Upgrade from 1x12 cab to 2x12 cab

[faizal_rocks]

Hi folks, I currently have a Epi VJ cab with 12 inch speaker and I'm pondering whether its worth to upgrade to a 2x12 cab. Is there a huge tonal difference? I play mostly at home.

Appreciate ur inputs..thanks

 

[foosiong]

why dont you buy marshall cabs
it way much better

 

[jskadiang]

^ /facepalm *10chars*

 

[faizal_rocks]

foosiong: I don't think ur answering my question correctly. It doesn't matter what brand of cab I get, how many/types/size of speakers in the cab are the only things that matters. And I need to know whether there is a tonal difference of having that extra speaker in a cab.

 

[leecs]

Of course theres tone difference.

 

[lightice]

Hi Faizal,

It depends on your approach to this.

If you are going to use the same speakers in the 2x12 as the 1x12, there won't be much difference if any.

If you are going to mix and match, then there will be slight tonal differences. I suggest you get an empty 1x12 and connect them via 2 outputs on the amp rather than get a 2x12. That is if you want to experiment.

2x12 with different speakers require careful choosing so the 2 speakers can complement each other.

Is there something you find inadequate? What speaker are you using now? Have you tried any other speaker?

If you find your current setup suits you fine, I suggest not investing in a 2x12. The money can be spent better elsewhere.

 

[faizal_rocks]

Hi lightice, I'm currently using the Eminence Red Fang speaker in my Epi VJ cab. There's nothing I find lacking, just thought I may be missing out a lot on tone if I were to restrict myself to a 1x12. Guess I'll stick to my current 1x12..thanks for ur help! 2x12 with different speakers to experiment with might be costly for me at this point of time

 

[j_m_s]

Lightice pretty much nailed it.

The combination of speakers is a big thing that affects the tone, tgp gives a good read on good speaker combinations.

 

[lightice]

I suggest you bring along your epi head to guys with different cabs to test it out.

Btw, I actually meant to get another 1x12 to connect to the secondary output of your amp. Not an empty 1x12. Pardon my mistake.

Or better yet, look for guys who own orange tiny terrors or black heart amps, bring your amp to try with their cabs.

 

[faizal_rocks]

lightice: Thanks for the suggestion. Will try my Epi head with different cabs if I have time.

j_m_s: Thanks for the tip, will search the tgp forums.

 

[lightice]

if you happen to come by JB, I'll let you in on my stash

 

[MrBukka]

Hey faizal bro, beside mix and match speakers which makes a tonal difference, having an extra speaker does make a bigger sound and more power imo but like lightice said not much tonal diff if using a pair of same speakers but cab construction does make a difference in tone.

Cause the cab i am currently using (ceriatone 2X12 with V30s) is a huge oversize cab made frm some exotic birch wood according to nik frm ceriatone (not ur garden variety oversize cabs)....i think it can actually pose of as a 4X12 in terms of size lol......but the extra space does make the sound more airy and thump which i like that is not so boxy sounding (which most 1X12 sound actually). It is also said that cabs using good quality birch wood tends to produce a nice and solid tone and sound......so always look for a cab made of birch or other good hard wood.

One gd suggestion i read on the web for tonal variety with gd balance and mix, is to pair a harder sounding speaker say ur red fang or a V30 with a softer speaker like maybe a greenback or something along that line. Hope this helps bro, cheers.

 

[lightice]

It is actually a misconception that a 2x12 is louder than a 1x12.
They are actually they same volume if using the same amp, etc.

It just seems louder because 2 speakers are moving air instead of 1, but volume is equal.

As for 'boxy' sounding, removing the backplate and making it an open back cab will help this. A 1x12 in an open back or the large ceriatone cab will sound the same as a 2x12 loaded with same speakers.

The red fang is actually a soft sounding speaker, its eminence's take on the celestion blue, but power handling @ 30W.

I however do agree that having 2x12 does make it sound 'bigger' mainly because of it having a pseudo stereo effect when near the cab. And yes cab construction makes quite a big difference. Although the biggest difference is open or closed back. If its open back, the size of the cab is then neglected.

