Soft drum forum - a serious self examination

[Blofeld]

Please do not read this as an attempt to denigrate this forum, and if I sound critical, please take it in a constructive way.

I have often been perplexed as to the real objectives of this forum. By any yardstick it has been successful in signing up so many members, and also generating a fair amount of discussions in the various threads here. It has also held many well attended drum related events, and no doubt has been a useful platform for many newbie drummers.

The forum's moderators take great pains to promote this place as a platform where drummers can get together, exchange ideas and information, and advance the agenda for drummers in Singapore ( Sorry..my words..pls feel free to correct)

Noble aspirations but how realistic?

Look at the composition of the membership:

The great majority of the 200+ (?) members here are young newbie drummers...full of enthusiasm to be the next drum hero....or at least the next Talent Quest participant.

There's a handful of working professionals (no need to name names) and a few drum teachers. There are also a few serious hobbyists and perhaps the odd old timer (I don't see any except yours truly)

Glaringly missing by their absence in this forum, and seldom seen in your drum exchanges..are the really experienced and competent pros..the first-call sessionists..and the drummers who are working 6 nights a week. Let me name some names since this phenomena is true...where is Jimmy Lee...Tama...Pragasam...Tony Zee...Henson Beng...Louis Soliano...Boon Gee...Mat Nor...Fairoz...and some of the locally based expats like Shawn Kelley, Darrell Irvin, Eddie Layman...but to name a few !!

True true..some of them have appeared at your drum exchanges as guests but why are they not contributing to this forum ? Even Ahpek( Shaferi)...who used to run a forum of his own back then...is conspicuously silent and absent here. Others like Kenny Hogan were virtually hounded out of this forum ( for reasons I am not too clear about)

All these experienced pros have much to contribute to the youngsters here but none have bothered to even be members - let alone contribute.

WHY ??

IMHO one does not have to look further than the typical mindless content in most of the threads posted here (ouch !! sorry hor ), and the low tolerance of candid opinions in the "interest" of forum harmony. This has the unfortunate effect of dragging the quality of discussions to the Lowest Common Factor (read : boring)

So what can aspiring drummers really hope to learn from this forum that they cannot get reading Modern Drummer or attending a Drum School? Isn't it a case of the blind leading the blind ..or worse still.. the blind being conned by those who have one eye ?

Or perhaps this forum is really doing a great job serving a less serious purpose...providing a platform for socialising and getting to know drummers of the opposite sex...or promoting the services of anyone who feel they are good enough to teach drums and charge a fee (refer my comment about one eyed jacks)

Whatever the case may be, isn't it time to pause and take stock to see where you are all headed?

This is only my opinion....nothing personal...you are entitled to disagree with me.

 

[soft]

Hi Blofeld

Thank you for your feedback.

Do you have any suggestion as to how we can attract "Jimmy Lee...Tama...Pragasam...Tony Zee...Henson Beng...Louis Soliano...Boon Gee...Mat Nor...Fairoz...and some of the locally based expats like Shawn Kelley, Darrell Irvin, Eddie Layman..." to participate actively in this forum?

 

[Blofeld]

As a matter of fact, I do have a few ideas.. but I would let members toss this potato around a while before I comment further.

First thing to realise is that the big names are not here for good reasons....and one has to look at one's shortcomings first before planning how to attract them.

A 3-star hotel will not attract 5-star guests !

 

[drum_hobbyist]

From my perspective, this forum is a platform to Engage, Exchange and Encourage. Everybody is busy in many ways and it is a matter of priority. It is about taking initiative to execute the 3 Es. If other drummers doesn't see the value of this forum, it is their choice, to each his/her own. It could be that they doing the 3 Es outside of this forum. They may have their own small circles.

This is not a hotel. This is a home for drummers. Home is about relationships. Relationships take effort to make it work. A 3-room flat can be a happier home than a one in a bungalow.

We should see beyond this forum. For one, I have opened my home a few times for all who wish to visit and have a great time.

All I want to say that it is great to relate with some of the regulars on screen and in person.

 

[blurred]

hey fuman, i think its awesome that u helped alvin drill his cymbals. hey man i might need some drilling and cutting done on one of my wuhans. i'd buy u lunch and u can drill me on funk drumming.

