ahh!! jazz! oMgZzZ!!
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pf
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If you dunno how it goes...then how come you know that its a like a "V7alt, flat11, tonic"?
If you dunno how to form a "V7alt, flat11", how do you know it is something like that?
And what's a cadence? I wiki it up but I don't understand the write up.
Haha...the blind leading the blind. C'mon guys, we need help here!
If you dunno how to form a "V7alt, flat11", how do you know it is something like that?
And what's a cadence? I wiki it up but I don't understand the write up.
Haha...the blind leading the blind. C'mon guys, we need help here!
pianomankris
New member
Cadence - The movement form harmonic tension to harmonic resolution.
The tritone is what makes the V7 chord sound 'unstable' (it is the most dissonant interval in a diatonic major scale). The tritone occurs between the 4th and 7th degrees of a diatonic major scale; the only place this interval is found in a standard chord is in the V7 chord. (e.g. in C major scale the tritone will be B and F (4th and 7th degrees). This is found in a G7 (V7) chord (G B D F))
'V7 alt' chord - a dominant 7 chord with an 'altered' note e.g. #5, #9 etc etc
The tritone is what makes the V7 chord sound 'unstable' (it is the most dissonant interval in a diatonic major scale). The tritone occurs between the 4th and 7th degrees of a diatonic major scale; the only place this interval is found in a standard chord is in the V7 chord. (e.g. in C major scale the tritone will be B and F (4th and 7th degrees). This is found in a G7 (V7) chord (G B D F))
'V7 alt' chord - a dominant 7 chord with an 'altered' note e.g. #5, #9 etc etc
Chord tones come from the scale. In this case the V7 tells us it's the dominant scale. In Cmaj, the dominant scale starts on G. You can call it mixolydian if you want to sound techy.
G A B C D E F G A B C D E
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - 9 - 11 - 13
1,3,5 and 7 are the chord tones.
The numbers above 8 are called extensions ( 9, 11, and 13). They are added to the chord to give it colouring. Eg G7add9 (which is usually just written G9) is 1 3 5 7 9 ( G B D F A).
It's confusing using 9 instead of 2 since they are the same note. The reason is the numbers below 8 are usually suspensions ( 2, 4 and 6 ). These are used to replace certain chord tone above. eg. G7sus2 will have the 2 note (A) instead of the 3 note (B) so it's G A D F.
8, 10 and 12 are never used.
You can make any of the extensions sharp or flat. eg. G7#9 This means a G7 chord with a sharp 9th added.
If you just want to specify a G7 with some sharp or flat extensions you write G7alt. It's up to the player to decide which ones to play. So you could add b9,#9,b11,#11,b13,#13.
A flat 11th is the same as a major 3rd. It's a bit strange to write it like that. Perhaps they are trying to get the dissonance of a #9 (minor 3rd) against the b11 (major 3rd). Guitarist might know that from the hendrix chord; E7#9.
A easy sub you can do when you see a G7alt chord is to a C#7 instead.
For a G7 chord you have G B D F and the #9, #11, #13 will be A#, C# and E#. The b9 will be G#.
C#7 has C# E# G# B# so it covers most of the extensions nicely and it has lots of tension that will be resolved when you move to the tonic chord Cmaj.
G A B C D E F G A B C D E
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - 9 - 11 - 13
1,3,5 and 7 are the chord tones.
The numbers above 8 are called extensions ( 9, 11, and 13). They are added to the chord to give it colouring. Eg G7add9 (which is usually just written G9) is 1 3 5 7 9 ( G B D F A).
It's confusing using 9 instead of 2 since they are the same note. The reason is the numbers below 8 are usually suspensions ( 2, 4 and 6 ). These are used to replace certain chord tone above. eg. G7sus2 will have the 2 note (A) instead of the 3 note (B) so it's G A D F.
8, 10 and 12 are never used.
You can make any of the extensions sharp or flat. eg. G7#9 This means a G7 chord with a sharp 9th added.
If you just want to specify a G7 with some sharp or flat extensions you write G7alt. It's up to the player to decide which ones to play. So you could add b9,#9,b11,#11,b13,#13.
