Another Davis bad service story (refunds and exchanges)

[glblues]

My friend told me this story. I will keep his identity secret since he is quite a well-known guitarist, but i felt the story should be shared to all softies here.

He plays in a pretty well-known bar and plays 6 nights a week.

For the past 15 years, he has been religiously buying strings and picks from davis. He has also bought the occasional amp here and there. He spends probably $100 a month on strings.

So the volume pot on his strat died. After 10 years, of course it would.
He popped down to Davis, bought a volume pot ($15) and tried to install it into the guitar. He found that the pot wasnt working, and tested it with one of those wire conectors (?)

so he brought the pot back to davis to get a new one.

They refused to because it had soldering on it. they wouldnt even refund him the money, even after showing them with a meter that it wasnt working.

This is what they do to a customer, even after 15 years of loyal service.

He was so upset and said this is not how you conduct business. He himself runs a bar which has been in operation for more than 15 years.

So the moral of the story is - buy davis, their prices are not such that they screw you like Swee lee but when it comes to refunds or exchanges. Forget about it. Its not our business. You bought the product, you never bothered to test it before you paid your money.

Guitar stores in Singapore are so funny

 

[soft]

Let's focus on the threadstarter's issue. If fellow SOFTies have other experiences/feedback, please start your own thread.

glblues, might be a misunderstanding lah. I am sure the Davis people will treasure such a long time customer like your friend.

These new pots, are they usually good or sometimes there are some bad ones too?

 

[glblues]

they are usually ok. rarely there is a faulty one, but in this case there was.

common sense - if a store sells a faulty product and there is no avenue for a refund or even a one to one exchange...? which clothes, or electronics store ever does this?

i do believe that davis did not treasure this relationship in this case. he practically had a heated arguement with them and he has decided to bring his business elsewhere. (i told him where to get cheap strings )

i have my own Davis stories, but as you said, i am merely relating his story which i felt was a different side to the ones i normally hear (cannot use pick, can test for only 2 mins, etc etc)

my point is this - $15 is not alot of money. my friend doesnt care about the money, but he did put this point across:

if you buy anything faulty from their store and it cannot be used, and they cannot sell it, then what happens?

imagine if you bought a whole carton of guitar strings and find that by some stroke of bad luck they are all missing the high e string. (lest say you opened the vaccuum pack.)
by their logic, you cannot return it because they cannot sell it. so you are saddled with a whole carton of useless sets of strings?

sure one could argue that different products will demand different refund policies, but the point is this - "are you so sure?"

next time you buy that PRS 20th anniversary single cut and find a noticable scratch on the back and they try and push the blame onto you instead.

the point is not the volume pot. it is the philosophy of it, which just makes for bad business.

 

[mikemann]

Being a repairman myself, I can understand the fustration of a spare part not functioning as it should. But, what Davis did is not wrong, and it's the norm practise. It'd be a same story esp at simlim tower.

Firstly, the item is already in used condition. Meaning, your friend had actually soldered on it already.

Secondly, there is a possibility, the pot could be damaged when he was doing the soldering. (there is heat tolerance, if the part is heated incorrectly or too long, it get toasted)

Thirdly, oxide could form on contacts of the pots wiper(during storage or transit), which can often be remedy by correct application of contact cleaner.

Forthly, there is also a slim possibility the pot is a lemon, certain batches are known to be failure prone (irregardless if it's alpha, cts, brandless...)

But, it's unwritten rule that spare parts don't carry warranty in general, sometime shops can do testing for you when you buy it. By using a multimeter, general function of some components can be check.

I hope you can carry this message back to your friend. That's why repairman is around, to allay these possible drawbacks of DIY.

I do not really advocate bashing around forums. Education is key.

 

[Taylorboy87]

^^ plus one to mikemann. Don't know how to change, then don't anyhow solder. Solder already say cannot work, you have just screwed yourself by voiding the 'guarantee' to exchange the product.

 

[rottenramone]

i just went to sim lim tower to buy 100k pots.... its 60 cents a piece.

forgot the shop name, but its on the 3rd floor.

 

[edder]

sim lim pots are different from guitar pots.

It terms of feel and most importantly taper. Simlim pots are 99.99% linear taper while you'd need audio taper for guitars.

 

[rottenramone]

ah ok. that 100k was for me expression pedal.

 

[glblues]

Taylorboy87

i think you are assuming my friend is a beginner.

he has been dabbling in guitar electronics and been a pro musician since 1987. i wouldnt call that a novice.

