Scales, scales, scales

[Raistmar]

So wait, whats the use of circle of fifths? And the chord construction thing, does it only apply to the Major scale (1 3 5, and so on and so forth)? Also, how are the scales relative to a chord progression? Like for example you're on the key of Cmaj, how would I know which scales I can use apart from Cmaj and Amin.

And thanks for the tip! great help.

 

[kym]

this is coolz.

 

[karlie]

So wait, whats the use of circle of fifths? And the chord construction thing, does it only apply to the Major scale (1 3 5, and so on and so forth)? Also, how are the scales relative to a chord progression? Like for example you're on the key of Cmaj, how would I know which scales I can use apart from Cmaj and Amin.

And thanks for the tip! great help.

In my opinion, the circle of fifths is a very good way to remember intervals and sometimes progressions as well. You can look this up " John coltrane cycle ".

With regards to chord construction. It applies to a lot of scales.
For example you can take any random scale. and apply the formula.
Lets take the Cmaj Scale.
its a 1 3 5 for a maj chord.
So playing the notes C E G will give you the Cmaj chord.

You can actually go out of the box and create your own formulas
Like you can have a 1 3 5 6 (C E G A) which will be the equivalent of an Cmaj6 because of the added 6 in the chord.

However, there are some pointers to note. The 3rd will determine if the chord will be major or minor or Suspended.

1 3 5 = Major Chord
1 b3 5 = Minor Chord
1 4 5 = Sus4 chord
1 2 5 = Sus2 chord.

The third gives the chord its special sound so actually you can play around with a scale till your happy. But remember! If you think what you're doing sounds nice and you can't find any theory on it, just ignore the theory, what matters is that you feel the thing you are playing is nice.

With regards to playing different scales in Cmaj and Amin, you can actually think in terms of chords (Arpeggios). This is just one of the many ways to think so this is very debatable
Lets say you have a chord progression Cmaj, Amin, Fmaj, Gmaj.
You play around with the notes of the chords. In other words, Arpeggios. Play around with the Arpeggios and add notes here and there to make colorful sounds. Arpeggios are basically broken up chords, its the same as 1 3 5.

Hence over Cmaj, you could emphazise on C E G
Over Amin, you could emphazise on A C E
Over Fmaj, you could emphasize on F A C
Over Gmaj, you could emphasize on G B D

and if you noticed, all the notes here can be found in Cmaj. I think it was mentioned in the earlier post. It'll be great if you could start on the chordtones and end on the chordtones as well. it'll make a melody, solo quite tasteful.

Hoped this helped!

 

[Raistmar]

Thanks. This is going to help me alot!

 

[karlie]

Thanks. This is going to help me alot!

feel free to ask more!

 

[cold_static544]

one thing to "know" a scale, another thing to use it well.

i think, just knowing the major scale and all its modes plus the major/minor pentatonic can get you very far. provided you can use it well.

 

[kdash]

The third gives the chord its special sound so actually you can play around with a scale till your happy. But remember! If you think what you're doing sounds nice and you can't find any theory on it, just ignore the theory, what matters is that you feel the thing you are playing is nice.

+1 to that! i think a more interactive way to learn would be to experiment around with the different notes until you find something that sounds nice and fits with the song/tune/melody. the detailed theory can come in later.

not to dispel the importance of solid music theory, but sometimes people do get put off by the amount of things that need to be learnt and hence give up easily.

most importantly, you have to enjoy the process of learning! press on!

 

[Raistmar]

I have a very heuristic approach when it comes to learning things that interest me. So if anyone wants to add anything else, please do go on.

I also believe that music is such a vast topic that it is still shrouded with mystery and the only way to unlock it bit by bit is by combining your subconscious (where your creative juice comes from) with your consciousness (parts that have been unlocked by previous musicians; music theory).

 

[karlie]

yes! haha i used to have a friend saying. There is only music theory, there isn't music law. Hence what you know as C maj now might actually be passed down as a musical law in future to be known as Dmaj, but I don't think that'll happen haha.

 

[lester_music]

one thing to "know" a scale, another thing to use it well.

i think, just knowing the major scale and all its modes plus the major/minor pentatonic can get you very far. provided you can use it well.

Yes...how to use it....means you cannot always think scale...but think melody or licks or phrases.....a term we called phrasing....it is like when we are talking...we think in sentence...not in words..it is the same as soloing....

You have to intentionally create a phrase out from that scale..and occasionally you may go out of the scale.....THat is call the passing note...just passing thru..and then back to the original scale again..lotsa things can happen in music..there are no rules..

Occasionally, use raking, slides, hammer-ons, pull offs etc to your solo...

Hope that helps..hehe

 

[karlie]

Yes...how to use it....means you cannot always think scale...but think melody or licks or phrases.....a term we called phrasing....it is like when we are talking...we think in sentence...not in words..it is the same as soloing....

You have to intentionally create a phrase out from that scale..and occasionally you may go out of the scale.....THat is call the passing note...just passing thru..and then back to the original scale again..lotsa things can happen in music..there are no rules..

Occasionally, use raking, slides, hammer-ons, pull offs etc to your solo...

