Regarding the state of the Buy/Sell section

[akktr]

While there are many decent ads with good deals to be found on soft. The amount of poor ads is becoming quite apparent to me.

I'd just like to start a discussion to see what people here think about it, particularly on some issues. Please don't flame, I'm just trying to see if anyone has ideas on how we could improve the overall quality of this place, it'd probably help some of you to sell stuff as well in the long run.

1) Blatantly overpriced guitars
http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showth...spaul-Custom-quot-Black-Beauty-quot-with-pics

http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showth...tion-2013-New-w-o-Tag-(Made-in-Japan)-SG-1200

I understand the vintage factor and import factor as well. But the first ad tells people to do research and then states a price 3 to 4 times higher than you could source one out, the ad isn't even correct saying that it has 24 frets, what the hell is black vintage anyway?... The second does the same thing in calling out lowballers. I don't really get this since any reasonable offer would be a lowball at those prices.

2. Ads without photos or pictures

If you leave an email or a number if you're unaware how to post images its kind of understandable but well you're only going to get interest from people who are looking for the particular model. I've seen some ads that read like "8/10 (insert phone number here)", or those that copy and paste the manufacturers specs where you see all the finishes available listed in the ad. Are you even trying to sell your guitar? People all have different standards for rating things and would generally like to know the particular issues that take away those 2 points from the score.
There are also those with pictures that have a single full length shot of the guitar... which imo really have no use in judging its condition but at least it gives you a good idea.

3. Modded Guitars

http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showth...sed-TGM-Electric-Guitar&p=1356805#post1356805

There's some idea around here that mods done to a guitar will raise its value. Really most mods we make are not upgrades but rather changing things to suit us more. Some people have this stupid idea of tallying up the amount of money they've spent on the guitar including the full price of the new components without accounting to subtract the stock ones and some even go as far as adding in setup and installation costs. It may have become worth that amount to you but it's only going to be worth as much as a buyer will be willing to pay for it.

4. Offer up
http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php?346406-WTS-Ibanez-Epiphone

http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php?348243-Sale-Electric-Guitars-(Squier-Greco-etc)

Ads which ask people to state their best offer to a guitar. Sometimes done in combination with photoless ads and more calling out of lowballers. This is quite self explanatory.

I'd like to hear what some people think about this, of course it'd be fine to just ignore these ads and focus on the better ones but it'd be much more pleasant to not have to file through so much junk every time I look around these classifieds. Thanks

 

[Extant]

While there are many decent ads with good deals to be found on soft. The amount of poor ads is becoming quite apparent to me.

I'd just like to start a discussion to see what people here think about it, particularly on some issues. Please don't flame, I'm just trying to see if anyone has ideas on how we could improve the overall quality of this place, it'd probably help some of you to sell stuff as well in the long run.

1) Blatantly overpriced guitars
http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showth...spaul-Custom-quot-Black-Beauty-quot-with-pics

http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showth...tion-2013-New-w-o-Tag-(Made-in-Japan)-SG-1200

I understand the vintage factor and import factor as well. But the first ad tells people to do research and then states a price 3 to 4 times higher than you could source one out, the ad isn't even correct saying that it has 24 frets, what the hell is black vintage anyway?... The second does the same thing in calling out lowballers. I don't really get this since any reasonable offer would be a lowball at those prices.

Came to forum to see if anyone had posted about the obscenely priced LP custom, was not disappointed.

 

[Icel3m0nt3a]

You did call out a few regular posters, myself included, but perhaps I can explain on my part.

The reason why I did not post photos is that I do not have the ability to take good photos of the guitars, and also that i'd like it for people to at least have an idea of what the guitar in question is. I do have photos for those genuinely interested who contact me by phone.

I would probably put prices for future ads though, so that people at least know what kind of range I am looking at.

About the expensive LP Custom, well it's the guy's guitar, I suppose we should let him try to sell it at what he wants. Whether the guitar moves or not is a different question.

 

[loldude333]

SOFT has always been a guitar bargain hunter's haven. The advantage is that anyone and everyone who has an account and an internet connection has a chance of buying/selling the gear they want 2nd hand. Thus, there'll always be a huge range of posters and gear. I've never had a problem personally with the issues you mentioned (though you would definitely have a point if its a newbie being duped); i've always believed in being a careful buyer. You also have a point about having to scroll through junk; but to me this is part and parcel of being a part of such a forum. I do think that having rules would help to clean up and spruce up the quality of the ads; but i also think it'd be unfair to the moderators to keep having to trawl through every ad to QC; especially since they're all volunteers.

I'm not always on the Buy/Sell forums, but i do visit on average 3-4 times a week and i browse through most ads and to be honest i haven't seen too many bad ones. Its a blessing and its far better than some forums in the US and Europe. I'm not too concerned as i believe that the buyer should always beware, and that he's asking for it if he chooses to not do his research and just blindly go in for the deal. I'll stick my neck out and say this because 99.99% of the bad deals i've seen closed are because of this reason.

I'm personally for keeping the forums like this; perhaps with members such as yourself aiding watchdog efforts (thanks for doing that btw). But long term, i think the net will always let some through, and i'm for education over super strict legislation. That's how things worked back in 2006 when i first joined and that's what i find most effective in an imperfect place like this. Then again, to me its part of the magic.

Just my 2 cents. No intention to flame or put anyone down. Thanks.

 

[guitarsan]

I share the same sentiments as the OP, with varying degree.

Pt1.
No fuss here. It's their guitar/gear after all and they can price whatever they want. If it's overpriced, then nobody will buy. We have some sellers here who are trying to flog their guitars for the longest time (more than a year and still counting). Don't they ever take the hint? Anyway, we love record breakers. LOL.

