Sound Module

[lowjk]

Re: Roland JV1080 vs JD990 vs XV2020 vs Korg Trinity Rack

Which would you get:
1. Roland JV1080
2. Roland JD990
3. Roland XV2020
4. Korg Trinity Rack

Thanks!

JD-990; no question asked. Least polyphony of the lot but reason is polyphony is sacrificed for sound quality.

 

[Quasar]

Thanks for the super quick reply!

Wow... that was quite unexpected, but then again, the JD990 is the one I know least about amongst the 4.

Is it good despite:
1. me not having the 'Vintage' expansion card (and I don't wanna purchase something expensive so soon again)
2. not supporting most other expansion cards (SRX, etc)?

Also, it is currently priced above the 1080 and slightly less than the 2020. Trinity rack is the cheapest of all

 

[newbie100]

sound module

the JD and JV roland modules are warmer in sound.
roland XV and KORG Trinity sound digitalized.

the roland JD990 with the vintage SRJV80 card
host a strings of hidden sound, unavailable in JV1080/2080.

JV1080 can hosts 4 srjv80 cards where the
2nd hand market costs SG$50-150 each.

XV2020 has higher sampled ROM waveform at 32MB
whereas JV only 8Mb and JD 6Mb.
XV2020 can hosts 2 SRX cards.
1 SRX card equals to 2-3 SRJV80 cards,
so 2 SRX cards equal 4-6 SRJV cards.

look at the WORLD SRX card which has
the waveforms of 3-4 SRJV cards.

my advice is to get the Roland XV5050 or FantomX.
maybe the XV5080 which can host SRJV80 and SRX cards.

Roland modules are very expandable.

so is Yamaha Motif/ES rack with the PLG cards.


For KORG TRINITY rack module, cannot expand.
worse, the LCD screen is so small, make it
hard to edit sounds.

remember the KORG TRINITY workstation?
the LCD screen is touchview and big, made easy
to edit sounds and scroll pages.

it'll be hard to edit sound in the TR rack module

 

[Cheez]

May I ask what digital piano are you using in church?

 

[Quasar]

May I ask what digital piano are you using in church?

It's an old yamaha relic but the piano/e-piano sounds are sufficiently good for our use.

I don't remember the model... But it is definitely not from the P series. Need to go to church to check it out.

BTW I have already confirmed that it has the MIDI IN/OUT ports to drive the module.

Hopefully that should be enough right?

From my limited knowledge of midi, what I intend to do is:
1. a) MIDI IN of *module* to midi OUT of digi piano
1. b) MIDI IN of *small roland synth* to MIDI THRU of digi piano (optional)
2. Module's audio OUT to amp
3. Digi piano's audio OUT to amp
4. Pick a sound from module (e.g. pad)
5. Pick a sound from d-piano (e.g. e-piano)
6. Turn up volume on both, play and pray that it works!
7. If I don't need the sound from anyone, just turn down the volume

 

[Quasar]

Re: sound module

newbie100 thanks for the comprehensive reply. I have a few questions, since you seem to have used these modules before.

the JD and JV roland modules are warmer in sound.
roland XV and KORG Trinity sound digitalized.

I thought that the XV stuff had all JV sounds in it + other newer sounds?

the roland JD990 with the vintage SRJV80 card host a strings of hidden sound, unavailable in JV1080/2080.

Yep I know this one, but I do not have the budget to go and get the vintage card unless it costs me $50, which I strongly doubt

look at the WORLD SRX card which has
the waveforms of 3-4 SRJV cards.

Do you know if there is an SRX card equivalent to the 'Vintage' and 'Dance' SRJV cards?

my advice is to get the Roland XV5050 or FantomX. maybe the XV5080
...
so is Yamaha Motif/ES rack with the PLG cards.

These are a bit too expensive I haven't seen a Motif rack for sale yet, is it about the same price as an XV5080?

For KORG TRINITY rack module, cannot expand. worse, the LCD screen is so small, make it hard to edit sounds.

Yep, but from what I read, the presets are very good (thus lessening the need for an expansion) and that there is a supplied software editor that works quite well. You think it sucks that badly?

