Vocal EQ settings & soundman communication

[sage]

.. aka that black box at the corner of the studio that you switch on to have your mic work, but have no idea what those other knobs are about.

Anyone wants to contribute with this? What are the general applications on the thingy, to configure, other than volume, and how should you configure it to make sure you sound your best as a vocalist during a jam?



Also, how do you check your sound during live sets? What are your requirements to the soundman before you start your gig?


For those who are new to gigs, I could start off with suggesting that you might want to make sure your voice and the band's music can be heard through the monitors, that are usually at the front of the stage. That's to check whether you can be heard at all or whether you're going pitchy vocally. I guess that's logically the most basic one, but I know some singers here who don't know it.. so er.. I'm just posting this k?

Depending on your style of singing, you might want to add some reverb as well to give the voice some warmth or to smooth it out. You can ask this from the soundman until you're happy with the sound. Other than that I'm afraid I don't know anything else. LOL.

Any suggestions on how to make sure the soundman does his job during the sets?


Shoot your ideas; I know tetra posted a wholeload on another thread.. can copy and paste here or not?

 

[kdash]

http://soft.com.sg/forum/all-about-singing/66552-vocal-stamina-2.html

post #13 by bro tetra might help

alternatively you can wait for him to reply

 

[sage]

Will do, I think this is might be a most sought after thread (especially since most of us are leading into bands as vocalists and have no clue how those things work... me included lol).

Mornin' kdash! :}

 

[kdash]

morning sis sage!

anyway yup this is something that keeps coming up, even within the few days that i've been surfing on soft. maybe when bro tetra and the rest contribute to this thread, we can ask for this to be a sticky.

 

[fgl]

SAGE - u know MY METHOD:mrgreen: ....

 

[Tetragrammaton]

So...here you are! Hehehe!! Sorry was busy the whole day. Only manage to get back on-line at home.

Ok, if you're playing for a gig especially those that are all mic'ed up. I'm sorry to say that you are at the mercy of the soundman. Now a days, you'll see funny people handling the sound system. If the sound guys doesn't like your band, well he can do what he want to the sound system. Or if you get an amateur sound guy...you're in deep trouble. Only luck will prove otherwise.

But in a situation that you're playing 'raw'. That means basing on all the instruments amplified without a mic up on the drums for instance in a jamming studio. Only the mic is hook up to the PA. Maybe the keyboard at sometimes if there's not enough amplifier. The purpose of jamming in a studio is to practice as a band. Everyone should hear one another. You don't need to blast the instruments until the vocals strain his or her throat. Simply, if you come out of the studio and you can hear that hissing sound inside your ear...that shows you're playing too loud.

Ok back to the adjustment on your microphones settings. I'm just refering to basic setup. First of all, you should see a Master volume on the side. Then you'll see the channel 1,2,3, etc. Some model has an equilizer on left and right. Setting this will determine your main equilisation of the system on left speaker and right speaker. On the individual channel you'll see high, mid, low, gain(volume), effects and pan if there's any depending on the model. You master volume should always be higher than your channel volume. About the high, mid, low are equilizer for individual channel settings. Everyone have their own preference so I can't pin down what to set. Some models have effect too. If you see this, there will be the main effect setting somewhere near the main volume too. On the individual channel, you may want to have a lower effect on it so your setting should be lower. The Pan knob is to control left or right output. Normally set to centre so both speakers should be heard.

Hope that helped for a start!

Saluti!
Tetragrammaton

 

[sage]

fgl>> yes... i know your method.... and i don't want to remember it............... it still haunts me...............


"at the mercy of the soundman"

Oh hell yeah. Any tips on how to get these buggers to actually do their work? You could get everything perfectly done up during soundcheck, and for some reason, during the set itself, the soundman's like a dead fish with swollen chicken-backside ears. I was so desperate to get decent sound for mic (at least once in my gigging days damn it!!) that I even considered socialising with those buggers.

Damn man those were some useful tips for the eq settings bit. At least I know what's what now....
How do we adjust the effects settings tho? Just for a lil reverb at least... I tried manhandling the effects knob (I assumed effects = reverb) and I donno what happen, there was a bloody chorus behind my voice. I mean.. it was cool lah, but I'm not doing Enya...

But thanks for the post tetra! And yeah it would def help to get this stickied, but I'm tired of trying to contact the mods to do it. Donno how many times I've tried, it's like my pms are lost in the twilight zone or something...

 

[soft]

During performance, concentrate on singing well.

- Close to perfect pitching.
- Good projection.
- Don't sing certain part sooooo soft and then suddenly scream/shout.
- Keep in time with the music.
- Learn to handle the microphone. Not too far from your mouth. But please don't put your mouth on the mic.
- Entertain the crowd.
- Know where are the monitor/FOH speakers, don't point the microphone at them.
- If singing halfway and the mic doesn't work, use the other mic on stage. Don't keep singing and look victimised.
- Never throw microphone in the air or swing them by the cable.

