Razorzedge
New member
oh oh!! i just remembered something that might be able to help!! practice on ur ghost notes when u get those right im sure u be able to play soft... ehh yea i think =X *scratch head*
volume control or playing naturally? hmm...
- Thread starter jenocide
- Start date
plainsman
New member
welcome razorzedge !!! i see you've been making yourself comfy in this cosy drum corner of soft :mrgreen:
do drop by our monthly drum meetup/xchange if ur free. its on this saturday, 12-5pm at *Scape (near youth park)
more info can be found here:
http://soft.com.sg/forum/how-drums/56786-11th-soft-drum-xchange-will-*scape.html
if u have armands, do bring them as i'm sure some of our bros might have been rather curious about them (none of us have bought any so far)
cheers and see you around soon !!!
do drop by our monthly drum meetup/xchange if ur free. its on this saturday, 12-5pm at *Scape (near youth park)
more info can be found here:
http://soft.com.sg/forum/how-drums/56786-11th-soft-drum-xchange-will-*scape.html
if u have armands, do bring them as i'm sure some of our bros might have been rather curious about them (none of us have bought any so far)
cheers and see you around soon !!!
caijunlong
New member
Yeah! Razorzedge! Do come to our meet up! =)
Ceing, I think our headphones can be used to muff some noise. haha
Ceing, I think our headphones can be used to muff some noise. haha
Razorzedge
New member
thanks guys! feel honored bout the invite but i really will have to check to see if i can finish this major project i have on hand first before heading down. After all projects means more money means more cymbals yea? lol then again i love teaching and exchanging drum tips... ahh my brain hurts! oh well about the Armands its kinda like my babies but i guess i can bring it down and demo the brilliant tone ;P but first i like to state that i dont like ppl touching my babies GRR! =P
beboptang
New member
Hi Jenocide,
Your question has plagued us drummers for a long time. We drummers are often accused of making too much noise. Though when guitars are out of tune (very usual), or singers sound like strangled chicken, these contribute to noise too. But sometimes the complaints are valid, because of how hard we hit cymbals, hihats and snares. The higher the sticks before impact, the louder the volume produced. So unfortunately when the song is done and everybody's ears are ringing, nobody notices the out-of-tune guitars, but everybody remembers the drummer whose arms were waving wildly amid the loud crashes.
We drummers can help the situation by developing skills enough to play drums with intensity without being too loud. Most times, we drummers need a band to play music, so helping the rest of the band be heard is a much friendlier thing than drowning them out.
It's a harder lesson to learn playing with intensity without using volume as a gauge for intensity. Speed, complexity and intricacy are all ways we can feel intensity. Try playing your fastest rudiments at the quietest whisper of volume and you'll see a few things:
- The faster you go, the louder you get
- The quieter you go, the slower you get, or the less even your strokes will become.
The issue here is control. As drummers, we use smaller less common muscles to execute control over our sticks (or brushes, or Hot Rods). Unlike the bigger muscles, that we use to carry weights, or tighten lugs; the inner, less-used muscles give us control and intricate movement. Movements like using a pair of chopsticks to pick up tofu, or fishballs, brushing our teeth, SMS'ing, even writing; all these are smaller, more intricate movements and require the inner muscles.
When we can harness both the power muscles and the control muscles to play drums, we can play a wide range of dynamics in all speeds, all volumes and with consistent execution. Dynamics is a very needed part of music, that, we drummers, sometimes forget to use.
If you watch people like Tama Goh, Jimmy Lee, Boon Gee, Vinnie Colaiuta, Steve Gadd, Chad Whackerman, Akira Jimbo, Antonio Sanchez, even Buddy Rich, you'll find that they have both power and control, great dynamics. They can play very intensely without drowning out the rest of the band.
I was once taught a couple of exercises that develops this idea using sticks, brushes, hot rods (broke a few in the process) and timpani mallets.
1) SLOW-to-FAST-to-SLOW (tempo changes, volume remains)
- use any rudiment (I suggest starting from the easiest -- single strokes)
- start painfully slow and gradually go all the way to your fastest and gradually bring it back down to the same tempo you started
- keep the same volume throughout -- this is the hard part!