Hope that helps..hehe

haha yes I agree! +1

they say if you do things in confidence, your never wrong, this is especially true in jazz, if you wanna play a certain phrase that involves alot of chromatic passing notes and if not done in confidence, the phrase might sound very shoddy. this is also true in rock. haha. makes a solo.riff. all the more interesting

 

[djasli]

erm true, but in my opinion, if you can highlight the chordtones + the few notes (or note) that makes it different then you'll get a certain color. for example. erm, Fmaj7 - emphazing on the F A B C E will give u a lydian sound, especially the B, its all about the phrasing for me. Its diatonic & you'll get a lydian sound out of it. haha. my opinion only though

I.E The Famj 7 Arpeggio with an added B

E -------------------------12-
B ---------------10-12-13----
G ----------9-10-------------
D ---7-9-10------------------
A -8-------------------------
E ---------------------------

The notes are all from the Cmaj scale but yet (IMO) it gives off a certain color, in this case the lydian color haha

hmm,

interesting, this.

just asking, bro.

isn't this just a plain old Fmaj11 chord? 1 3 5 7 (4)? in the key of C major?

to me, this just siloing in th key of C.

now, if you wanna do something in C Lydian, these are the chords progresssion and the formula:

1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 8
C D E F# G A B C

Cmaj7 D7 Emin7 F#min7(b5) Gmaj7 Amin7 Bmin7 .

as oppose to C Maj (Ionion)

Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bmin7(b5)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
C D E F G A B C
----------------------------------

In Lydian, the aug 4th (#4) is the key. A very unstable note that needs to resolve, in this case, using the II chord (D7) as its Dominant back to root, or to go somehere else, using the Dom as a divert chord, anything you want, actually. A Dom chord itself has a aug 4 interval between the 3rd and 7th -- F# to C.

Watch a scary movie. I bet you'd hear some Lydian passages....


Forgive me for being presumptous.

 

[fuzztremecho]

mr djasli
please spare 'em

we are not worthy
*bows down*

hehehehe

 

[karlie]

hmm,

interesting, this.

just asking, bro.

isn't this just a plain old Fmaj11 chord? 1 3 5 7 (4)? in the key of C major?

to me, this just siloing in th key of C.

now, if you wanna do something in C Lydian, these are the chords progresssion and the formula:

1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 8
C D E F# G A B C

Cmaj7 D7 Emin7 F#min7(b5) Gmaj7 Amin7 Bmin7 .

as oppose to C Maj (Ionion)

Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bmin7(b5)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
C D E F G A B C
----------------------------------

In Lydian, the aug 4th (#4) is the key. A very unstable note that needs to resolve, in this case, using the II chord (D7) as its Dominant back to root, or to go somehere else, using the Dom as a divert chord, anything you want, actually. A Dom chord itself has a aug 4 interval between the 3rd and 7th -- F# to C.

Watch a scary movie. I bet you'd hear some Lydian passages....


Forgive me for being presumptous.

hey bro,

haha i understand where you're coming from. hmm perhaps let me explain my thinking
do correct me if i'm wrong though, still learning haha.

Technically the way i thought of this would be that I would just want to create the lydian sound, so technically I guess I would say i'm playing F lydian instead, well for the sake of creating the lydian sound.

I guess you could say that in the progression you gave above for C lydian
" Cmaj7 D7 Emin7 F#min7(b5) Gmaj7 Amin7 Bmin7 " = The G diatonic chord progression (technically) starting from the sub-dominant chord. My thinking was more directed towards playing in Cmaj, using F lydian instead, haha or in other words play in F lydian.

haha okay i don't know if i'm confusing cause i tend to go a few rounds when trying to explain things

cheers man!

 

[karlie]

hmm,

isn't this just a plain old Fmaj11 chord? 1 3 5 7 (4)? in the key of C major?

oh i do have a question though, in this scenario, for this chord, do we consider the chord diatonic? as in,

In the key of Fmaj, Fmaj11 = F A C E Bb
In the key of Cmaj, Fmaj11 = F A C E B
or should we see it as Fmaj7#11 while in Cmaj?

haha got rather confused thinking about it.

 

[djasli]

I made a mistake:

" isn't this just a plain old Fmaj11 chord? 1 3 5 7 (4)? in the key of C major? "

will read: F A C E + Fmaj7 with a B = Fmaj7(#11)

= 1 3 5 7 (#4)
F A C E B
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[djasli]

hey bro,

haha i understand where you're coming from. hmm perhaps let me explain my thinking
do correct me if i'm wrong though, still learning haha.

Technically the way i thought of this would be that I would just want to create the lydian sound, so technically I guess I would say i'm playing F lydian instead, well for the sake of creating the lydian sound.

I guess you could say that in the progression you gave above for C lydian
" Cmaj7 D7 Emin7 F#min7(b5) Gmaj7 Amin7 Bmin7 " = The G diatonic chord progression (technically) starting from the sub-dominant chord. My thinking was more directed towards playing in Cmaj, using F lydian instead, haha or in other words play in F lydian.

haha okay i don't know if i'm confusing cause i tend to go a few rounds when trying to explain things

cheers man!

You would still be playing in key of C Ionion, not F Lydian as you are essentially playing the notes of the C major scale. In your case, you are wrong because you are playing F Lydian scale over the tonal center of C ie:

||: C Am | Dm F | G7 | C :|| -- soloing using C major (Ionion) scale and its associated chord tones and substitutions. Tonal center of C.

now if wanna play F Lydian, you'd wanna play this progression:

||: F Dm | G7 B-7(b5) | C C(Dom)| F :|| -- solo using the F Lydian and its related ancillaries. Tonal center of F. Then you will hear the Lydian sound.

Hope this helps.

 

[karlie]

ahh okay! got the point. hmm i tend to disregard the whole tonal center and focus on the individual chord that i'm soloing over. haha.
thanks anyway for the heads up

 

[djasli]

ahh okay! got the point. hmm i tend to disregard the whole tonal center and focus on the individual chord that i'm soloing over. haha.
thanks anyway for the heads up

modes are overrated and most guitarists do not even know how to apply them. my advice is, walk before you run. master the 15 major scales first. yes there are 15 of them, not 12. western music is all based on that do re mi fa so la ti do sound. get those down, the rest are just simple arithmetic, sir.

 

[fuzztremecho]

2 b scales, 6 sharps and 7 neutral scale = 15 major scales