Tracktion sequencing / recording studio

[koala]

I have spent some of my weekend on trying Tracktion sequencing and recording environment.
I must start by saying that in the last year, I have tried almost everything around: Cubase, Logic, Sonar, Acid... and so many others. My target is to find the proper environment to compose and record with a computer environment.

The environment is composed of a Roland JV module, a Roland XP 80 and a Korg SP 500... and a piano. The computer is a PC, for cost, easy parts and configuration purposes.

Since a few months, and especially since the release of Sonar 3, I had almost stopped looking for anything else. It fits the needs: excellent for both Midi and Audio, with a great user interface.
I changed my focus from sequencing and recording to sounds, and spent some time looking for the proper software synthesizers, and again tried quite a few... and while searching possible alternate solution, found a Tracktion review... and decided to give a look, always trying to review my mind and stay open to others views...

I am really impressed by both performances and capabilities. It is, a serious home studio solution... and surely gives another approach to modern software design and user interface solutions...

Can't say yet if that will finally turn my eyes away from Sonar, but surely to be considered when the final solution will have to dig inside my wallet...

Of course, all this is my personal perception and is open to discussion... I would be very happy to receive a lot of remarks and opinions on this, as I am always trying to refine my point of view.

Koala

 

[Cheez]

Koala forgot to post the link. Here it is: Tracktion

Not bad at 80 USD. But in the end, it comes to personal preference. For me, I'm too used to Logic. Even though now Logic has stopped their products for PC, I'm still using it for my PC.

Can't see what Tracktion has that Sonar, Logic and Cubase do not have. The GUI looks simple enough. They did not mention anything about notations, which is a shame. (but then at 80 USD...) Somebody ought to download a demo version and try out their latencies.

 

[koala]

gui & latencies...

Actually, there are two things that I like in Tracktion and that Sonar and the others could not provide to me:

- a very direct angle to approach the project, making easy to see in one screen the situation of the full project. I find it more direct that the other products, though I would love another tab for a customized view, where I could define a screen based on my focus, may be with different views relevant to the different stages of the recording work: composing, tone and sample chosing, tuning and effects, recording and levels...

- a very low cpu usage while playing or recording. I was recording a minus one of 'because of you', just for testing it, and used SampleTank 2 as I could not use it on Sonar, where it did not have enough cpu to be polyphonic. With Tracktion, using SampleTank 2, I could even record it with the grand piano which I had selected.

I believe a product choice is a question of touch and feeling, based on habits and perceptions. Tracktion has a non conventional approach to the software studio environment... I like it... it is worth spending a bit of time discovering it.

Almost forgot to say, I would have loved a score view, since midi is my primary concern...

Koala

 

[Cheez]

Re: gui & latencies...

- a very low cpu usage while playing or recording. I was recording a minus one of 'because of you', just for testing it, and used SampleTank 2 as I could not use it on Sonar, where it did not have enough cpu to be polyphonic. With Tracktion, using SampleTank 2, I could even record it with the grand piano which I had selected.

Hmmm, very interesting. What about recording and playback of audio tracks? Did you do a comparison betweent the 2? Also what about the latency differences between the 2?

 

[veganbleu]

Thing with sonar 3 it's hilariously bloated. It's really interesting, but i think you could get really low timings with a freeware like computer muzys, which is fine for most people.

 

[koala]

comparisons...

It is never very easy to compare two products, especially when their design are as different as these two: Tracktion automatise the latency detection based on the sampling definition and internal test on the audio, Sonar let you define latency buffers and manages some additional buffers depending on the frequency which you can also adjust.

To be absolutely fair, it would required to be good enough to fine tune the buffer settings on Sonar, which I did not do. But I used both based on their automatic definition and I tested different latency buffer solution to "optimize" the results on Sonar... that is as fair as I could.

As I mentioned, the worse results were using SampleTank2 and a 30MB grand piano bank. On Sonar, I could not get polyphony with this... I first tought SampleTank Polyphony was limited to non simultaneously pressed keys... I can be so dumb... When I tried the same composition, with the same SampleTank2 VST, with the same bank, on the same computer, with Tracktion, it worked perfectly... I then went back to Sonar and realized the cpu indication on Sonar was at 80% when playing this piece, when on Tracktion it did not raise above 15%...
That is the time I opened SampleTank documentation and found that lack of cpu causes limitation in polyphony... which validates the idea that the cpu and possibly memory usage (as it implies swapping which uses cpu...) were responsible of the difference...

Now, please, do not see this as a bad review for Sonar. First, because that is not the point I try to make... I am just looking for other people's views on Tracktion and their feeling on the software sequencing solutions. Second, because I have a very low profile configuration: my computer is a PC, running XP, with 384MB or RAM, 20GB of hard disk 5400rpm, Celeron 1.7GHz and SoundBlaster Live 5.1 soundcard...