And yeah Bukka, Nik makes some wicked stuff. I never did ask him about the exact species of wood, but he did mention to me it was solid wood and not ply. It is heavy though.

On a side note, a 1x12 doesn't make an amp less desirable tone wise. Dumble made combos using 1x12s, loading them with anything from EVs to whatever he could find to replace EV when they went out of production.

Two-rock offers 1x12 or 2x12, but the main concern when choosing between the 1x12 or 2x12 is the power handling. Always get a cab with power handling twice that of your amp's RMS output.
Dumble solved that problem and went with a 200W EV12L.

 

[MrBukka]

Well said lightice, i actually forgot abt the conversion to an open back chasis haha. For the redfang i guess i made a mistake lol but i guess u get the idea that i was talking abt. Hmmmm but wouldn't and open back chasis reduce the bass frequencies and tightness? Although i do agree that open back cabs have an airy 3D sound which is multi directional that is nice if an open sound is to be achieved (very nice in general), i guess to get the best of both world, maybe a semi open back cab would do the trick. Well i guess it comes down to player's preference at the end of the day.

Btw i remember that nik referred it as marine grade baltic birch wood or something like that.....hmmmm, just love his stuff, i will definitely get one of his quality amps in the future! Faizal bro, get a ceriatone cab (beats marshall cabs hands down) and u wun regret it haha!

 

[lightice]

My cabs are different from yours, after I checked for the picture of your cab.
Mine isn't made from marine grade baltic birch ply.
Marine grade baltic birch ply is just a fancy name for anti rot treated baltic birch (species of tree) ply that is voidless.

Yes, an open back cab will decrease bassiness a bit, for some amp/speaker combo its a good thing. I only have 1 open back cab, and for that application its wonderful sounding. Although I might take it out and use it for other stuff once situation permits.

I would like to stress that speakers do age over time, the cone loosens up and the sound gets sweeter. Usually takes about 50 hours of playing time.

I have a tip for you, if you want your cab to sound better, either get a beam blocker or to face the cab towards a room corner so the echo bounces off the wall and you won't get ice pick highs directly at you. It evens out the EQ from the speaker.

 

[MrBukka]

Thanx for the suggestions lightice, appreciate it.

 

[faizal_rocks]

MrBukka/Lightice: Hi bros, thanks for the tips. I didn't realize that the construction material of the cab plays a part in tone as well. Maybe I should open up the back plate/grill of my VJ cab and see if there's a difference. As much as I read on the TGP forums, ppl there have been giving suggestions on what speaker goes well with my Red Fang. I could easily get the speaker from overseas but problem is s'pore customs doesn't allow speakers to be brought to our shores here, last I checked. I searched thru sounwavesmm for eminence ones but all they had left was celestion, which had me thinking whether celestions can work well with eminence.

 

[the_insomniac]

Customs doesn't allow speakers to be brought in? how come?

 

[lightice]

No such issues with customs. I brought in all my speakers.

There's no such thing with regards to speakers, singapore is a free port.
Everything except those listed under dutiable goods can be brought in duty free.

If cannot bring in, how did the retailers here get their stock?
If you heard it from a shop, they are BSing you.

It isn't the brand that matters, its the frequency response and tone characteristics of the individual speakers that matter. Besides, the red fang is eminence's reproduction of the celestion blue, only with higher power handling.

 

[MrBukka]

Yup totally agree abt the importing of speakers, i dun believe that speakers cant be imported, lol if that's the case then any guitar gear shld be banned as well lol, total nonsense!!!

As for a suitable speaker to pair with the red fang, i believe that celestion can do the job just fine but u gotta carefully know what kinda tone/sound u r looking for thus like lightice's suggestion, study and evaluate the frequency response and tone charateristics of the speakers. One gd and more straightforward method as i have mentioned earlier is to pair a soft speaker such as the red fang since it is a clone of the celestion blue with a stronger/harder speaker, which will give u gd tonal mix and balance.