 

[iansoh]

we have a Trinity in my church(pun not intended), which i use from time to time. it's great, but the usable pad sounds are actually few. a large number of them sound too techno-ish or synthy, morphing sparkly sounds and all - not suitable for church setting.

however - strings, rhodes, leads are great. orchestral patches are really useful because the presets come with layered brass/woodwind/string/percussion sounds split into different key zones and velocity zones.

on the down side, the hammond patches on the trinity are just OK unless u're really picky abt hammond tone. rotary slow/fast is usually switch-triggered by joystick up motion, (korg calls it JS+Y). if u don't have modulation on your controller then u're not going to have rotary speed toggle.

i haven't actually used a TRrack before, but i can imagine with a screen size that small, and without the touch screen, u're gonna have a hard time selecting patches between songs.

since u're using SY99 at home, a great module to complement it would be another yamaha module - further down the line. EX5r or motif rack. can't go wrong with each of these for church playing.

you could also consider the triton rack, which has a more user-friendly interface than the TRrack.






if i were in your shoes, i'd just screw the whole synth thing and play piano sound alone.

 

[Cheez]

From my limited knowledge of midi, what I intend to do is:
1. a) MIDI IN of *module* to midi OUT of digi piano
1. b) MIDI IN of *small roland synth* to MIDI THRU of digi piano (optional)
2. Module's audio OUT to amp
3. Digi piano's audio OUT to amp
4. Pick a sound from module (e.g. pad)
5. Pick a sound from d-piano (e.g. e-piano)
6. Turn up volume on both, play and pray that it works!
7. If I don't need the sound from anyone, just turn down the volume

Setup not entirely correct - the midi part.

Midi thru transmit/echoes midi messages a device receives from midi in. So in your example, your roland synth will receive no midi signal from the digital piano.

First of all, let's confirm definition. When you say "roland synth", I gather you mean a synth keyboard, not a module. If this is the case, I wouldn't suggest daisy chaining of midi at all. Keep the Roland separate so you have more flexibility in playing, unless of course you want to layer sounds. If layering is not your objective, connection will be:

1. DP midi out -> sound module midi in
2. Roland synth - no midi connection (connect audio directly to mixer)

This will enable you to play 2 keyboards with 2 different sounds at the same time.

If you want to layer, then:

1. DP midi out -> roland synth midi in
2. Roland synth midi thru -> sound module midi in

The other important thing to add between your keyboards/modules and the amp is a small mixer. This is not the in-house mixer, but the personal keyboardist mixer. This is very important for keyboardists using several modules/keyboards especially when layering from different modules. If each of your instruments is sent to the main mixer via a separate audio connection, the balance of the different modules lies on the soundman. I never let the soundman meddle with my balance of sounds. For example, if you layer piano with some pads, you want the piano to be at a certain volumne and the pad at another volume - this balance is dynamic (pads can fade out and in while piano remains the same volume etc). If this control lies with the soundman, you'll get into trouble and a lot of frustration balancing the volume. The soundman can mix the overall volume of my instrument, but he never messes with the balance of my modules. So... keyboards and modules audio out should go into a small mixer controlled by you. You don't mess around with the general volume either (or the soundman will get frustrated) - you only control the balance of the modules and keyboards and send the overall audio output to the main mixer. Hope this makes sense.

 

[newbie100]

Re: sound module

reply to Quasar's Qns:

I thought that the XV stuff had all JV sounds in it + other newer sounds?

oh yes, XV modules supposed to have all JV voices;
but the way the engine is built. the ROM samples for XV
is 32MB which make it sound less the traditional warmer
Roland "Sample + Synthesis" sound. JV has only 8MB ROM.

Yep I know this one, but I do not have the budget to go and get the vintage card unless it costs me $50, which I strongly doubt

can try eBay US, UK, JP, DE, etc.
people now are giving up hardware,
hardware nowadays meant for performance.

Do you know if there is an SRX card equivalent to the 'Vintage' and 'Dance' SRJV cards?

Dance SRJV card is a sought after item now, high price in eBay;
because Roland went into some copyright licence trouble with some of the samples in the card, afterwhich the card is deleted from production.

However, alternate to Dance, now there is
SRX-08 Platinum Trax (combi of various SRJV techno dance cards)
SRX-05 Supreme Dance (new samples for XV)

SRJV Vinatge can be found in
SRX-07 Ultimate Keys (combi of difference SRJV samples)

These are a bit too expensive I haven't seen a Motif rack for sale yet, is it about the same price as an XV5080?

retail for XV5080 cost around $3500-4000.
used price $1200-1800.
alternate model XV3080.

not many people giving up Motif rack yet.
anyway the Motif rack is know for its MIDI timing bug,
in Motif ES rack the bug is solved.

