Urgent!! help!! Regarding MTI...trading laws..

[Metal]

hmmm like to enquire abt MTI trading laws..for my friend..
to protect both identity.
does it include one on one barter trade without black and white contract??

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_retrieve.pl?actno=REVED-48A&doctitle=COMMODITY%20TRADING%20ACT%0a&date=latest&method=part

let say a scenerio..
if my friend he traded off a guitar to this person..
and its like for a couple of months..
okies so they decided on a price..
as my friend dunno the guitar much..
so he merely state the name of the guitar himself in one of the buy/sell section..
so he put the brand name he saw on the headstock...
and theres a design on the guitar..
so he put the name as that.. (brand)(the design)..
and he actually gave the serial number he found in the guitar itself..
at the buy/sell section..
and so its a verbal agreement btw the two...
so he and this person done the trade and a couple of months now the person realise tat..
its not the exact model...
so he demanded a refund from my frend..
and my frend kinda in a dilema now..
its been couple of months..
and the person cant sold it and wanted to refund it..
so my frend kinda hesitates and this person wanna to bring this issue...
and claim tat my frend has perfom a fraud...
by cheating on him on the orgins of the guitar..
scolding him dishonest...
and reporting him to MTI..
if he didnt refund him ASAP..
by the website link by MTI..
but my frend actually give him the serial number..
and pictures.
does it still consider a fraud?
where the price is quoted by the buyer the person...
and they neg abt it...

so i dunno how to advice him..
whats the advice to help my frend?

NOTE: plse dun ask me the identity or the guitar model, so to protect my friend and the person identity.

 

[ge3k]

aiya. if the issue of refund was never brought up during trade than ur friend no need worry too much la. ur friend didnt mislead or force the person to buy wat. so i dont see the "fraud"

 

[G_MAN_91]

I think it is kinda stupid to reported it to MTI,
cause you see, MTI is more concerned about international trade rather then domestic trade.
The guy is just trying to scare your friend into refunding him.
So i believe your friend have absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

[Metal]

coz my frend he a bit like give in one..
so he dun wanna get things too messy..
and also like spoil the harmony in soft..
in case the person or wad flame him and,
causing un-neccessary trouble here...
and he short of cash..
so he very dilema whether shld he pay back the exact sum,
for that guitar...

btw its not a fender or gibson value...
its a normal middle class brand acoutics..

 

[Gr3yF0x]

you did say that your friend stated the brand/design. but the other dude questions it's model. if you friend didn't state anything about the model then it should be fine. anyway, if a reasonable time has lapsed since the misrepresentation, that other guy may lose the right to ask for a refund or nullify this contract.

 

[Phil]

Tell your friend to tell the guy politely to eff off.

He stated model, brand and even serial number. It's the buyer's responsibility to do his research and check out the details before buying.

When the deal is made, both parties are willing and in agreement. What more can you ask for?

 

[Metal]

yup..
i believe my frend and this person has a misunderstanding...
but the person appears to be hostile...
so yeah..
my frend kinda dunno wad to do...

but phill regarding the MTI law rite..
can we actually use tat?
against such one on one verbal agreement barter trade?

 

[Gr3yF0x]

seriously that dude can't do shit to your friend. and a guitar is not a commodity. don't know why you're refering to a CTA.

 

[Metal]

anyway i m not stiring up this to target any members of the softies...
u noe generally soft members are frendly and nice...

jus made this disclaimer in case i offend someone...

 

[Metal]

seriously that dude can't do shit to your friend. and a guitar is not a commodity. don't know why you're refering to a CTA.

wads a CTA bro??
yeah that person threaten my frend and tell him that,
he done it before to a member in soft and he wont hesitate to do it again..
tats why my frend dunno wad to do..
and he also cant becoz of that make himself at the `lugi` end...

 

[hedron]

Metal, your link is pointing at the commodities trading act (CTA) which does not apply at all in this case. That's for professional oil, gold, whatever trader.
Your case is actually regulated under the law of contact (case law).
In legal terms the trade was a contract and your case is regarded as a "mistake" (a so called common mistake).
So under case law usually the trade is still valid if both parties were both thinking to sell/trade the right product and the product is not "radically" different from what both parties believed what it should be.
So if you sell a guitar and later both parties find out it's actually a piano, well then the contract is void.
But since it seems to be a very similar guitar I see little chance for the other person to be legally successful.

see also http://www.singaporelaw.sg/content/ContractLaw.html#section9

 

[Gr3yF0x]

yeap. hedron is right. you might also wanna read into the part about representation in the link he gave.