Koala

 

[lowjk]

Re: comparisons...

I am just looking for other people's views on Tracktion and their feeling on the software sequencing solutions. Second, because I have a very low profile configuration: my computer is a PC, running XP, with 384MB or RAM, 20GB of hard disk 5400rpm, Celeron 1.7GHz and SoundBlaster Live 5.1 soundcard...

Koala

It's difficult to comment on Tracktion as each person have their own preference. Just use what works well for you.
eg I'm a "Step Entry" person so a sequencer with a good step entry page is important to me.

My other advise is to change the soundcard. A good soundcard will follow you when you upgrade later.

 

[koala]

performances...

I have now performed a few additional tests, for the same products, but on a laptop, without using any VST instruments...

Tracktion uses almost 100% of my laptop cpu when playing a 5 bars midi composition through the Microsoft synth... and takes 65 to 70 MB of RAM
I can barely recognize the music...

Sonar uses 30 to 35% of my laptop cpu when playing the same piece through the same synth... and takes around 30 MB of RAM.
I can clearly hear the music...

What should I understand:
- is the VST wrapping of Sonar working properly?
- is the MME interface of Sonar working properly?
... did I miss something?

My guess would be VST wrapping since I would guess the VST are used through a DXi wrapper, DXi being an API as well... that can easily cost some resource loss through the layers... or just some bug hanging around the VST wrapper...

I will try some more on the desktop plat-form...

koala

 

[Cheez]

Re: performances...

The wrapper in Sonar should not cause too much a problem for VSTi even though they go through DXi - haven't heard much problem with people using VST plug-ins with Sonar.

What's the config of your laptop?

Your PC does not appear to be optimised for DAW applications. Firstly, Celeron is definitely not the way to go. A lot of audio/ sequencing programs are optimised for Pentium. Secondly, your RAM is definitely not enough especially since you're running Windows XP. Either increase your RAM or run Windows 98/ ME. Thirdly, the Hard Drive should be at least 7200rpm. It probably will not affect the CPU much, but loading times does differ dramatically. Lastly as LowJK pointed out, the Creative soundcard is never recommended for DAW applications.

What samples do you use usually for SampleTank? If you like piano sounds, may I suggest GigaStudio? My PC is a 933MHz Pentium III, 512 MB RAM (as you can see - not very powerful), SCSI drives (10000rpm), running Windows ME. With the 1GB piano sample, I get 160 notes polyphony without a single problem (running together with Logic). I can play glissandoes up and down the keyboard and you won't hear a click or a pop. What's more, piano samples for GigaStudio nowadays come with 32 velocity layers (!!!). My piano is only 4 velocity layers (4 pedal down, 4 pedal up - 8 in total) - already better than the hardware modules. The new GigaStudio 3 will come with a piano with 7 velocity layers, and unlimited polyphony.

 

[koala]

still a lot to invest...

the samples are SonicSynth SR Grand Piano (30 MB only) which runs from SampleTank2.

Yes, agreed, I should get my-self something better for Christmas... staring with RAM and hard-disk... was already thinking about it... but must also grow my playing and I need a keyboard that I can carry when travelling... will have to ask for a raise soon!

Your configuration gives me a good idea of what can be used and some good points of comparison.

The only remaining open question is the sound card, since I do not record live instruments... I use this plat-form for composition only and mostly to build midi tracks that i associate to software synth or a hardware module and record them independantly, then mix them down to a mp3...
So, at this stage, the SBLive provides me with Soundfont card capability, also correct sound... the only problem is that it does not support ASIO 2.0 driver, which drives me either to Audigy 2ZS or EMU 1212M... still Creative stuff... but higher end.

I need to bring my bank card to Sim Lim next time...

koala

 

[lowjk]

Avoid all Creative Cards for music production (except the EMU ones).
All have crippled ASIO drivers.
Only the Audigy 2ZS Platinum Pro can do ASIO recording at 24 bit/48Khz and 24bit/96Khz.

The rest of the cards Audigy 1,2, ZS (including the Platium series) are at most limited to 16 bit/48Khz.

And since the Platinum Pro costs about $400, it is already in the price range of the M-audio Audiophile 2496 or Echo Mia cards which are indefinitely better.

If budget is a constraint, you may wish to try out the M-audio revolution but the ASIO performance is an unknown since it is review mainly by non-music sites.

 

[koala]

as promised, further tests...

I have worked on a composition this weekend... actually, not a new one, but one that I had to review to make it better...
And that is when Tracktion hits the wall... I tried my best, but the one screen concepts does not fit at all complicated changes in a song recording and in the midi composition review and modification...
So, back to Sonar, where this work can be done nicely... eventhough the bounce to track seems a bit playful...
koala

 

[Den]

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[Den]

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