A flat 11th is the same as a major 3rd. It's a bit strange to write it like that. Perhaps they are trying to get the dissonance of a #9 (minor 3rd) against the b11 (major 3rd). Guitarist might know that from the hendrix chord; E7#9.
A easy sub you can do when you see a G7alt chord is to a C#7 instead.
For a G7 chord you have G B D F and the #9, #11, #13 will be A#, C# and E#. The b9 will be G#.
C#7 has C# E# G# B# so it covers most of the extensions nicely and it has lots of tension that will be resolved when you move to the tonic chord Cmaj.
vernplum
New member
I think a minor second sounds 'worse'. The tritone is historically considered most dissonant - it's all a matter of taste
pianomankris
New member
No. The tritone is more dissonant (regardless of how you hear it) as the waveforms between the two notes 'wolf' more then they do with a minor 2nd (the waveforms cross more).
Regardless of taste.
But i know what you mean - the minor 2nd is pretty dissonant. However, theoretically, the tritone has more dissonance.
Regardless of taste.
But i know what you mean - the minor 2nd is pretty dissonant. However, theoretically, the tritone has more dissonance.
Cheez
Moderator
I believe you are asking for chord progressions. Cadence very specifically to a set of 2 chords (as what pianomankris said, although not always tension to resolution) and has very fixed rules (eg V-I, IV-I, I-V, V-vi, ii-V etc etc). So there's really no need for too much consideration in "constructing".
pf
New member
Since you said you're teaching yourself...just buy 2 books.
(1) A jazz book that tells you the popular chord progressions such as Amazon.com: The Jazz Piano Book: Mark Levine: Books
(2) A jazz fake book such as Amazon.com: The Real Book: Sixth Edition: Hal Leonard Corporation: Books
And locate all the chord progressions explained in the jazz theory book in the fake book. Then practice like crazy until you can do it w/o thinking. Apply.
(1) A jazz book that tells you the popular chord progressions such as Amazon.com: The Jazz Piano Book: Mark Levine: Books
(2) A jazz fake book such as Amazon.com: The Real Book: Sixth Edition: Hal Leonard Corporation: Books
And locate all the chord progressions explained in the jazz theory book in the fake book. Then practice like crazy until you can do it w/o thinking. Apply.
since1982
New member
it seems like you're refering to the little melodies (riffs) that jazz pianists throw in here and there..
cadence is something like the puntuations to a piece. you can relate it to a comma, fullstop, etc..
jazz pianists use alot of scales (blues, diatonic, and the really confusing ones like ionian, lydian, etc) when they improvise. it really boils down to a lot of experimenting i think..
pf
New member
Cadence should be a group of chords which creates tension and resolution. Therefore it is like a phrase.
There are certain chords that creates tension and certain chords that would nicely resolve the tension created by those certain chords.
The riffs needs experimenting. But most chord structures are quite fixed and are they are more often than not grouped together for tension and "proper" resolution's sake - which I suppose is the threadsetter's question on how to make it smooth.
That is why I previously suggested to check out the standard jazz chord progressions and see how they are being applied in jazz standards.
There are certain chords that creates tension and certain chords that would nicely resolve the tension created by those certain chords.
The riffs needs experimenting. But most chord structures are quite fixed and are they are more often than not grouped together for tension and "proper" resolution's sake - which I suppose is the threadsetter's question on how to make it smooth.
That is why I previously suggested to check out the standard jazz chord progressions and see how they are being applied in jazz standards.
Cheez
Moderator
Cadence is not a phrase. Actually, it ends a phrase. It is an interval or a set of chords that brings an end to a piece of music/phrase/section. The word "cadence" itself means "a falling". It gives a feel of either "ending" or "continuation" to the end of a section or phrase. Hence it is 2 chords, not a group of chords.
The 4 broad categories of cadences are perfect (V-I), plagal (IV-I), imperfect (ending on V eg ii-V, IV-V, I-V) and interrupted (V to any chords except I - usually vi). You also have some slight alternatives in these categories like Phrygian half cadence etc.
The 4 broad categories of cadences are perfect (V-I), plagal (IV-I), imperfect (ending on V eg ii-V, IV-V, I-V) and interrupted (V to any chords except I - usually vi). You also have some slight alternatives in these categories like Phrygian half cadence etc.