 

[Metal]

Metal, your link is pointing at the commodities trading act (CTA) which does not apply at all in this case. That's for professional oil, gold, whatever trader.
Your case is actually regulated under the law of contact (case law).
In legal terms the trade was a contract and your case is regarded as a "mistake" (a so called common mistake).
So under case law usually the trade is still valid if both parties were both thinking to sell/trade the right product and the product is not "radically" different from what both parties believed what it should be.
So if you sell a guitar and later both parties find out it's actually a piano, well then the contract is void.
But since it seems to be a very similar guitar I see little chance for the other person to be legally successful.

see also http://www.singaporelaw.sg/content/ContractLaw.html#section9

okies means another words...
its classified as a mistake..?
and no damages are needed to be done rite?
so if using ur analogy...
the guitar and piano..
means if the contract for tat is void means wad?
means the seller mus refund back and compensate the buyer?
so if now for my frend case its a misunderstanding of the guitar..
and the contract is still consider not void?
means can he pursue any legal charges against my frenD?

 

[Metal]

yeap. hedron is right. you might also wanna read into the part about representation in the link he gave.

hmm i read le..
a bit blur...
so means when contract is void meaning..
u break the contract and u got to pay?
or means the contract u verbally say doesnt stand..
and u got to compensate the buyer?

and so for my frend case is the contract legal not void..
means the buyer can pursue charges towards my frend?
or he cant? coz its agreed upon btw each other?

 

[Metal]

its like...
u go coffee shop order coke...
and auntie give u PEPSI...
and u wanted coca cola..
and u look at the PEPSI and its serial number and check...
and pay the money to auntie..
and after u open up and drink..
u split it out and tell auntie i tot is coca cola...
and demand a refund or else u will pursue legal charges towards this auntie..

can i use this analogy?

 

[fretness]

better get paid protection. just in case you know, things get nasty. always keep a penknife by your side. Anyway, no way its a fraud, the guys fault. tell your friend dont give in to unreasonable demands. be your own man. show some testicular fortitude and it should be ok.

 

[Gr3yF0x]

Testicular fortitude... HAHA. Nice. Anyway, it's been months since the transaction. The other dude cannot do anything about it already. So you can ask your friend to politely ask that other dude to f*** off. Remember to do it politely!

 

[Metal]

better get paid protection. just in case you know, things get nasty. always keep a penknife by your side. Anyway, no way its a fraud, the guys fault. tell your friend dont give in to unreasonable demands. be your own man. show some testicular fortitude and it should be ok.

i agreed but if employ a lawyer wtf rite?
in the end the lawyer fees is more expensive than the guitar refund..
but maybe i ask my frend see wads his plan lo..

maybe say sorry its a misunderstanding and hope he will understand..

 

[Metal]

better get paid protection. just in case you know, things get nasty. always keep a penknife by your side. Anyway, no way its a fraud, the guys fault. tell your friend dont give in to unreasonable demands. be your own man. show some testicular fortitude and it should be ok.

true greyfox..
but but...
paid protection means lawyers or bodyguards??

eh realli stupid man..
if that guy wanna kill my frend becoz of 400 bucks?
its like wtf???

 

[hedron]

well, it's case law, so it means it's up to the judge to decide. but the link I gave you indicates that as long the common mistake of contract didn't result in a completely different result (guitar->piano) then the chances are good that the judge would uphold the contract means the deal is valid.
Given also the fact that it took quite a long time to discover the mistake would probably support this case.

However if the guitar your friend has traded had a completely different (lower) value than both parties thought it should be then he might still run into trouble (example 200$ guitar traded with 4000$ guitar). Your friend needs also to be watertight in his claim that he didn't know that the other guy wanted an other guitar (evidence like the sell/buy post).

The other person can of course pursue charges in any case but the question is if he is successful. But as I said it's case law so it's case dependent and chances look good for your friend