Yep, but from what I read, the presets are very good (thus lessening the need for an expansion) and that there is a supplied software editor that works quite well. You think it sucks that badly?

the software for the trinity rack is Emagic SoundDiver,
now Emagic is busted and bought over by Apple. I think the
software is obsolete.

I was a Trinity user,
tried my friend's trinity rack
and it really suck bigtime.

it's okay unless you dun edit the patches.
anyway the trinity presents are still good - warm and digitalized.

:smt020 :smt038

 

[iansoh]

oh i should add; i just saw the part u posted abt midi-in-out-selecting-sound-on-piano-and-module-yada-yada.

when the midi connections are set, and u press a button to select sound on the clavinova, it sends these program change signals to the module. so the sounds will change on the module as well. doesn't sound like a big deal for now, but when u're actually playing in action it could potentially get irritating. if u don't want that to happen, u gotta ensure that your module can filter out program change signals. this is also why i said that yamaha module will complement yamaha controller well because the SY99 and ex5/motif units have similar uh, midi layout(is that the word to use?). i know im missing out a lot of explanations in the middle but i'm not sure its absolutely relevant to your queries so i'll explain later if u really want to hear it.

 

[Cheez]

Sorry, another question. What is the model of the "roland synth" you mentioned? If we know what the Yamaha digital piano and the roland synth are, it will help us give a more informed suggestion - since we don't want to double up on what is already being used (or sounds that's similar to what you already have).

 

[Cheez]

Iansoh, filtering program change signals isn't all that tough. Just need a little programming on the sound module part, or make sure the keyboard doesn't send it out.

I old setup which I used to use very often is: SY99, Roland JV1080, and Emu Proformance 1+ piano module.

Actually, using modules/keyboard from different brand names can be a plus. Gives a more varied sound since each has it's own strength and weaknesses. Yamaha sounds are so standard that it can get irritating at times. Even though I have the S90 now, I find most of the sounds have the SY99 feel to it, even though there are a number of new sounds. It must be the AWM and FM synthesis of Yamaha + their raw waveform. But again, Yamaha may not be a bad option since his key is church not home (unless I'm wrong). Roland pads are not that great.

It seems most church has a Trinity at one time or another - must be the name! I've used one in my church eons ago. It was the worse thing I've ever used. The sound is one thing - the touch is even worse!

 

[Indigo_blues]

yah i agree with cheez... should probably get a synth module of a different brand from the keyboard already to have more variety... same manufacturer will tend to have the same weaknesses..

btw my church never have trinity before so we're probably the only exception.. haha.. :lol:

 

[newbie100]

was there a Prophency or Prophet-5 ?

 

[Quasar]

Wow... no replies for some time then boom! This is really a great forum!

Sorry for this long post, but I combined replies to all of your posts, arranged in the order you replied to me:
1. iansoh
2. cheez
3. newbie100 (heh you're not a newbie

if i were in your shoes, i'd just screw the whole synth thing and play piano sound alone.

Heh, that's mostly what I've been doing, but after listening to some pros play, I feel that having good pads helps tremendously in setting the atmosphere.

Leads are sometimes important as we don't have an electric guitarist in our band and some of those planet shaker/hillsongs united songs require th

The flutes, strings, etc.. are nice to have, but i'm not at the advanced stage where I can use all of them without getting confused while playing!

...with a screen size that small, and without the touch screen, u're gonna have a hard time selecting patches between songs.

Thanks for the comments about the Trinity. I'm also worried about switching the sounds, but I assume that it must have a patch memory function somewhere, in which I can store 'shortcuts' to the patches I'm gonna use?

since u're using SY99 at home, a great module to complement it would be another yamaha module - further down the line.

I would've loved the motif, but I haven't seen one on sale in Singapore so far and it may be out of my budget (less than $500 if possible ).

Heh I guess you don't like the Rolands? There are lots of Rolands in my list because I heard that they work very well in conjunction with Yamaha keyboards.

when the midi connections are set, and u press a button to select sound on the clavinova, it sends these program change signals to the module. so the sounds will change on the module as well.

Totally forgot about that! I know the theory but I've never actually seen it in action as I've never used MIDI for anything yet. I hope it is possible to configure the module to ignore the MIDI patch change commands.

If you want to layer, then:
1. DP midi out -> roland synth midi in
2. Roland synth midi thru -> sound module midi in

Had a brain fart and typed digi keyboard instead of module. Yes my main intention is to layer a pad + piano sound, followed possibly by something from the Roland.