 

[jeepers]

Finally.

It'd be perfect, wouldn't it, Blofeld? Pros, hobbyists, beginners, all fellow drummers in gathering together participating in active discussion. I've always wanted that.

Like you, I've questioned the content on the various sub-sections of the drum forum. I still question it today. Seriously a good part of the topics are bullshit, really, IMHO. Also, if you notice, posts on the various drum sections are usually by the same few people.

The problem is as you said - the lack of experienced drummers surfing this forum regularly.

Look at Cymbalholic for example. It's a perfect online haven for drummers, IMHO. It's very much like a home. Everyone's comfortable with each other. There's a good mix of fun, small talk and serious in-depth discussion and valuable information circulating the site. Why so? The members there are experienced mature drummers who have done their fair share of gigs, tours and recordings.

Oh yeah, another problem, IMHO, is the level of censorship here in this forum. Take this thread as an example. Were there bright spots of serious discussions? Hell yeah. Those were quickly interrupted though.

It's not that I do not appreciate the work of James, Eric, Alfe and the others here on SOFT, but I believe I've exhausted the resources I can obtain from here. My apologies.

 

[Blofeld]

Living up to your nick eh ? Seems you are on the wrong thread...

hey fuman, i think its awesome that u helped alvin drill his cymbals. hey man i might need some drilling and cutting done on one of my wuhans. i'd buy u lunch and u can drill me on funk drumming.

 

[Blofeld]

=drum_hobbyist

Agree and disagree...

This forum is indeed a platform and of course there are other similar forums around. My lament was why this platform seem to have only attracted mostly young newbies and beginners but the really experienced and big names have stayed away? If so it really cannot lay claim to be the among the leading drum forums around.

This is more of a hotel lobby than a home... everybody here is on a certain dress code and behaviour. If this was one's home, one can walk around in one's underwear...or belch loudly ..without being chastised by people you don't even know. Do not confuse the comforts and warmth of home with the artificially sustained environment of a hotel lobby.

You get to choose who you invite to your home. This here is a hotel lobby for drummers...but regretably we only see many kids and some posers most of the time. Where are the celebrities ?

How do we progress if we keep fraternising among our equals ? How do we see the sky if we keep wallowing in our own little well?

Yes we should look beyond....sometimes I wonder why I even bother !

 

[plainsman]

I think the forum reflects the collective state of its inhabitants.

As much as we (forum's administrators and moderators) can encourage and motivate, it is up to the collective, and the individual at the end of the day.



For some of you: ask not what your forum can do for you, but what you can do for your forum.

For some of you: think carefully before you write something and click post. watever we all write has an effect on others.

you can't just say you just write whatever you want and heck care what other people think.

some of the words can be insinuating, insulting, slanderous. i've held myself back from action many a time because ultimately i think we must let people decide whose views they think they can accept, and whose they reject.




As many of you know me in person, you know I mean this in good faith.

I only hope some of you will continue to make an effort to continue to build up this home, and treat each other with respect and love.

The last sentence can mean a lot, and only if you really care.

 

[blueprintstudios]

blofeld : hi, i'm almost never in the drumsection, but I saw this on the main soft page. i'm saying this not only for drums, but i believe the problem of "missing professionals" exists in other sections be it pro audio / computer / guitar/bass/drums/vocals.

if I was a 'professional', and honestly I did ask some of my "professional friends" to join in soft forum, the direct reply I had was : "waste of time, I got work to do" or "I only go to the other EXPERT forums to get my problems solved." , and if I was generous to use my time to help/guide and get people to pay it forward , yes the world will probably be a little better place than usual. but unfortunately there are only 14 available hours a day (8 hours sleep 2 hours eat/shit) , outside of this forum we have our own lives/job(s). and often the newbies unfortunately do expect to be SPOONFED, and that is demoralising for someone who wants to help.

noticed I mentioned "EXPERT forums" ? yes probably that is what we're lacking here. i actually view SOFT forum as an overall general stepping-stone forum for newbies (if you're here to start learning) and for social purposes (there are alot of nice people here). experts wouldn't wanna waste their time here answering noob questions. i'm sure experts themselves would hang out at expert forums to learn even MORE. that's productive. I believe there're high "levelled" forums out there whether is it for computers (hardwarezone) / guitars / audiorecording (ohoh HELL loads) / drums etc. this is not the place.