 

[glblues]

mikemann,

so you would defend your position for a measley $15 pot (which is ex btw) and lose a long-time 15-year customer?
if i was a store-owner and not knowing whether he overheated it and damaged it in the process, (assuming here that the customer is the complete idiot), wouldnt it make better business sense to scrounge up a used but working pot, it wouldnt cost the store any money and keep his business?
my point is not about whether the pot situation is right or wrong, but that EVEN for such a small item, that store loyalty meant nothing and that they preferred to lose $100 every month.

what i am doing is not "bashing."
pple can choose to write about good service and the stores gets credit.
and when bad service comes around, it serves as a warning to others of deals gone bad so that nobody else is messed over.

 

[mikemann]

Maybe I should not use the term bashing here. Hmmm..... I think whining would be a better choice.

In business, principle matters a lot of the times, most of the times cannot compromise on that.

If the person who served your friend is not the boss, maybe he has to follow the rules strictly, if not the $15 could be coming from his own pocket or worst his ass will be on the line. (army lesson)

If the person who served your friend is the boss and your friend has developed a long relationship already. Maybe the boss is signalling to your friend that he don't value your friend's business (get the hint??).

If the boss not know your friend well, of course, store policy rules. (tough)

Just maybe your friend went in at the wrong time where everyone working inside is busy and bad mood. (tough)

Or just maybe you could be right. (cough...cough..)

Actually it does not really matter, cause it's between him and the shop. If he has a grouse, he should be the one who is posting. As far as I can see, it's strictly between he and the shop's private business.

Am I hitting the nail on the head already?

 

[almondx]

I have had success with warranty work from Davis on a guitar nut, though that may be beacuse I've got it covered under the manufacturer of which Davis is a dealer.

What I would advise is to be a smart shopper - make sure the item is in 100% satisfactory condition before laying down cash for it. Davis is acting out of their own interest, and so is your friend, but I feel sorry for him since he has supported Davis for quite awhile. Luck is tough on his side because he cannot prove that the pot was faulty before he soldered it on, and on this grounds Davis has every right to reject him. Pros do make mistakes too, though imho I believe the pot was already faulty beforehand cause it's damn hard to fry a quality pot.

I doubt this is a bashing or whining thread too, since there are elements of facts between sentences and some glaringly obvious. However it's totally dependent on the intelligence of the reader to grasp them, which is indeed mutually exclusive from one reader to the next.

 

[soft]

glblues, you might wanna check with your friend if he is ok with you posting his story in SOFT. Coz his reputation is at stake here.

This is the reason why I do not encourage SOFTies to post on behalf of others. We might not in the best position to answer for the other party.

 

[optisailor2002]

well, i can see why Davis is doing this because think about it. no offence, but 100 dollars a month isn't exactly a lot for a shop that is the SOLE distributor of PRS and Marshall. unless your friend is an avid collector of PRS guitars or Marshall amps, i doubt that they are gonna remember this friend of yours at all.

besides, personally, i have experienced much examplary "Singapore service" that is often boasted by our dear leaders in Davis. the stuff there are really very nice, besides the frequent black face and unhappy attitude. [/sarcasm]

moral of the story? shop keepers, if you have regular customers who spend only small amounts of money each time they come, even if they are regular, forget it, it isnt worth developing a relationship with them or even remember them. why go for the small fry when there are big fishes to catch?

with all these negative comments and feedbacks, do note that there is actually good service in Davis. Janet there is one that treats customers in a very nice way and makes sure that customers are comfortable trying out whatever they are trying out (be it amps or guitars). so if you got any of the other staff there, tough luck man (unless you got the ka-ching).

 

[80s_people]

id say its reasonable for them to deny him a refund because he neglected his rights of examining the goods first before acceptance, its standard practice to make sure the parts are working before installation. Surely davis wouldnt wanna refund to every single one of those who come back to them with the same demands, they'll be making a lost. this stuff has been in the legislation for a good reason i believe.

 

[glblues]

In business, principle matters a lot of the times, most of the times cannot compromise on that.

true. but there is also something known as knowing when to relax and using common sense.
imho, it is a stupid way to lose customers. think about it, how much does a silly pot cost to keep a customer?
there is no slippery slope argument here. it is not as though they have 3,000 pots being returned a month forcing them to close down because of losses. (/rollseyes)

If the person who served your friend is not the boss, maybe he has to follow the rules strictly, if not the $15 could be coming from his own pocket or worst his ass will be on the line. (army lesson)

If the person who served your friend is the boss and your friend has developed a long relationship already. Maybe the boss is signalling to your friend that he don't value your friend's business (get the hint??).

