Soft drum forum - a serious self examination

[RudimentalDrummer]

Thank you Frank

Facing the Facts will depends on the situation. As an example, Let’s says the Facts are “ so- & so Drummers sucks, or say so & so Guitarists sucks (assuming this is a fact)…and it was posted by someone here…..what would you do, if you’re a Moderator???? Face the Facts? Let It carry on? (the truth Hurts) ….. says we let it continue – what happens next is that there will be 2 groups of forumers bashing each other out – yes we get a 20 page or more Thread but is this of value here? - - - To face the Facts, since it is a fact will do more harm than good, so we stop it as preventive measures.

In life people move on - anyway, Soft will never be able to offer the best solution or have the most info to Drumming compared to DrummerWorld – because they have all the Professional Drummers there eg Chris Alder, Billy Ward, even the owner Bernhard knows Dennis Chamber and many Professionals so well, we could ask something, and Bernhard will tells us what Dennis said to him…..How can we compare, there is no justification to compare….but they are very very strict in the DrummerWorld Forum…you will get a warning from the Moderators if you are just using animated icons in posting. Oh and yes - I forgot - They had banned too many forumers there asking for "Freedom Of Speech".

So, I think, whether our Local Professional Drummers will start posting here at Soft have nothing to do with the way this Forum is being managed..There are many other factors / issues involved.

 

[plainsman]

well said rupert.

we are always shorthanded and will appreciate more participation and ownership from all.





jasper, i always see you making efforts to contribute to this forum. for that i am grateful. i don't see any issue if you get your fix from this forum or elsewhere.

after some time at this forum thing, i don't think it can ever really become a serious learning environment.

but lets not slug this because forums do serve a purpose, just not EVERY purpose. Forums cannot replace the serious learning environment. Forums cannot be everything for everyone.

Yes, it can be more productive, more organized, this takes effort and people's commitment changes from time to time. some guys leave this forum because of NS, enter workforce etc.

finally, it is a forum for ALL, including your average emo kid.

if we are to help educate these people, we still must give them the choice and let them decide, and not shove it down their throat.





i think jazz is such an important part of music history that no serious musician can afford not to learn about it.

however, not everyone is an aspiring serious musician, or the musically studious sort.

there are always some young punks who give bollocks about music history and just want to bang the skins.

and then there are exceptions. take billy sheehan. i'm not sure if i've ever seen him do any swing trio/quartet or big band stuff, but he's regarded as one of the best at what he does.

nobody's slamming him for not promoting or talking about jazz in magazine articles.

we need to be more broad minded and not paranoid that our own favourite music genre is not what the general public likes here.



i am not comfortable with the way jazz has been represented in this forum so far.

i think we can do better than to continue to perpetuate the image that "jazz is superior to other music forms"

 

[plainsman]

I think for a small community/country like ours, it's counter-productive to invite people to 'hang' online when we aren't all that far from each other. If we want to hang with someone, we can quite easily head to their gigs, buy them a drink, etc.

precisely.

i meet drummers all the time, some of them don't internet as much, or are not comfortable with the forum thing.

i myself feel damn lost at this myspace and facebook thing, and would prefer to get my bandmates to tong for me.

 

[jeepers]

Eric: With all due respect, being truthful doesn't mean hurtful comments/bashing would surface. Constructive criticism and choice words would work very well. Advice on how to improve would be excellent as well.

For me, I'm a person who prefers things to be given straight up. If I suck, I suck. No point living in my own fantasy world thinking I'm the best in the business when the truth is I'm downright crappy. That's pure stupidity. If anyone does think like that, I pity the fool.

It's harsh, but that's the only way to improve. If my faults are never identified and rectified, I'd always remain stagnant. I'll just stay in my comfort zone and never ever get a whole lot better.

I'll get the same treatment eventually when I learn under an instructor anyway.

So, I think, whether our Local Professional Drummers will start posting here at Soft have nothing to do with the way this Forum is being managed..There are many other factors / issues involved.

Perhaps. But wouldn't it great to have them contributing here though! I would love to see that day come.

Plainsman: Thanks for understanding.

Actually.. the fact that most (I'm guessing) drummers on SOFT are regulars on other, more established drumming forums, is only good for the development of SOFT, in a way. With the knowledge gained from other forums, we can share here whatever we have soaked up.

One of such is Weckl-x. He doesn't get the appreciation here he so deserves. Ever so resourceful, ever present when we require help/answers/reviews/information/etc.

 

[blueprintstudios]

jeepers : you're right I guess. I'll see how I can go around on my FAQ and test market abit.

 

[plainsman]

i am indeed very appreciative of weckl-x contributions, even though i didn't shout it out before.

thank you bro weckl-x.

but dont change whatever you do or want to do, now and in the future.

the choice is always yours.