2) SOFT-to-LOUD-to-SOFT (tempo remains, volume changes)
- use any rudiment
- use a metronome and start with a comfortable tempo first
- start whisperingly soft and gradually go all the way to deafeningly loud and gradually bring it back down to the same volume you started
- keep the tempo constant throughout
- try not to do this at home, but rent a studio to do this, it's hard to go all the way LOUD at home without the cops coming to your door.
You can use the same idea for double pedal, or 1 foot at a time. And you can even use the same 2 exercises to practise grooves and independence patterns.
Learning control takes a long time. But it's worth it. The previous suggestions of using different sticks, muting skins, etc... are all valid, but they won't necessarily change the way you play. They will only change the way you sound.
I hope this helps in some way.
Peace,
Beboptang
Your question has plagued us drummers for a long time. We drummers are often accused of making too much noise. Though when guitars are out of tune (very usual), or singers sound like strangled chicken, these contribute to noise too. But sometimes the complaints are valid, because of how hard we hit cymbals, hihats and snares. The higher the sticks before impact, the louder the volume produced. So unfortunately when the song is done and everybody's ears are ringing, nobody notices the out-of-tune guitars, but everybody remembers the drummer whose arms were waving wildly amid the loud crashes.
We drummers can help the situation by developing skills enough to play drums with intensity without being too loud. Most times, we drummers need a band to play music, so helping the rest of the band be heard is a much friendlier thing than drowning them out.
It's a harder lesson to learn playing with intensity without using volume as a gauge for intensity. Speed, complexity and intricacy are all ways we can feel intensity. Try playing your fastest rudiments at the quietest whisper of volume and you'll see a few things:
- The faster you go, the louder you get
- The quieter you go, the slower you get, or the less even your strokes will become.
The issue here is control. As drummers, we use smaller less common muscles to execute control over our sticks (or brushes, or Hot Rods). Unlike the bigger muscles, that we use to carry weights, or tighten lugs; the inner, less-used muscles give us control and intricate movement. Movements like using a pair of chopsticks to pick up tofu, or fishballs, brushing our teeth, SMS'ing, even writing; all these are smaller, more intricate movements and require the inner muscles.
When we can harness both the power muscles and the control muscles to play drums, we can play a wide range of dynamics in all speeds, all volumes and with consistent execution. Dynamics is a very needed part of music, that, we drummers, sometimes forget to use.
If you watch people like Tama Goh, Jimmy Lee, Boon Gee, Vinnie Colaiuta, Steve Gadd, Chad Whackerman, Akira Jimbo, Antonio Sanchez, even Buddy Rich, you'll find that they have both power and control, great dynamics. They can play very intensely without drowning out the rest of the band.
I was once taught a couple of exercises that develops this idea using sticks, brushes, hot rods (broke a few in the process) and timpani mallets.
1) SLOW-to-FAST-to-SLOW (tempo changes, volume remains)
- use any rudiment (I suggest starting from the easiest -- single strokes)
- start painfully slow and gradually go all the way to your fastest and gradually bring it back down to the same tempo you started
- keep the same volume throughout -- this is the hard part!
2) SOFT-to-LOUD-to-SOFT (tempo remains, volume changes)
- use any rudiment
- use a metronome and start with a comfortable tempo first
- start whisperingly soft and gradually go all the way to deafeningly loud and gradually bring it back down to the same volume you started
- keep the tempo constant throughout
- try not to do this at home, but rent a studio to do this, it's hard to go all the way LOUD at home without the cops coming to your door.
You can use the same idea for double pedal, or 1 foot at a time. And you can even use the same 2 exercises to practise grooves and independence patterns.
Learning control takes a long time. But it's worth it. The previous suggestions of using different sticks, muting skins, etc... are all valid, but they won't necessarily change the way you play. They will only change the way you sound.
I hope this helps in some way.
Peace,
Beboptang
caijunlong
New member
Hey sis Audrey, thanks for suggesting those exercises.
Razorzedge
New member
wah she sounds teacher'ish.. scary... maybe i should name myself rocksteadylim =X
beboptang
New member
Hey Jenocide,
Sorry for late reply... Glad that you are willing to be patient and practise to get to the level you want. Hmmm... as for temporary solutions... Ok let's see if these work:
1) Don't raise your arms and sticks as high as you normally do. The higher the stick the more likely you'll use more force. Be conscious of this especially when you are going to crash or play time with your ride.