I mean all these could change with your suggestion, if we had one top global expert in any music instrument field join up with soft forum. other "experts" would be attracted to join in a place where this "celebrity" hangs out. that could all turn into something really beneficial and positive.

20¢ worth

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

It is True and there is no denial that Jimmy Lee, Tama, and all those Professional Drummers that you have mentioned is not here in Soft.

As mentioned by you too, some appeared and participate in DXS once in a while to share with the rest of the drummers. But as to why, these Professionals are not contributing to this forum is simply because they are Professionals ( there are many reasons behind since I did spoke to them ). Being busy teaching for them on a Saturday is one of the reasons, One Professional drummer that took out his time and contribute here (This I appreciate even long before I became his student) is Alvin. Brandon Khoo is another too here.

Today anyone can get access to the Internet and get many materials on Drumming (much more than what anyone can get from Soft Forum in a discussion)…..thus DXS was form for Drummers to meet up and do Exchanges.

The objective of having Forum Harmony has no bearings on (Why those Professional Drummers did not participate here within this Forum). As mentioned many times, The World Largest and No.1 forum is “DrummerWorld” - - ask anyone here - - as to whether DrummerWorld being No.1 Drum Forum in the World was indeed attributed to their high tolerance of opinion or their low tolerance (even more strict than Soft here) ? – This is undeniable based on the numbers of people banned there. In fact Soft is more tolerant than DrummerWorld.

Soft as a Cyber Home does exercises Tolerance, but to a certain degree only especially not on Bashing, Framing, Rude etc etc when conversing here. Exchange of ideas are good for any forum but it depends on how one’s put that across because this can cause war and our job is to try to evade all these necessaries.


Yes Soft is providing a Platform for Drummers (Male & Female alike) to socialize & discuss about drumming in this Cyber Space and DXS for Physical Meetup. Of course Soft too act as a Platform for Instructors and students here. This is strictly between the Instructors & anyone contemplating to learn – They have a free will to choose.

Soft is definitely not a Hotel Lobby but a Home actually, accept for some – YES MAYBE, it depends, for Fly-By-Night Forumers will treat this as a Hotel Lobby (create a Nuisance – then off they go and leave us with plenty of cleaing to do) they couldn’t care less, but many forumers here does treat this as their home…..It really depends on who? And how they think? Anyway, even if this is one’s home it doesn’t means there will be no House-Rules where one can wear their undies and walk around freely.

Because of above reasons (Fly-By-Night kind of attitude or trouble maker that comes & go) - - Here they are ask to leave…but everyone is invited here freely but they have to abide by the House-Rules that’s all.

PS: Frank, if I'm not wrong what you're trying to put across is That The Way We (Soft) Managed The Forum (on Low-Tolerance Level) was the cause of the low-level of Professionals\ Drummers posting here, am I right.

 

[jeepers]

I think the forum reflects the collective state of its inhabitants.

As much as we (forum's administrators and moderators) can encourage and motivate, it is up to the collective, and the individual at the end of the day.

That's it. It basically says how comfortable we (the good part of the regulars on SOFT) are,regardless of whichever level of drumming/musicality we are at, doesn't it. That shouldn't be the case.
I'm not comfy with where I am right now.

I only hope some of you will continue to make an effort to continue to build up this home, and treat each other with respect and love.

I have respect and love for the members here, or at least those whom I've met and regularly kept in contact with. Members like yourself, Eric, Mel80, Spinninsticks, Reuben, caijunlong and more. All great people and it's been an absolute honour and pleasure to meet such wonderful people and musicians.

if I was a 'professional', and honestly I did ask some of my "professional friends" to join in soft forum, the direct reply I had was : "waste of time, I got work to do" or "I only go to the other EXPERT forums to get my problems solved." , and if I was generous to use my time to help/guide and get people to pay it forward , yes the world will probably be a little better place than usual. but unfortunately there are only 14 available hours a day (8 hours sleep 2 hours eat/shit) , outside of this forum we have our own lives/job(s). and often the newbies unfortunately do expect to be SPOONFED, and that is demoralising for someone who wants to help.