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Eric: With all due respect, being truthful doesn't mean hurtful comments/bashing would surface. Constructive criticism and choice words would work very well. Advice on how to improve would be excellent as well.

Exactly bro jeepers being truthful doesn't mean hurtful. Constructive Criticism and choice of words is important - How it's being put across to the other party here in a nice and respectful way. All too often it does not, so we will step in if that happens.

 

[heavenbjorn]

There is a saying "Iron Sharpen Iron".

Honestly, i believe I have learn a lot from the people in SOFT... Their different perspectives and also exposure which of course brings myself to a whole new level and ideas... I can believe that everyone of us got our strengths which we can learn from, perhaps not just in drumming but also in character. Thx Guys...

 

[AvonRellets]

Mods, why not create a new section for *ahem* "Serious Discussions"

Make Blofeld a moderator of that section!

 

[drum_hobbyist]

Huh? Wasn't he saying something about drilling cymbals and buying lunch etc? Was that the ongoing topic here..or am I getting blurred myself? And who was he addressing his post to...? You're Fuman?

That's me

 

[reuben]

Woah.. serious topic which has been repeated again and again.

newbies - stop creating new threads and just use the search button <---------- (search soft)

Old timers - you guys were once like the newbies (or maybe not) just tolerate (is it that hard?), if you really cant learn anything new from this forum then start contributing what you learnt from the expert forums.

As a matter of fact, I do have a few ideas.. but I would let members toss this potato around a while before I comment further.

First thing to realise is that the big names are not here for good reasons....and one has to look at one's shortcomings first before planning how to attract them.

A 3-star hotel will not attract 5-star guests !

I think time to post some ideas dude... potato toss for quite awhile already, starting to get stale

 

[Vaiyen]

newbies - stop creating new threads and just use the search button <---------- (search soft)

Old timers - you guys were once like the newbies (or maybe not) just tolerate (is it that hard?), if you really cant learn anything new from this forum then start contributing what you learnt from the expert forums.

Very well-said Reuben. Your clarity of thought and inescapable logic is appreciated; your advice is really all that needs to be said on this issue.

 

[weckl-x]

jeepers & plainsman: Hey, thanks for the kind thoughts. I don't think I have much to offer, but what I do have is that I like to read about stuff. I've had others help me out when I started out, so I'll just pop in where I think I can contribute a word or two.

**Back to watching the Olympic games!

 

[Vaiyen]

we need more people like Weckl-x around. People who are sincere in helping and contributing and refuse to take credit,

and not those who wear a cloak of altruism but post only for their own egos.

 

[Blofeld]

Woah.. serious topic which has been repeated again and again.

Really..Must be in the old archives as I have not seen anything on this topic before..like to show me?

Old timers - you guys were once like the newbies (or maybe not) just tolerate (is it that hard?), if you really cant learn anything new from this forum then start contributing what you learnt from the expert forums.

It's not about tolerating newbies but provoking them to think about issues other than the usual stuff one sees all over this forum. Yes old farts were newbies once ..that's why we do not want them to reinvent the wheel. And newbies will grow old too...and hopefully wiser.

I think time to post some ideas dude... potato toss for quite awhile already, starting to get stale

Stale? The fun only just started. Just because you run out of words does not mean others do not have anything to say...in fact this thread has thrown up some members who have not posted for a long time. Potato not cooked yet...be patient.


[/I]

 

[Blofeld]

Mods, why not create a new section for *ahem* "Serious Discussions"

Make Blofeld a moderator of that section!

No need lah !

Discussions need not be serious all the time..just thought provoking and not a constant insult to one's intelligence and literacy.

I have to assume drummers are reasonably intelligent and educated people who can express their thoughts as easily as their drum rudiments and chops.

Let's not be unthinking drummers !

 

[Krist]

re : Deftones..

I would like to think that the following applies to intruments, across the board.

if you believe in yourself, in your ability, head down to the jam studio once a week, putting in 2 hours or so for practice purposes, research for new techniques to broaden the spectrum/increase your general knowledge but more importantly, apply them in your playing, turn up for gigs and learn from others, the question of requiring the star players will never surface.

there are two kinds of drummers in Soft.

1) those who reely reely, genuinely love drums and have the urge to want to play the kit but more often than not, we can't cos either we dun have a drum kit at home and/or jamming/practice prices are rising. FYI, this is not a 'i feel sorry for myself' theme. im simply being honest. the two hours haven't even up and the studio personnel is alrdy knocking on the door, pointing his last finger to you. LAST SONG.

