"Yes sir, I play the guitar. Therefore I'm a guitarist/instructor."

[djasli]

Hello everyone. my name is djasli. some of you might know me. if you don't, count your lucky stars....

Always wanted to sign on to SOFT for ages. Finally, I did. Since I'm here, let me pose you a question:

So, I have been browsing thru the various threads here and I happened to be going thru the Teacher available forum. Let me tell you, it's an eye opener. Pardon me, I don't mean to be rude, but it looks like everyone thinks they can teach.... which they, in all probabilities, could. (How hard is it to pick-up chord-shapes, say?) However, are the instructors imparting the "correct", for lack of a better word, knowledge to their students? Again, I am not demeaning anyone, I am just curious, is all...., please don't come after me with your (electric)ax and screaming murder....lol.

So, my question is: IMO, would you take lessons from just about anyone? Or, you would examine his/her credentials, knowledge, background etc? What qualities would you look out for in you selecting a particular instructor? His chops? His abilities to shred? his in-depth knowledge? flashiness?

For me, teaching music is like taking up a new language. You just don't learn to speak it. You'd learn the words(harmony), the sentences(cadences) and the structures(rhythm and pacing). Once you know that, you apply them by speaking it. And praciticing speaking it in as many lingos(musical styles) as possible. Do I makes sense?....lol

Thoughts anyone?

 

[fuzztremecho]

interesting...hmmmm..to be a music teacher,must have at least grade 5 i think..

 

[ShredCow]

Take a teacher when you see that you can steal ideas off him and get inspired.

His technical abilities, songwriting skills, flashy showmanship or what have you...

If you can't learn from him, what's the point?
If after a lesson, you don't find yourself yearning to get back and practice, what's the point?

That's all I would want from a teacher, really.

Therefore, no. I wouldn't take lessons from just about anybody. To me, both points mentioned above are not exclusive. Both or nothing... and I find, personally, a little hard to get someone who has both, and even when I do find someone like that, its pretty much say... 3 - 5 lessons? Then I'm off to develop the ideas I've stolen.

 

[djasli]

Some good points, Shredcow.

Teachers guide. Students practise. IMO, that's what I'd do. So it is teacher's responsibility to ensure that what they teach is 'correct'. agree? most semipro/amateur(?) guitarists i encountered during the course of my career are lacking in knowledge and in their sense of history. They can play, but not much else.


Being an instructor yourself, would you say that we ourselves need to know what we are teaching? else, the standards of local guitaring will always be behind, say, the US? being trained in the US myself, i can safely says the dudes there know their music and more articulate in expressing their music. i venture that this is because they know their music, not just guitaring, and the knowledge to back it up? Or maybe it is their music in the first place?

no doubt, the avaiabilty of materials on the internet nowadays are loads better reference that when i first started where cassetes tapes are the norm. or maybe that's the problem - people learnt in the privacy of their bedroom, not under the void-decks anymore, where I first started....lol. no more jamming, you know?

just my thoughts.

 

[fuzztremecho]

bro djasli

interesting point
my first instrument was a trumpet in military band in sec school..the theory was then applied to guitar playing..
in my years of guitar playing and learning, i do find teachers who are passionate in what they do..these were the teachers whom i steal licks from and copied them into my style

some teachers are just going through the motion..their sight-reading are weak and sometimes they are not able to tell the different scales

 

[mellapong]

Exactly, djasli. My thoughts alike. I have been through a few teachers, they can definitely play, but can they teach as well as they play? Not quite.

But of course they can definitely impart a fair bit of technique and theory, but the charges they offer are more of a reflection of their ability to play rather then their ability to teach. Well just my 2 cents.

 

[HarrisonYeo]

wow he came from GIT !

 

[bin4christ]

So, my question is: IMO, would you take lessons from just about anyone? Or, you would examine his/her credentials, knowledge, background etc? What qualities would you look out for in you selecting a particular instructor? His chops? His abilities to shred? his in-depth knowledge? flashiness?

well i think for those totally noob, they wont be able to tell how good chops are. some might not even know what shred or lead-playing is. as for in-depth knowledge, as long as someone says stuff like "seventh", "four-beat", "bar", etc some one totally not in the know will pobably go like "wow, you do know some things about music". but actually how hard is it to know all that stuff?

 

[ShredCow]

Teachers guide. Students practise. IMO, that's what I'd do. So it is teacher's responsibility to ensure that what they teach is 'correct'. agree? most semipro/amateur(?) guitarists i encountered during the course of my career are lacking in knowledge and in their sense of history. They can play, but not much else.

I think you have a valid concern - certainly what is taught should be correct. After all, there is such a thing as music theory.

However, when it comes to techniques, I would think - there is really no hard & fast rule as long as 2 conditions are met, namely:

1) You do not injure yourself
2) You accomplish what you set out to do (i.e. Palm muted notes should sound like Palm muted notes, regardless you do it like Marty Friedman or any other guitarist)

Then again, even theory can be thrown out the window! But that is something I would not teach a young guitarist to do because I believe its always more respectful to the music, and to one self, when the musician understands and seeks to understand what he is doing.

History of music is good to know... and I think one important factor isn't in knowing the old songs, or the gear they used or finding out which drugs they indulged in... its really about understanding how the older musicians get their vibe. I think that's a lost art... that heartfelt sincerity in putting forth one's music... which is just not found in many new bands on the radio...

Being an instructor yourself, would you say that we ourselves need to know what we are teaching? else, the standards of local guitaring will always be behind, say, the US? being trained in the US myself, i can safely says the dudes there know their music and more articulate in expressing their music. i venture that this is because they know their music, not just guitaring, and the knowledge to back it up? Or maybe it is their music in the first place?

I think local guitar standards will always be behind the US. We need to look at our culture / social perspective and our numbers. Its all different.