Exactly. I've asked many drummer friends to join the forum, the answer I get, word for word, BPS' received reply.

And yes, the "newbies" issue. Browsing the drum sections, I can easily find at least a handful of such threads being created for answers that would only require a less-than-five-words google searches and roughly three and a half minutes of your life.

Such threads are a waste of bandwidth, and also pushes far more important threads (informative/reviews/yada yada) down the pages.

noticed I mentioned "EXPERT forums" ? yes probably that is what we're lacking here. i actually view SOFT forum as an overall general stepping-stone forum for newbies (if you're here to start learning) and for social purposes (there are alot of nice people here). experts wouldn't wanna waste their time here answering noob questions. i'm sure experts themselves would hang out at expert forums to learn even MORE. that's productive. I believe there're high "levelled" forums out there whether is it for computers (hardwarezone) / guitars / audiorecording (ohoh HELL loads) / drums etc. this is not the place.

There's only one local forum (SOFT) that's dedicated to drummers, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I mean all these could change with your suggestion, if we had one top global expert in any music instrument field join up with soft forum. other "experts" would be attracted to join in a place where this "celebrity" hangs out. that could all turn into something really beneficial and positive.

Yup. Now that we've identified a major boo-boo, the question is how do we go about attracting such experts to hang here with us. They are already as busy as it is. As Blofeld mentioned, they're working 6 nights a week. And not forgetting that they've got students to teach as well in whatever other free time they have in their already packed schedule.

 

[drum_hobbyist]

Living up to your nick eh ? Seems you are on the wrong thread...

Haha... Blurred is not blur... i don't see that he is in the wrong thread... his underlining statement is about making effort to engage, exchange and encourage... he going to put words into action

 

[weckl-x]

I think for a small community/country like ours, it's counter-productive to invite people to 'hang' online when we aren't all that far from each other. If we want to hang with someone, we can quite easily head to their gigs, buy them a drink, etc.

 

[Blofeld]

PS: Frank, if I'm not wrong what you're trying to put across is That The Way We (Soft) Managed The Forum (on Low-Tolerance Level) was the cause of the low-level of Professionals\ Drummers posting here, am I right.

Eric...you have missed the point altogether.

Low tolerance is not the primary problem.

It's what you tolerate and what you do not tolerate that makes the difference.

There seems to be a high tolerance for inane postings and no brainer issues that does absolutely no benefit for serious drummers here. You may say that this is to be expected since many are young and new to drumming here...but that alone is no excuse for wallowing in mediocrity.

There is a high degree of sensitivity to any controversial issues, even if such attempt to rectify or improve existing shortcomings. We are all far from perfect, and sometimes the truth can hurt. To get overly defensive is as bad as being too aggressive. But to face facts is sometimes the most difficult pill to swallow.

You may or may never get the celebrity drummers to post here...that remains to be seen even if you set about to "reform" the forum...but I think the question is where you want this forum to go?

As some members have already pointed out...they have extracted as much as they can from here and there is little else this place has to offer except perhaps a platform for social interaction.

I for one have actually received little benefit from this forum but I try to contribute my 2 cents worth to provoke the mental juices and expressive skills.

Many of your better drummers will eventually move on to more challenging forums as they tire of the juvenile offerings here.

How do you improve upon your success? Or are you content to remain as a forum for newbies and wannabes ?

 

[Blofeld]

Haha... Blurred is not blur... i don't see that he is in the wrong thread... his underlining statement is about making effort to engage, exchange and encourage... he going to put words into action

Huh? Wasn't he saying something about drilling cymbals and buying lunch etc? Was that the ongoing topic here..or am I getting blurred myself? And who was he addressing his post to...? You're Fuman?