2) While your whole band is playing, focus on the softest person in the band, if you can't hear him/her in the mix of sound, you're too loud.
3) CONSCIOUSLY play your hihat and snare much softer. Try adjusting while playing so that your loudest component is the bass drum. You can be sure that when your bass drum is the loudest, you will probably hear less complaints, cuz it's likely that the band doesn't complain that the bassist is too loud right? Of course your bass drum must sync with the bassist, then you'd be playing strong, rather than loud (there is a difference!
)4) Er... imagine LKY sitting in the room with his Uzi-wielding bodyguards, ready to shoot you if you burst the 100dB mark?
Ok, the last 1 is stupid, but I guess I'm driving at being CONSCIOUS when you play.
Be aware of what's going on with you and with your bandmates when you play. Even when you see good drummers, who look like they are totally absorbed in the music, you can be sure that they are in total control of all they are doing. So try not to get so caught up in your own playing and lose your ability to control what you are doing. And definitely give some volume space to the other band members, cuz they need to express themselves as much as you.
Hope that helps.
Peace,
Beboptang
beboptang
New member
Me scary? Hahaha! No lah!
Hey Jenocide,
Sorry for late reply... Glad that you are willing to be patient and practise to get to the level you want. Hmmm... as for temporary solutions... Ok let's see if these work:
1) Don't raise your arms and sticks as high as you normally do. The higher the stick the more likely you'll use more force. Be conscious of this especially when you are going to crash or play time with your ride.
2) While your whole band is playing, focus on the softest person in the band, if you can't hear him/her in the mix of sound, you're too loud.
3) CONSCIOUSLY play your hihat and snare much softer. Try adjusting while playing so that your loudest component is the bass drum. You can be sure that when your bass drum is the loudest, you will probably hear less complaints, cuz it's likely that the band doesn't complain that the bassist is too loud right? Of course your bass drum must sync with the bassist, then you'd be playing strong, rather than loud (there is a difference!
4) Er... imagine LKY sitting in the room with his Uzi-wielding bodyguards, ready to shoot you if you burst the 100dB mark?
Ok, the last 1 is stupid, but I guess I'm driving at being CONSCIOUS when you play.
Be aware of what's going on with you and with your bandmates when you play. Even when you see good drummers, who look like they are totally absorbed in the music, you can be sure that they are in total control of all they are doing. So try not to get so caught up in your own playing and lose your ability to control what you are doing. And definitely give some volume space to the other band members, cuz they need to express themselves as much as you.
Hope that helps.
Peace,
Beboptang
hmm... will try implementing it. seems logical and might work.
RudimentalDrummer
Moderator
Audrey is a great Jazz Drummer hehehehe who came to our Xchange with Boon Gee and done a duet.....She is good....and I never forget - A Singing Drummer too.
PS: - Audrey: - So how's the STxxkxr....still scare you out of your wits?...Whahahaha !
PS: - Audrey: - So how's the STxxkxr....still scare you out of your wits?...Whahahaha !
xenOgenesis
New member
hmm bebotang brought up many points in which i must look into it myself..cos i found myself having the same probs as jenocide.
i think the problematic part would be the hi-hats and crashes..haha sometimes in order to get the speed, we end up swinging too hard and that results in the volume rise. yep hahaha training and hard work is what pays off
i think the problematic part would be the hi-hats and crashes..haha sometimes in order to get the speed, we end up swinging too hard and that results in the volume rise. yep hahaha training and hard work is what pays off
beboptang
New member
Hey gang, I was playing a gig the other night and was using Hot Rods for some tunes; and realised a few things playing with Hot Rods, which I'm sure some of you have already discovered:
- I don't hit as hard, cuz Hot Rods are expensive and I hate breaking the little sticks.
- I have to work a little harder to achieve speed and louder volumes. So my muscles fatigue faster, which then doesn't allow me to play too loud for an extended period of time.
So playing with Hot Rods may be a quick way to kinda cheat the hands to come under control? Hmmm, dunno... what do y'all think?
- I don't hit as hard, cuz Hot Rods are expensive and I hate breaking the little sticks.
- I have to work a little harder to achieve speed and louder volumes. So my muscles fatigue faster, which then doesn't allow me to play too loud for an extended period of time.
So playing with Hot Rods may be a quick way to kinda cheat the hands to come under control? Hmmm, dunno... what do y'all think?
beboptang
New member
Thanks for the vote of confidence Eric!
