Pay to play...or not?

[trippyfactory]

It just a matter you wanna pay or not.

Yes! Exactly right! It's a matter of choice, isn't it, Kong Wee?

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

looks like we're not talking in the same frequency, are we talking about paying for auditioning for a competitioon or paying for a performance at a gig?

 

[trippyfactory]

Audition to perform

looks like we're not talking in the same frequency, are we talking about paying for auditioning for a competitioon or paying for a performance at a gig?

Correction (it's neither of your description): It's paying to audition for a performance.

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

oh, aye.. no wonder what we say don't connect..

yea might be different in that case.. depending on the profile of the performance, and plus many points if it is outdoors.

if it's a performance in a small to medium sized club in some private event then no way, but if it's a public performance outdoors in some good area like outside cathay or cineleisure then . some bands who're starting up and are serious should consider paying for the exposure. as long as tickets are not involved that is! =D

 

[1mband]

It's been decades, that organisers kept putting their attention on the bands/performers/fans to get some/all fundings. Such focus had not shifted. Why not work harder to explore getting sponsors, advertisement fees, and other means, and turn your attention away from the bands?

Question back to gig organisers is: why not you pay the bands who are going to play for you?
Change this topic to: Get paid to play, or not? (from the bands' point of view)

And from gigs to gigs, we keep seeing the same old cycle:
- organisers look/audition for bands
- found some suitable ones
- get the gig going
And cycle repeats and repeats, from one year into another, and into another.
From a gathering of organisers and bands, everything dissolves into nothing.
And then someone start the cycle, again, and again.

If you had found a good list of bands, gather them under your umbrella.
Form good relationships, be stable and responsible.
So that whenever you organise a gig, just pull out this list of bands.

Of course, bands come and go.
Keep the good and long-lasting ones.
Balance the population, when some left, then, look for replacements.

Do your seasonal line of gigs.
You keep the bands happy by giving them gigs, building their fan-base, and building your gigs' fan-base.
You may lose out some $$$ for a start (known as "investments").
But if you do it well, you will yield the profits you deserve.

Of course, everything in this world is easier-said-than-done.
So, who's gonna do it?

 

[trippyfactory]

yea might be different in that case.. depending on the profile of the performance, and plus many points if it is outdoors.

if it's a performance in a small to medium sized club in some private event then no way, but if it's a public performance outdoors in some good area like outside cathay or cineleisure then . some bands who're starting up and are serious should consider paying for the exposure. as long as tickets are not involved that is! =D

If it's an outdoor concert (i.e cathay or cineleisure), how can the musicians and organizers get monetary returns from ticket sales since the gig is "free for all"?

How many corporate sponsors are there willing to offer cash to support the youth, where there's no guarantee Return of Investment (ROI)?

It's true you get exposure performing in public area with huge number in human traffic, but most of the people just happens to be around the area doing shopping or hanging out and the band just happens to be there performing.

Law of coincidence, right?

As a performer with pride, don't you wish you have people coming to see your band and listen to your works instead of just "passing by"?

The size of the venue does not matter, the most important thing is you get real ticketted audiences who are willing to pay to watch the performing bands

...and not just passer-bys who hears a familiar cover tune and IMMEDIATELY walks off when a bands play their original compositions.

 

[trippyfactory]

It's been decades, that organisers kept putting their attention on the bands/performers/fans to get some/all fundings. Such focus had not shifted. Why not work harder to explore getting sponsors, advertisement fees, and other means, and turn your attention away from the bands?

1mband, you've got some good stuff to say and I truly appreciate and admire that.

Firstly, I repeat, Trippy Factory pays $20 per head (maximum 5 piece) for performing bands. It's not a lot. But we pay.

I agree (with 2 horns up) that seeking appropriate sponsors and advertising fees is necessary.

But let's be realistic: It's not like we are promoting a big band that attracts thousands of audience (i.e. Iron Maiden), we are not promoting "high culture" events like ballet or classical music where big banks like Barclays, UBS, Credit Suisse would throw in money because the audience are their target clients.

It's pop culture. Catchment areas in pop culture are full of young people who are mostly working part-time and earning by the hour or still under allowance from their parents.

You can argue that when time passes, they will grow up and will have their own spending power...but who's to guarantee that they will still be into pop culture and willing to support that 10, 20 years down the road?

The furthest Trippy Factory has achieved is through sponsorship in kind from various music retailers (i.e. freebies to give away, sponsoring venues/equipment) and we are thankful. Very thankful.

Back to your suggestions for keeping a pool of talents: I agree it's an excellent idea. In fact, that's what are doing. For the past 10 years.

Unfortunately, law of human nature suggests that people change. Pride gets in the way (some of them think they are bloody rock stars), band members come and go, band dissolves, new band arises, priorities, family commitments, career commitments, change in visions...etc..

The "cycle" you have mentioned is inevitable. There are a few veteran bands who have bitten the bullet and trying to maintain the same vision - but unfortunately, not many of them left.

Some of the bands that Trippy Factory had the honor are working with, have made a name for themselves in the regional/international scene. Although some of them may have gotten "fame" in their heads, but most of them remain humble and faithful.

Trippy Factory has been doing this for the past 10 years, we found out about a truth. One of the most effective ways to promote your band is through direct selling. If you are not going to sell for yourselves, who will?

 

[atapchi]

dont waste time play show in singapore...no point

 

[fgl]

dont waste time play show in singapore...no point

sigh.... speaking as a muso who gets paid to play many club dates & corporate gigs .... with the attitude of the majority Singaporean audiences sometimes .... I tend to agree with you ..... I always feel like ai yah "play the gig , take the money and f** *** after that and hang out with kakis ...

then sometimes ... we kena that really kick ass solid gig that just "rekindles" the fire.... which makes me feel its all worthwhile .. so I still say to new musos - go out and give your dreams a go ... but keep your feet firmly on the ground ...