 

[blueprintstudios]

>>There's only one local forum (SOFT) that's dedicated to drummers, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

err is it? wah sian jipua. then that means the more expert drummers are on the global forums learning rather than staying on SOFT guiding newbies wasting their time?

in terms of pro audio, even for audiorecording issues/questions, SOFT's recording section is also quite more for newbies usually. other places like http://focalproaudio.com/forum/have their own audio engineers + SAE students sharing more "detailed" stuff with each other. and probably too technical for average softies who just (demand) wanna record a decent demo. I mean , I could have just joined up there and learn way more from ppl with like minded experience. but I enjoy helping and guiding ppl/bands here at soft (you can read most of my past posts at least 60% is out to answer ppl's questions) don't ask me why, I believe as O+ blood type and I'm limited to a 1+ gallon to donate, but knowledge and goodwill is infinite which is probably why I do the things I do. people will listen to you because they want to know. believe me I've tried "guiding" MY FRIENDS and they take me for granted/don't want to listen. thats why I'd rather share with "Strangers" on soft forum. what do I ask for in return? pass it on. unless you wanna give me money haha.

so yes it's unfortunate that (I just tried googling) there isn't any local drum forum thing other than SOFT. maybe it's a matter of time when an expert will start the ball rolling and join in.

what I would like to suggest since we're talking about this though, as what jeepers have said, the important threads disappear as new nonsense topics come up. and we can't sticky EVERY damn thread that's useful either. so what came to my mind is is it possible to create this MEGAHELP THREAD in each section "audio/computer/drum/bass/guitar/vox" as a sticky for all the threads that should be stickies. e.g
Q:"how to record at home?"
A:"buy this and that. do this and that."
Reply : "thanks! it worked!"
so we make this a mini-sticky.

the "answered" thread becomes old but permanent.

we start this megasticky , and put the text :
"Recording At Home" > links to the old mini sticky.
(it's been rephrased as "recording at home" instead of "how to record at home" as a general situation description for ppl to search easily)
along with other sub sticky links like :
"latency issues"
"condenser or dynamic?"
"what's the best soundcard/mic within my budget?"
etc. but of course the sticky will become cluttered with these simple questions, so for example my DIY Recording FAQ alone will answer all of the related general questions together. it's funny how now I recall this suggestion of mine is what james (soft) was trying to do, that WIKIPEDIA thing. but it had login bugs. and it may get erased by vandals etc without proper supervision.
so simply, if we can create a mega FAQ sticky to answer all the simple questions. then hopefully it will make room for something more "technical" stuff to be brought into discussion? this one i don't know. there will be a better idea i'm sure but at least i feel the newbiequestionflood problem can be solved the way I suggested.

 

[blueprintstudios]

"Or are you content to remain as a forum for newbies and wannabes ?" <-- this isn't going to change overnight that's for sure , not even in a month.

actually we are the "newbies and wannabes" once a point of time in our lives. so it isn't all that bad. after all SOFT i believe is trying to encourage the passion of music/etc. and that passion has to start with a newbie.

i believe james has been asked many times "soft.com.sg, ok now WHAT NEXT?"

problems pointed out, whether is it minor or major, now we can give everything a shot as long as it isn't sacrificial. anything that can be beefed up to touched up just go for it.also the thing is, who's gonna do it?

 

[rla]

Hi blofled,

I don't think we have met cos ive been really inconsistent in coming to the forum cos of work and such.

In anycase, i would urge you to approach the committee and james over a meal or coffee and talk about how to make the forum more interactive and educational. Please understand that this forum is a very young creature that needs to be nudged in the right direction. This forum could grow further, stagnate or even die out but there are some ppl who are committed to make this forum work.

This forum means different things to different people so i urge tolerance to the newbies and part-time posers.

Lastly, this forum has given some of us more exposure to a drumming community than anything has before so lets not unintentinally discourage the newbies and posers because drumming is for everyone and like this forum, it just needs to be nutured.

Tama G, Alfie, Alvin ,Mark C, Boon Ghee, Audrey, Brandon K and so many other pro drummers have already made an appearance to the drum-exchange and im sure there's more to come.

It would be cool if you could also come down sometime and appreciate how the exchange impacts its members. It's a scary but awesome vibe to be amongst fellow drummers talking, breathing and playing drums for 4 hours straight!!

My humble opinion

rla Aka Rupert

 

[jeepers]

blueprintstudios: In response to latter half of #17, it would create a whole lot more work for James and his team of moderators.

To go through each thread individually to decide how worthy the thread is of sticky status. Then they'll have to sieve through the respective posts in the thread and delete the unnecessary comments that we see ever so often in the mother loads of threads here on SOFT.