P.S. I'm not scared now cuz I have your number to call in an emergency right? Haha!
ioaka
New member
Personally i would recommend "Lightning Rods", also in the Hot Rod series. I use them a lot when i'm required to play softer, like when i practise at home.
They're thicker than the average hot rods, but they accentuate your cymbals, making them sound brighter and faster, which i think is really cool!
you might wanna check them out; i think they sell it at yamaha and Drum resources for about 30 bucks.
Drum Resources shifted to Redhill tho, which is kinda far for me. =(
Hope this helps! =)
They're thicker than the average hot rods, but they accentuate your cymbals, making them sound brighter and faster, which i think is really cool!
you might wanna check them out; i think they sell it at yamaha and Drum resources for about 30 bucks.
Drum Resources shifted to Redhill tho, which is kinda far for me. =(
Hope this helps! =)
first yes hot rods or lightning rods dun take the "edge" off ur sound. thts totally true.
yo audrey when u gonna come over and show us Philistine's at the music labs how to play brushes?
okie this may be alittle of topic but it has to do with volume control.
alright matey's i've noticed alot of drummer's ghost notes are way too loudddd. their called ghost notes cause their low in volume and the idiot who came up with it wanted to sound cool next to james brown (pls a minute of silence for the god father of soul).
ghost notes are used primarily in funk, jazz and certain rock sub genres.
i find tht the problem lies with improper stick placement, which means that ur rebounded stick from ur last stroke is way to high.
high stick means more distance and acceleration to the head = shitty ghost note
the stick should be "killed" 1 inch above ur snare. military band guys call it a kill stroke. 1inch means not much acceleration = not shitty ghost note
remember boyles and goules, dynamics loud or soft is alot of the times not abt how much strength or how little strength u use, its abt stick placement. ask me more if u see me anywhere, if i'm with a hot chick pls dun.
peace in dafur
mark
yo audrey when u gonna come over and show us Philistine's at the music labs how to play brushes?
okie this may be alittle of topic but it has to do with volume control.
alright matey's i've noticed alot of drummer's ghost notes are way too loudddd. their called ghost notes cause their low in volume and the idiot who came up with it wanted to sound cool next to james brown (pls a minute of silence for the god father of soul).
ghost notes are used primarily in funk, jazz and certain rock sub genres.
i find tht the problem lies with improper stick placement, which means that ur rebounded stick from ur last stroke is way to high.
high stick means more distance and acceleration to the head = shitty ghost note
the stick should be "killed" 1 inch above ur snare. military band guys call it a kill stroke. 1inch means not much acceleration = not shitty ghost note
remember boyles and goules, dynamics loud or soft is alot of the times not abt how much strength or how little strength u use, its abt stick placement. ask me more if u see me anywhere, if i'm with a hot chick pls dun.
peace in dafur
mark
beboptang
New member
Yup yup agreed! It's physics:
High stick = Loud
Low stick = Soft
But for some of us, Low Stick = weak and uncontrolled, so must work on that lor Good rudiment for that are alternating hand Flams. The 2 ghost notes should be hits and not bounced, so quite good to practice on pillow to ensure that you're not just bouncing for the ghost notes. The main note should be obviously louder than the ghosts. This should be practised going from SOFT-LOUD-SOFT (see my first reply in this thread). It's when you are playing really soft that you have to raise your stick barely 1 cm when playing the ghost notes, differentiating it in volume from the main note.
BLURRED: haha, sorry lah, I a bit busy. Maybe Wednesday next week (Apr 30) afternoon?
Peace,
Beboptang
High stick = Loud
Low stick = Soft
But for some of us, Low Stick = weak and uncontrolled, so must work on that lor
Good rudiment for that are alternating hand Flams. The 2 ghost notes should be hits and not bounced, so quite good to practice on pillow to ensure that you're not just bouncing for the ghost notes. The main note should be obviously louder than the ghosts. This should be practised going from SOFT-LOUD-SOFT (see my first reply in this thread). It's when you are playing really soft that you have to raise your stick barely 1 cm when playing the ghost notes, differentiating it in volume from the main note.BLURRED: haha, sorry lah, I a bit busy. Maybe Wednesday next week (Apr 30) afternoon?
Peace,
Beboptang