During sound check

- Make sure you can hear yourself and the important instrument that help you keep time/pitch on the monitor speakers.
- Move around the stage and make sure you still can hear yourself
- Let the sound engineer know if you like to have some reverb/delays for effect

What you hear on stage is from the monitor speakers. It is different from the front-of-house speakers.

During practise session

- Keep the EQ flat (meaning zero), this is your voice straight from the system without any coloring.
- Practise your singing, microphone position until your voice sound good without any EQ.


* be nice to everyone on the set, in return, they will be nice to you.

 

[sage]

Thanks for the tips mr softie! And... thanks for the stickies!

"- Don't sing certain part sooooo soft and then suddenly scream/shout."
Yknow that's a good point... I generally sing softer in some parts and louder on the rest, but I really can't help it cos I'm doing some soft backgrounds and breathy talking parts.. :/ And I'm too shy to project during soundcheck sometimes :X Urgh I never thought about that..


"What you hear on stage is from the monitor speakers. It is different from the front-of-house speakers."

How so?

 

[kdash]

"What you hear on stage is from the monitor speakers. It is different from the front-of-house speakers."

How so?

what happens is that on stage, the band people listen to themselves via monitor speakers while the audience/crowd listens to what's coming out of the front-of-house speakers. usually the different band members will request to the sound engineer which instruments they want to hear more on their respective monitor speakers, rather than to hear everything. so the sound engineer will tweak and adjust the volumes of each instrument/mic on each monitor speaker.

eg, the lead singer may want to hear more of the drums and keyboard/guitar, so that he/she can keep in tune and in beat. meanwhile the drummer may want to hear the bass and the lead singer's voice more, so that he can sync with both the bass and the singer. these are personal preferences, so it's up to the respective band members. also it depends on song genre.

just my 2 cent's worth, hope it helps! and please correct me if i'm wrong!

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Thanks for the tips mr softie! And... thanks for the stickies!

"- Don't sing certain part sooooo soft and then suddenly scream/shout."
Yknow that's a good point... I generally sing softer in some parts and louder on the rest, but I really can't help it cos I'm doing some soft backgrounds and breathy talking parts.. :/ And I'm too shy to project during soundcheck sometimes :X Urgh I never thought about that..


"What you hear on stage is from the monitor speakers. It is different from the front-of-house speakers."

How so?

Particularly in musical terminology, there must be dynamics at some areas. Like for instance you may see on your musical scores like p,f,mp,mf,ff,pp. You don't play straight volume all the way. That shows how the event of the song being played upon. So for your case, if you know where's the climatic changes should be it is alright. I think James is trying to say that some people aren't consistent as they are unsure or not confident enough with his or her singing.

The monitor speakers as it's called are for the musicians on stage to monitor how they sound. The settings are different from the main speakers out for the crowd. A good sound engineer, would know how to balance the output speakers to be sounded optimum. But sometimes a good sound engineer can't help much on the sound of the band too. Example if the band is blasting on their amplifiers, in turn he will lower down the volume at the mixer. Hence, the mixing quality plus the raw amp output became unstablely unbalance. So, it goes both way. That's why the soundcheck is very important. Musicians will set their volume ideally on their amplifiers. At the same time, the sound engineer will see what setting suits the band best. So when time to play, you just stick to the volume. On the mixing side, if the some instrument volume got drown due to some dynamics on other instruments the sound engineer will push up the volume accordingly.


Saluti!
Tetrgrammaton

 

[sage]

I don't know what my band does and stuff, but sometimes I know they like to play loud; could it be possible that them playing loud has affected the mixing on my vocals?

Die lah, very useful info there but I'd need to check this out on our next gig...

 

[soft]

wrt the soft and loud aka dynamic, it should be felt rather than actual level(spl).

Just like when we watch a movie, whenever the actor/actress are whispering, we still can hear their speech clearly.

In pop music context, when singing soft passage, move closer to the microphone. Make sure that there is enough signal going into the microphone. The audience will still feel that you are singing softly because of the expression and delivery.

During loud passage, move slightly away from the microphone or else the signal will be too hot and cause the sound to distort.

In a perfect audio setup, there will be this gadget call "Compressor" that will help to even out the dynamic so that it will sound comfortable to the audience. Seldom see them in used at local gigs.

 

[sage]

How is this compressor thing used? On stage plugged with the mic?

 

[kdash]

wow, i thought compressors are only used with guitars and basses. it's too seldom until i've never seen it before.

 

[soft]

Compressors are for controlling the dynamic range of any audio signal. For vocals, usually it is controlled by the sound engineer. Some digital mixer has this built in. Some engineers like to use outboard ones for easier control.

