Urethane VS Polyesther Finished differences?

[Batlovesowl]

Hi all,

What is the differences between Urethane finished and polyesther finished on guitar?

What is the characteristic for each finishing?

Which is better?

 

[Whitestrat]

What is the differences between Urethane finished and polyesther finished on guitar?

What is the characteristic for each finishing?

There's no Polyester finish... Only Nitro Cellulose, and Polyurethane, no? I've not heard about Polyester finishes...

There's no such thing as "better". They're both different. one ages well, and protects the paintwork as it's very hard, but chips off when you have damage, the other takes damage much better, and doesn't chip off, and ages more naturally. It's simply a matter of what you like.

 

[Phil]

I think a more relevant comparison would be between general Polyester paint jobs and Nitrocellulose finishes. But that's another story.

Between Polyester and Polyurethane:
Polyester is resin-based and a lot thicker, which stifles your tone.
Polyurethane is much more expensive but it's thinner and sounds a lot better than Polyester.

 

[Phil]

There's no Polyester finish... Only Nitro Cellulose, and Polyurethane, no? I've not heard about Polyester finishes...

If you scrutinise the details, you'll see that MIA Fenders have polyurethane finishes while MIM Fenders have polyester. They will emphasize the 'urethane finish' portion.

According to John Suhr, "polyurethane ages more quickly and is more susceptible to dings and scratches, while polyester retains its brilliance over long periods of time while providing the best protection."

But the main thing is how thick the finish is, if done well, poly finishes can be done as thinly as nitro finishes. Problem is that low-cost guitars propogate the thick-ass poly finishes.

 

[Whitestrat]

From EBMM.com

Q: Why does Music Man use Polyester finishes on instrument bodies instead of Nitrocellulose finishes?

A: Nitrocellulose finishes are really the rare breed today. Because of the environmental hazards of spraying this material it is becoming regulated or outlawed in more and more areas, beginning with California. We all like the way it looks on vintage instruments, but it does shrink, crack and scratch much worse than either polyester or polyurethane finishes. These are qualities that many people used to live with, but now feel are unacceptable. Most guitar companies now use either polyester or polyurethane finishes, as do cars. They are tougher, and do not shrink, chip, crack or scratch nearly as easy as nitrocellulose. They are also much more expensive than nitrocellulose. There is really not that much difference between guitar and auto finishes, except that the products made for autos must withstand cold temperatures, not fade with constant exposure to sunlight, rain, etc.- things you would never want to expose a guitar to. Polyester is the hardest of all the topcoat materials. It is quite resistant to yellowing and cracking. It will protect your guitar better than anything else.

 

[Phil]

You said it man.

Nitro finish is organic and will fade in time. That's why the old Fenders, etc, have all that wear-marks. And people think that the new guitars are better made because they don't suffer those problems.

Nitro also allows your guitar the 'breathe'. But this topic has been discussed to death all over the world, I guess it boils down to what you want and need from your guitar.

And imho, as mentioned, it's how thin/thick the finish is that matters.

 

[Whitestrat]

According to John Suhr, "polyurethane ages more quickly and is more susceptible to dings and scratches, while polyester retains its brilliance over long periods of time while providing the best protection."

ooo! Thanks for the heads up... Didn't realise there was a difference.

 

[Batlovesowl]

Haha! thanks I got that =) I notice that there is a differences between Urethane and Polyurethane too. I'm still studying on it, wonder if you guys noe the differences too

 

[Batlovesowl]

I've got a Urethane finished guitar the finishing is actually soft, I actually got a ding surface becos i accidentally poke it with my 0.8mmTHK pick while putting it down.
I believe Polyurethane finishing is a improved version so called "heavy-duty" ethane.

 

[vickomaniac]

Chemically speaking, Ethane's chemical formula is C2H6, compared to Polyurethane which is waaaaaaay more complicated (think a reaction involving big molecules + catalyst), thus, Polyurethane is stronger.

Linguistically speaking, Poly = Many. Thus more molecules of urethane = stronger compound.

I mentioned all Ethane, Urethane and Polyurethane cos I'm not exactly sure which the person above me was referring to.
But methinks Ethane isn't the thing used in guitar finishes because it's usually used as a industrial catalyst.

Just my two cents, forgive me if i'm wrong!

 

[Breen]

To be very safe, just go for the Nitro. It ages superbly. Under a year for my Tele and it already quite bokok and got the cool under arm fade area... But you must play and have rather shitey sweat like mine....

 

[Batlovesowl]

Yeah its true poly = more ethane hahaha ! Yup I'm keen in understanding nitro, will a nitro instrument really sound different? What do you mean bokok? Checking you mean?

I heard Nitro produce toxic gas when decompose take place such as carbon monoxide.

But nitro seriously looks good when it age haha

 

[eclipze]

nice topic !!

when it comes to a PU(polyurethane) when u finish coating ur axe with it ... for a better result u had to oven it (PU cant dry naturally like other finishes) ... if u skip this method ... ur PolyUrethane surface will not dry perfectly so u often find ur coating feel soft when u touch it... the outer skin is dry but not the inner side...
and there r some tricks when u apply PU finishes

unlike the nitro finish.. just wait till dry... wet sand than apply coat again and again replay the method

the method of applying finish between them r different
so do the result... PU finish looks more shiny than nitro... its more resistant to scar and bump... but if the finish receive amount of impacts / u throw down forcefully, it will crack
but in nitro finishes...its not resistant to scar and bump....

 

[Batlovesowl]

Does that explains why ethane is kinda soft? lol.. it got a ding after i banged onto it

 

[eclipze]

there some other than PU finishing that feel soft when u touch it.... i often deal with this type of coating.. it's resin , automotive parts use this too .... u got a transparent coat and softy coat surface...


can u attach some pic of it??

 

[vickomaniac]

Does that explains why ethane is kinda soft? lol.. it got a ding after i banged onto it

yes, it does.
weaker compounds = more easily affected by force.

 

[NachociousD]

Urethane and Polyesther are actually use on bowling balls perhaps you mixed them up.

 

[Phil]

yes, it does.
weaker compounds = more easily affected by force.

Like the new Fender Road-worn series' finish.

 

[ymmak]

I think there is no such thing as polyethane, but there is polyethene though. Polymerisation occurs when there is a double bond, like C=C double bond, or as a multiple condensation reactions. So you cannot have a polyethane, but you may have polyethene as polymerisation can occur between multiple ethene, due to the presense of the C=C double bond.

Ethane is soft? Ethane is a gas at STP! And I am doubtful that polyurethane is a heavy-duty ethane.

I am unsure whether there is a difference between urethane and polyurethane. I suspect that when manufacturers put "urethane", they actually mean "polyurethane".

 

[lightice]

Its either polyurethane or polyester.

Poly of either type is flexible, not "soft". Due to it's thinness, it gets dinged, but it does not chip off easily. Compared to nitro. Also, it resists minor impacts better than nitro. That said, poly can and will crack if sufficient force is used, especially with a sharp edge. But it won't fall off.

Nitro, when dinged will just chip and fall off. I won't go into the "sonic properties" of either finishes. But based on protection, poly offers better protection compared to nitro. Because its flexible, more scratch resistant and holds up to general wear better than nitro.