I've been teaching at a music school for 2.5 years now - my approach has changed. I realise I teach differently depending on the student at hand. If I know the kid in front of me is thirsty for knowledge, I feed, I go overtime and its a joy to see someone learn. If I know the kid is really not interested - I tell the kid, "look, you're not interested, if you wish to continue and provide me pocket money, fine, I'll bite, but I'm telling you, you're not learning." Most need time for me to dig and find out what kind of music they really want to do, then they start flying. Its quite a rare occurrence though.

It really takes 2 hands to clap.

I think music gains expressiveness when the player believes in what they are playing and they actively seek out ways to better express themselves. I think the gist of making authentic music is to really believe in it and go for it. Where you finish a performance feeling not just physical tired but mentally and emotionally drained too - that's putting yourself into the music. That's really expression to me. I don't get kicks out of cloning songs and neither does listening to someone sound like another guitarist make me go gaga - these 2 things don't "qualify" as expressiveness in my books.

 

[djasli]

Shredcow,

You are cool. That's why I don't listen to guitar virtuosos, although i did get to jam witm Steve Vai and Al DiMeola while at GIT. It mess you up as a musician.... you end up copying them and ended up sounding as them. Where's the fun in being a clone?

Thanks for the inputs.

 

[djasli]

bin4christ


True bro. It is easy to wow a total noob. try trying that to a trained musician? hahahaha.....

That's it, though. Instructors have the responsibilities to further our craft. Not anyhow teach, even as simple as teaching, say, the C chord. You know? For eg, not just showing them the chord shapes, but why does it need to be played that way and what can be done with that chord.

Thnaks for the thoughts bro.

 

[djasli]

fuzztremecho

haha, then why teach? that's my point. can anyone who claims to play guitar, or in broader sense, any musical instruments for that matter, can and able to teach when they themselves are groping in the dark?

I find that hilarious. It's like blind leading the blind.

Thanks for the thoughts, bro.

 

[fuzztremecho]

hahaha the blind leading the blind..
like ali baba bujang lapok
attack the house marked X
hahahaha

 

[ShredCow]

djasli

There's no fun in being a clone in the long run but its really easy to be one... and it can work for goal setting, like setting a technical standard.

I do envy you for the experience nonetheless. I would enjoy jamming and just asking questions like how they go about song writing and how do they approach/view the guitar.

 

[fuzztremecho]

bro shred

correct me if i'm wrong but what i see is that most of the world's foremost guitar players are sort like a clone to 1 another.

i for 1 would readily admit that i tried my very best to be like RR but failed coz im not good enuf hahahaha

those not in the know of guitar playing could not the different between a yngwie and a macalpine..

even great 1s like satch,vai readily admit to imitate jimi
jimi himself imitate buddy guy. imitation is flattery..

but yup..the point being that cloning can work for goal setting, like setting a technical standard is very true.

thats why im still trying to sound like RR...my bad..

 

[ShredCow]

I don't think they clone Jimi. I think they steal his ideas and make them their own. Vai's stage antics. Satch's blues lines. Etc etc. I wouldn't say Satch is the new Hendrix though.

A clone to me would be ... Joe Stump to Malmsteen. Where you listen and scratch your head and think, why I am hearing 100% XXX when I'm seeing YYY play?!

I don't think imitation of certain aspects is bad. I think cloning like in, 100% trying to be the exact same thing, like an Elvis impersonation (slightly out of context but you get the idea).

I think add one's own flavouring is key...

 

[djasli]

Good points bros.

I'm just concern that we are not moving forward as musicians, pro or otherwise.

Comparing to older pro musicians that i have the pleasure of working with, i feel that the younger generations are not quite creative and adventurous in their approach. The lack of experimentations are quite obvious. As like, , 'im a metal guitarist, why would i play blues?' or 'i play lead, wht would i bother to play 2nd guitar?"

I find this very egoistic and an affront to musicians. I major in jazz, does that means that i cant shred or play death metal? like all pro players, i pride myself in being flexible (erning a living, you know).

I try to instill the same philpsophy to my students. Learn everything. listen to everything. you might learn something new and incorporate that into your playing. You becomes you, not a clone.

Cheers.

 

[optisailor2002]

Joe Stump to Malmsteen. Where you listen and scratch your head and think, why I am hearing 100% XXX when I'm seeing YYY play?!

yesh they sound bloody alike. i think for vai and satch they do not imitate but rather take influences from those "influential" guitarists. like how neil zaza reminds you of satch, but doesnt sound exactly like satch, and how andy timmons reminds you of zaza or satch in some songs (eg electric gypsy), but doesnt sound exactly like either. if you get what i mean.

 

[HarrisonYeo]

As like, , 'im a metal guitarist, why would i play blues?' or 'i play lead, wht would i bother to play 2nd guitar?"

i agree with that man ! so u teach guitar?

 

[khutubkhana]

Good points bros.

I'm just concern that we are not moving forward as musicians, pro or otherwise.

Comparing to older pro musicians that i have the pleasure of working with, i feel that the younger generations are not quite creative and adventurous in their approach. The lack of experimentations are quite obvious. As like, , 'im a metal guitarist, why would i play blues?' or 'i play lead, wht would i bother to play 2nd guitar?"

I find this very egoistic and an affront to musicians. I major in jazz, does that means that i cant shred or play death metal? like all pro players, i pride myself in being flexible (erning a living, you know).

I try to instill the same philpsophy to my students. Learn everything. listen to everything. you might learn something new and incorporate that into your playing. You becomes you, not a clone.

Cheers.

+1
u used to me my sifu at yamaha 10yrs ago. i bet u dont know me but i still remember u. At that time, u were still wearing tight faded black jeans and jacket. hehe.