Compressors / Limiters | Sweetwater.com

 

[blueprintstudios]

hello peoples, I think this's one of my 1st or 2nd time posting in the Vocal department. sage invited me.

well first of all for those who go jamming studio and rehearse got problems : read this thread

to answer sage :

>> .. aka that black box at the corner of the studio that you switch on to have your mic work...

a preamp/mixer/powered mixer etc whatever you call it, it's like a guitar amp to a guitar. so it's a Preamp to a microphone for vocals.but live on stage, you seldom (or never) have access to the mixer cos that's what the live soundman is for.

but if we're talking in terms of jamstudio, where you can tweak the EQs etc. always make sure you remember (use your handphone take photo) of the default setting. so in case if it keep feedbacking and mess up, you know how to set back without the owner on your ass.

there's not much to EQ though usually , low/mids/highs. unless there's "Q" (parametric EQ) then you can flexibly control the inbetweens of mids like "low mids/mids/high mids". too much EQ may cause feedback if the PA speakers and mics are all in the wrong place etc. I'll be typing this information on the jamming studio setting thread cos currently there's a misconception about "guitar mids drowning the vocals etc".

>> Also, how do you check your sound during live sets?
I've never performed on stage before...except for my wedding duet. but I know for sure this will help :

read the following on stage
Tongue Twisters > Example tongue twisters

and say "mic test mic test 1,2,3. testing testicles to test the mic test.mic test stop."

and then "fuzzyduck, duckyfuzz, fuzzyduck, duckyfuzz" really fast. try not to say "duzzyf*ck" or "f&ckyduzz" heh

and then "tragedy strategy tragedy strategy tragedy strategy tragedy strategy"

and finally say "new album of mariah carey e=mc square, i would like to ask a mariah carey question mariah carey question mariah carey question mariah carey question mariah carey question" really fast 5 times.

then sound check your song that has your lowest vocal pitch range + highest vocal pitch range. the slow soft singing songs and the active high energy singing songs. you don't have that much time to sound check so do like 1verse 1 chorus of each.

the tongue twisters is for the soundman to control your sibilances etc and warm up your mouth's pronounciation and make a fool out of yourself also so you remain humble. have fun.

>>> What are your requirements to the soundman before you start your gig?
make sure you can hear yourself. and get a friend to hear from the audience , make sure he/she hears everything clearly. sometimes like what james(soft) says to be nice to everyone. that's true. but most of the live soundman I've met have some kind of "I IS elite human being" attitude. so yes you are at the mercy of the soundman. you can only ask nicely "sound man I cannot hear myself on the monitors" or "soundman I receive sms from my audience say cannot hear the vocals on the PA speakers."

>> you might want to add some reverb as well to give the voice some warmth or to smooth it out.
this may work nicely for slow paced songs. but too heavy reverb on fast paced songs will sound weird.

>> Any suggestions on how to make sure the soundman does his job during the sets?
buy him a redbull. it's a long tiring day per event.

80¢ worth


oh yeah I forgot something ,compressors! yes!
during sound check don't sing with your mouth on the mic. that makes it VERY upclose/loud and the live sound engineer will have to lower your vocals to the max and you'll find yourself trying to swallow the mic during the song just to get heard. cos you sabotaged yourself.

compressors, as you can see performers professional performers , when they hit very intimate and whispery / low notes , they bring the mic close or yes they put their mouth almost on the mic to get heard. then when they start singing the chorus or the climax of the song , they pull themselves / or the mic away from their mouth. that way, when your voice sings LOUD, your mic is FAR, when your voice sings SOFT, your mic is UPCLOSE. and that is DIY human "compression". practise that and you don't need to buy any fancy compressors that makes you look more noob than professional. besides. compressors is the live soundman's job. not yours.

 

[sage]

and then "fuzzyduck, duckyfuzz, fuzzyduck, duckyfuzz" really fast. try not to say "duzzyf*ck" or "f&ckyduzz" heh

I think there's a high chance of me falling victim to this tongue twister lol.

Thanks for the tip and responding to the invite! Looks like a hell lot of useful things to cycle through, I hope the vocalists here can benefit from them when they need help on it..

I'm gonna read this properly when I get back, that's a whole load to think through for noobhead like me

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Compressors is a good tool for sound engineer. But as stated, yes it's the sound engineer stuffs to worry about.

When I used to manage sound engineering, all of our system comes with the compressor, delay, chorus, etc. in a rack form. The positional of mics are very important. Likewise, in a jamming studio proper tweaking of the mic settings can hinder to too many unnecessary feedback. The 'bouncing' of sound within confined space makes it more easier to have feedbacks. That's why beside adjusting the sound system, the musicians must also know how to balance the sound so that everyone can be heard. As stated by blueprint, a self 'compression' effect is also possible for vocalist. So particularly in a jamming studio, the basic will just work for everyone provided everyone plays their part. A human voice will have no match to an electric guitar equipt with distortion. As a guitarist myself, I am very particular in sound balancing especially in a practice studio.

Saluti!
Tetragrammaton

 

[sage]

Thanks for the tips guys! Oh boy. Lots to experiment on the next jam...