Keeping the roland separate is a good idea as well, although I must say I almost never use both keyboards together, unless I'm trying to get a pad sound. I have difficulty in multi-tasking and very often feel flooded when managing both two keyboards + their pedals

The other important thing to add between your keyboards/modules and the amp is a small mixer.

Great idea... any models to suggest? The second hand market I've seen so far only contains those models that cost 200-300... Sounds expensive for a 'personal mixer'. I guess they need just 3-5 inputs right? (maybe for me to add a mike in the future when @ home )

I was a Trinity user,
tried my friend's trinity rack
and it really suck bigtime.
it's okay unless you dun edit the patches.
anyway the trinity presents are still good - warm and digitalized.

Thanks man, you gave me a lot of useful answers! Those SRX cards do sound like they're worth having.

Can you give more details as to why the Trinity sucks, since you say the sounds are good? Is it due to crashes/reliability/difficulties in selecting sounds?

I may edit the sounds, but only from the comfort of my home, when I have lots of time to waste

 

[Cheez]

I really think that it's important to know what keyboards you are using in church before we can be more constructive (including the "roland synth"). I really don't think lead sounds are extremely important in church playing - except maybe some slow songs when you need flute or oboe, or in fast songs, some brass stabs here and there. If you are thinking of lead sounds and you are the only keyboardist, all your ideas about lead instruments may come to nothing if the Yamaha digital piano in your church is not able to split/assign zones. You can hook up the roland synth to the module to play leads, but because you also want to layer pads, your midi routing is going to be complicated, with quite a number of programming to do. You want to keep the piano/e-piano as the main instrument and others as support. My suggestion is forget about leads. Use what you have in your roland synth as your lead sounds. Pads are useful, but the most common "pad" we use is good strings. You can get very good effect with lush strings sounds particularly with added expression pedal control. There are other "new age" type of sounds that is usable, but most of the sound from the banks may not be appropriate.

Let's see what is the brand of your digital piano and roland synth. Then we can see how we can add things to complement it. Or maybe, this setup is sufficient; you may need to just program and edit some patches in the roland synth.

 

[newbie100]

Thanks man, you gave me a lot of useful answers! Those SRX cards do sound like they're worth having.
Can you give more details as to why the Trinity sucks, since you say the sounds are good? Is it due to crashes/reliability/difficulties in selecting sounds?
I may edit the sounds, but only from the comfort of my home, when I have lots of time to waste

oh? if you have time on your side, maybe the TR rack is suitable for you.
I mentioned it suck bigtime in terms of user interface since I was a Trinity user used to the big LCD screen interface.
Korg sound are famed for performance use especially the Combi mode.
artyman:

 

[Quasar]

I really think that it's important to know what keyboards you are using in church before we can be more constructive (including the "roland synth").

Let's see what is the brand of your digital piano and roland synth. Then we can see how we can add things to complement it. Or maybe, this setup is sufficient; you may need to just program and edit some patches in the roland synth.

Cheez, you prove to me again that we should really get to know our gear better, no matter how awful they may sound!

Guys, I'm really sorry for this let down.

Totally ashamed to say that the small synth we have in church is a KORG 01W/FD. I had a talk with someone who's in church and he looked up the model for me.

We put a large swathe of masking tape over the brand+model name so that we could write down notes and useful patches.

I must admit I had lost all respect for the it because I was so disappointed when I first played it - the preset sounds were awful... Strings too sharp, cheap-sounding pads, etc..

Yeah I even thought it was a Roland

I believe this may all be due to people messing up the sounds (we've had it for more than 10 years).

I will read up on this module, get the manuals, and find out how to get it to sound nice again.

Still, some keys are sticky and the audio out ports are not functioning as they should, so we'll mostly be controlling it through the digi-piano.

Hmm nevertheless, I'm still interested in knowing what you guys think of the modules I had listed for future reference, especially the 1080, the 2020, and the 5080 as I may purchase one of them later on.

The TR-Rack is not useful anymore, as the Korg 01/W FD will most probably have similar sounds.

Thanks for all your time!!

 

[Indigo_blues]

i can comment on the 1080 cause my church is still using one..

piano sounds: bad
e. piano sounds: ok.
pads/strings: good
organsk
hornsk
woodwinds:good

 

[Cheez]

And what digital piano is your church using?