If the boss not know your friend well, of course, store policy rules. (tough)

Just maybe your friend went in at the wrong time where everyone working inside is busy and bad mood. (tough)

again, all what you have said only lends itself to reinforcing the fact that Singaporeans accept poor customer service:
accept the rules. tough luck bud.
i am in a bad mood. tough luck bud.
you may have patronised the store for 15 years but i dont remember you, so tough luck bud.
the whole attitude that the customer is always wrong and we should be lucky that you get a service does not breed store loyalty.
if the boss doesnt value my friend's business, then it is again very bad business etiquette. one person tells another, and in this case, i am using his example as a further discussion on the net leading to even more bad publicity.

Or just maybe you could be right. (cough...cough..)

Actually it does not really matter, cause it's between him and the shop. If he has a grouse, he should be the one who is posting. As far as I can see, it's strictly between he and the shop's private business.

Am I hitting the nail on the head already?

do i sense sarcasm?

yes it is between him and the store, and he has chosen not to patronise Davis anymore. BUT what i am doing on the other hand is using this real-life example to promote a discussion on guitar store behaviour.
so you are attempting to hit the nail on the head, but i do not see what you are trying to get at.

to soft (glblues, you might wanna check with your friend if he is ok with you posting his story in SOFT. Coz his reputation is at stake here.)

there is no reputation at stake here. i have protected his identity and aside from the initial telling of the story, EVERY viewpoint from me is solely mine, not his.

to optisailor2002 (100 dollars a month isn't exactly a lot for a shop that is the SOLE distributor of PRS and Marshall. unless your friend is an avid collector of PRS guitars or Marshall amps, i doubt that they are gonna remember this friend of yours at all.) (why go for the small fry when there are big fishes to catch?)

so in short, be nice to all the first class and business class travellers and screw the economy class passengers?
if we are talking about busines principles like what mikemann pointed out, is this not a clear case of favouritism and acting out of principle because someone has more money?
i do believe that customer service is about treating all customers relatively equally whether you are a rich businessman buying a $10,000 PRS or a poor schoolkid forking out half his pocketmoney for guitar strings.
essentially what you are saying is treat the rich good and screw the working class. And i believe there are many softies out there who are not rich.
the point is - if they have neglected to remember a 15-year loyal customer because he did not purchase a PRS, if this happens over time, it will just be a loss of steady income. there IS a thing out there known as customer appreciation for past and future business and it is very much part of good business practises.
a more friendly way of dealing with the situation would be saying:
"we don't take returns on a soldered pot and he should test it next time before installing." then give him a new one just to keep him, a loyal customer.
as i said, a pot costs nothing. and whether the pot was his wrong or the store's wrong is a trivial matter compared to losing a loyal customer.
though i agree with you that Janet among all of the family attempts at some semblence of service.

i know why all this bad service exists. it is because guitar stores have sole dealership over certain brands, so the business will come through without adding the customer service.
lucky for us, there are parallel imports and online stores.

 

[soft]

Relationship between shop owner and customer is like husband and wife. If they have been together for 15 years, a heated argument should not lead to a divorce. We as bystander should encourage them to "big problem become small problem, small problem become no problem".

Let's be a big happy family.

 

[sanity22]

Hi. I read over over & over again from this issue. My point of view is we as a consumer, in future we should check everything before buying. To protect us from any loss ot dis-avantage.

Quite sometimes ago, i lost my floyd rose whammy bar & i went to Davis. Janet, i can say she is a nice lady who really serve me in a positive attiude.

For the old citizen, i really have no comment abt him. Many Many Years ago, i bought my first samick accoustic which cost abt 120bucks from him & i tested the guitar just less then 1 mins before buying. He appoarched me & say, You tested very long. I smile & kind of ignored him. He is always like that till now.

If you like somethings reasonable in his shop, QC before purchasing. If not, Stay away from the old citizen.

I agree what soft says: big problem become small problem, small problem become no problem". Let's be a happy family.

 

[HarrisonYeo]

eh isit even possible to check if a pot works before buying?

 

[spinofdoom]

Erm ok.

I'm considering buying a PRS SE model frm Davis in maybe few mths tiime.

Who is this janet?I think since so many ppl give her good feedback then she would give quite good service right

Is she the old lady or the young lady with the accent