2) those who buy all the equipment in the world, take pics of them, post in the forum, check the forum every 3 hours to see if anyone has 'praised' their setup/collection and finally at night, cover the ensemble with a big piece of cloth to prevent dust from forming. all you're tryin to tell me is that if u're head over heels for this particular gal, all u wanna do is put her in a glass panel and admire her for all the days of your life without attemting to do the usual la. get to know, x-change number, lunch, movie, dinner and ultimately bang bang.

my first love is drumming. i was ridiculed once for not knowing how to double bass, often being compared with other better drummers, having funny remarks hurled at me, etc.

i took it in my stride. headed down to a particular jam studio once a week, two hours at a stretch, practising RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLR. and walla, the same pple who insulted me suddenly passed favourable judgement about my sudden improvement.

question is, who are they to judge me?

being the sort to be silent, i moved away from these pple and looking back, im happy.

i had difficulty looking for like minded musicians to form a band for a variety of reasons. being in the uniform organisation, u never noe when u'll be recalled to the base, etc. and also, i simply cldn't find the right pple.

i suddenly had the desire to learn the guitar. i figured, why shld i be putting in so much effort to look for the 'right pple/begging pple to try out a particular tune on the guitar after i hum the tune to them when i can just learn how to play the tunes that i have in my head and record them, etc.

with the advice and guidance of 2 gd frens, i purchased an LTD M50. i started goin for lessons, changed the pickups, built up my pedal arsenal and looking back, im happy.

however, i kept a low profile till only now bout going for lessons. u'll be surprised how low pple can get to just defuse the interest that u have to learn something. im for real! very very weird.

they fabricated stories that i allegedly said that Gibsons are lousier than LTDs'. i was sad when i heard bout these false accusations but i realised, these buggers are empty vessels who are so afraid of pple being able to do something in a short amount of time. fine example wld be me.

all i said was i didn't like the feel and the look of Gibsons. my gf has a Gibson. i din even noe it was a Gibson till much later. well, i mean, come on la, i noe nuts bout guitars and brands and stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

someone posted something about egos. well, to that person, i have one thing to ask. are u trying to tell me that u never fail to keep your self-esteem in check? i mean, if its not in check, it hits a certain temperature and spills over to the ego level waaaaaaaaat. so dun bullshit all of us, and yourself included.

the person who started this post was merely citing an issue and even had the 'heart' to encourage opinions from both ends. all the more, you shld cut him some slack.

bottomline, why depend on others when u can do it on your own?

if u dun believe me, the next time u practice, start recording, create some random stuff, keep working on the diff parts, come up with a draft version, play it again, stop the recording and play-it-back.

there is always youtube and several websites to see how others play, their techniques, their opinions and advice, etc.

look at the westerners in youtube and all. they practice hard, record their stuff, upload it to share with others and repeat the cycle. they make frens with like minded individuals and improve their skill levels.

here, its about 'eh, when the swee lee sale la', 'hi guys, check out my setup', 'i found this vintage strat copy at sungei rd', etc.

don't steer away from the main aim.

to have fun, unwind, learn, improve and most importantly, share with others.

peace!

 

[lester_music]

to me...forum is just one of the many tools.......cannot totally depend on it to become a good musician though I have learn much from here.....

proper channel is still seeking advice direct from the pros...paying a fees, (for they need to make a living too)....buying books, & so many other sources available.....

 

[Blofeld]

=lester_music


Indeed !

I was playing drums in a band decades before internet forums were even dreamed of.

But my point is simply this... this forum claims to promote the betterment of the drumming community in Singapore yada yada...and I am simply questioning whether it is going the right direction with the kind of emphasis that is fast becoming obvious here.

Any community needs to be balanced with the right proportion of young, old, skilled, newbies, teachers, talkers, and yes..even bullshit artists !!

Looking at the composition of its members, one can be forgiven for thinking that this is the Drummer's Youth Wing of Singapore. Please say I am wrong.

 

[Blofeld]

=Krist

Actually there are more than the 2 kinds you listed. May I ?

3. Those who love just the IDEA of being a drummer because their friends think it's cool..because they cannot play another musical instrument anyway...because the drummer is sooo visible and stylo....BUT are not really serious or committed enough to pay their dues and make the effort to learn the craft. These fade away when something more attractive comes along to take away their attention.

4. Those who have been around the scene for so long that drumming is no longer a daily/hourly obsession anymore, but becomes another hobby or pleasant pastime...who got better things to do than practising to achieve the fastest single stroke roll, and who prefers to hang out with more intersting musos like bassists, pianists, gutarists and horn players. In other words they prefer making music, than just banging away at the drums.

5. Those who see Soft as a lucrative hunting ground for impressionable newbie students for their drum schools or courses...who uses it to promote all sorts of goods and services related to the art of drumming.

6. Those who are too lazy to google for info, attend a drum course or buy the mags and books to further their drumming knowledge..but hope to get free advice from other people in this forum.

Did I miss out any ?