be achieved, with his/her/hisher/herhis gear.

Note to self: Pay good money for superior sound. OTHERWISE, live with what you have..


nice... anyway, is there any place i can read up more on "8 band EQ: (Hi/Lo pass/shelving/parametric) "

volume and pan are still pretty-to-catch concept.. but eq.. hmmm...
 
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