 

[fgl]

uth. One of the most effective ways to promote your band is through direct selling. If you are not going to sell for yourselves, who will?

Thats one thing I am in 100% agreement with you beb ...

 

[dodgethis]

P.s. Business was mentioned twice in your comment. No hint of mockery or sarcasm intended. Peace.

Idealism and optimism has no place in reality. Offense completely intended.

 

[fyan]

dont waste time play show in singapore...no point

what the f..? dont like that la bro..less positive comments to yourself please? dont think that was necessary/ just my 2c

 

[fyan]

im on the neutral side. but then its sad for the bands who paid but didnt get through the audition dont ya think? mm :/

 

[ヒロト]

dont waste time play show in singapore...no point

its because of people like you, the singapore Music industry will never prosper...
everyones mindset is...Singapore bands cmi...have you seriously taken the time to listen to one?
I know theres not many good bands out there..but who started out damn good?

​

 

[1mband]

You guys need to know some facts about Trippy Factory. The man behind TF still has that great passion for metal, and always working hard to put up gigs. Seriously, i respect this.

Yeah bro. It's not easy. It takes both sides (organisers and bands) to make it happen.

As for sponsors, put it this way, which company actually bother about promoting music? If the whole event is about promoting the company and its products, the bands are simply there as a more expensive form of entertainment, than to play CD music thru' the PA.

Until a breakthru' comes in crafting a strategy to convince sponsors, well, we'll still be paying to play, as in, organisers pay, and bands pay too. It's difficult to achieve a win-win for music business in this country.

Haiz...

 

[trippyfactory]

Idealism and optimism has no place in reality. Offense completely intended.

Haha, I like your candidness. But I beg to differ on your statement - Idealism and optimism is a matter of perspective.

You seem bitter. Cheer up!

 

[trippyfactory]

im on the neutral side. but then its sad for the bands who paid but didnt get through the audition dont ya think? mm :/

Objectivity as a focus: has the band reflected on why are they not selected? Have they bothered to have the guts to face reality and ask the "judges" on the reason?

 

[trippyfactory]

dont waste time play show in singapore...no point

Ah, this statement is not cool. Maybe you should carry on being a bedroom jammer and only the man in the mirror will be your only audience.

Sad,
TF

 

[trippyfactory]

everyones mindset is...Singapore bands cmi...have you seriously taken the time to listen to one?
I know theres not many good bands out there..but who started out damn good?

Ah, finally a few things we can agree on.

Non-pay-to-play bands could consider performing in their respective schools, JC, Poly or their local Cc or perhaps through the *Scape confession series to perform for free with no obligations.

But bands who have bigger aspirations to share the same stage with the bigger boys in a "higher profile" gig, would need to attain a certain level of musicality, showmanship and most importantly and healthy business mind to expand their fan base.

Some of them do that by rehearsing hard, going to every possible audition, actively telling people about their bands, actively selling their merchandises and the tickets to friends and family to their shows or even organize their own shows.

Young / Amateur bands should stay in the jam studio to go through an incubation period - and when they are ready to kick ass. They WILL kick ass. Can't hurry such things.

If the non-pay-to-play folks would like to remain status quo, it's is highly likely that they will remain as a hobbist and simply...not progress.

Please challenge me if you have other thoughts in your mind. It'll be good to see it from the other side of the fence.

Singapore band CAN MAKE IT! Lunarin's latest effort Duae is one hell of a masterpiece.

 

[trippyfactory]

As for sponsors, put it this way, which company actually bother about promoting music? If the whole event is about promoting the company and its products, the bands are simply there as a more expensive form of entertainment, than to play CD music thru' the PA.

Until a breakthru' comes in crafting a strategy to convince sponsors, well, we'll still be paying to play, as in, organisers pay, and bands pay too. It's difficult to achieve a win-win for music business in this country.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, 1mband. Appreciate that, kindly.

Any company who wishes to sponsor and promote music, or any other commodity for that matter, has only one thing in their minds: RETURN OF INVESTMENTS (ROI).

If having a famous face like Olivia Ong to sing a few bossa nova tunes and take a 5 mins break telling the audience how great XXX product is - people will remember. They might not buy it there and then, but they will remember Olivia Ong said that XXX product kicks ass and may buy in the future.

The owner of XXX product will gladly pump in cash to sponsor the gig, just because we have a famous face promoting their product in a gig.

While we are being independent bands and organizers (with no famous faces like Olivia Ong), we must watch out for each other and help each other out.

Here's the formular:

Organizers provide bands a place to perform with great sound system and gears.
Selected Bands for the gig bring in the crowd (ticketted crowd preferred)
When the crazy crowd is roaring, the bands feed off the energy from the crowd = bands have kick ass time.
The bands get paid, the organizers break even = another killer show in the future.

I choose not be a part of the "say no to pay to play" movement: it's because of movements like this, which retards (slows down) the whole progress of the growth in the Singapore scene.

Trippy Factory is not trying to "earn" money from the participating bands, we are trying to educate aspiring bands that we will strive to find funds other sources, TOGETHER.

How does organizing free gigs and allowing amateur bands to gain exposure, while having a good time on stage at the organizer's expense help the scene to grow?

It's a win-lose situation.

To all the die-hard believers that saying NO to pay to play is the way to go, I can only give you my blessings and wish you the best.