Pt2.
Yes, this is irritating. "A picture tells a thousand words" has never been so true. I believe it's more of laziness than not knowing how to post. And sometimes the ad contains only a few words which describes almost nothing about the guitar/gear. How lazy can one get. And it gets worse if the ad doesn't even list down the selling price (see Pt4). Being a minimalist is not cool here. Better don't sell.

Pt3.
No issue here. Nobody will buy if it's overpriced, whether it's upgraded or not. But yes, it can be slightly annoying if the seller lists and adds up all the prices of the mods, upgrades and setups including labour, and then expects you to believe it's a good deal at an inflated price. One man's upgrades is another man's junk. Might as well keep the upgraded components and sell the guitar stock if possible, pricing it at used market value. Sorry dude, the "not for fussy buyers" disclaimer doesn't work. It's the selling price that counts if you want to offload your product fast.

Pt4.
Really hated this. Offer? Do you walk into a department store and the salesperson asks you to make an offer? If someone gives you an offer you deem too low, are you going to throw a tantrum and accuses him/her of lowballing? Just name your price for goodness sake! You won't die one! If buyers are keen, they will pay your price or make a counter-offer where negotiation begins. If you don't want to haggle, just say price is fixed or non-negotiable. Another thing which gets on my nerve is "MWTS" or "MWTB". Might? So are you really serious about selling (or buying), or just "testing waters" or "testing market"? Sad to say, nobody will take you seriously here unless you make up your mind.

Thousand apologies if this post offended anyone. But I need to get it out of my system....fast.

 

[eljo89]

Pet peeve rant. But the 'fuzzy' buyer one REALLY gets me! Hahaha.

 

[Godspeed64]

The picture thing is NEW. I've been on SOFT for years, constantly stalking the classifieds for things to buy.
Look at the pedal section. People bother to post pictures to sell $50 pedals, but nobody BOTHERS to post pictures of a guitar they're selling at $3.2k.

I don't get the logic. "Here I'm selling an item worth several thousand dollars, but I won't post a photo." Soft was never like this btw; it used to be picture intensive. People used to make an effort in selling their goods, but nowadays, the effort goes to the title.

Once you start on the cheesy and dodgy marketing some people use around here.....
"Pedal endorsed by local guitar hero"
"Epic pedal sale" (and feature 2 Chinese-copies)
"Industry standard pedals" (what is considered industry standard, pray tell?)
Technically titles are kept as short and vague as possible, with key marketing terms ("urgent", "cheap", "epic", "boutique" when it really isn't) in the mix, and completely no clue what items the seller is selling by looking at the title.

How about those who call their "Squier" a "Fender" in the ad? Or their LTDs as ESPs, and Epiphones as Gibsons?

 

[Extant]

So I see the 13k gibby's purportedly been 'sold'.

If the buyer was stupid enough to send payment via Western Union of all things before even seeing the guitar itself, he deserves his obscenely overpriced purchase

 

[akktr]

Wow I didn't expect this many replies, the forum did not appear to be too active although i felt the thread was worth a shot.

I think the custom actually selling if it really did just goes to prove the point that guitars will be worth whatever one is willing to pay for it. And well a sucker is born every second..... It's a little odd to document a sale in a thread though with names and locations and all, first time I've seen something like that.

I agree that it is a pet peeve rant, and I don't see any real solution to it apart from the sellers themselves taking on the burden of improving their ads, I just wanted to obtain an opinion from people about these, it in no way affects us but I'm personally astounded someone would believe anyone would be willing to drop 3k on an item they have zero idea about case in point. http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php?348542-WTS-Suhr-modern

It's just a little unbelievable how rampant this is in the section and I didn't really start this discussion with the idea of finding means to an end to it, the issue doesn't really affect us negatively as buyers apart from the hassle, it would only do sellers good to polish up

Sorry if i offended any of the regular posters like icelemontea for calling them out I didn't mean this as a name and shame but just wanted some examples to show and some of these popped out to me. I think godspeed has a good point, the little annoyances i brought up aren't very significant but misrepresentation can be a much bigger problem especially if it might be somebody uninformed buying their first guitar although they aren't really likely to buy through here, but I did imagine the scenario where it would be a waste of both yours and the sellers time if you were to spend it requesting pics from them only to find it it was not what you were looking for. I do have friends as well who aren't comfortable giving out their phone numbers to people over the internet.

Oh and I do find it quite funny whenever someone posts something like MUST GO as if they're the ones controlling when their guitar sells. Or those who reduce the price after a day or two of waiting, it makes people want to wait on it longer haha

 

[ky1809]

Nothing is as bad as selling a LTD and labelling it as ESP, e.g. ESP EC1000. wtf?

 

[junkiemanxl]

The picture thing is NEW. I've been on SOFT for years, constantly stalking the classifieds for things to buy.
Look at the pedal section. People bother to post pictures to sell $50 pedals, but nobody BOTHERS to post pictures of a guitar they're selling at $3.2k.

I don't get the logic. "Here I'm selling an item worth several thousand dollars, but I won't post a photo." Soft was never like this btw; it used to be picture intensive. People used to make an effort in selling their goods, but nowadays, the effort goes to the title.

Once you start on the cheesy and dodgy marketing some people use around here.....
"Pedal endorsed by local guitar hero"
"Epic pedal sale" (and feature 2 Chinese-copies)
"Industry standard pedals" (what is considered industry standard, pray tell?)
Technically titles are kept as short and vague as possible, with key marketing terms ("urgent", "cheap", "epic", "boutique" when it really isn't) in the mix, and completely no clue what items the seller is selling by looking at the title.

How about those who call their "Squier" a "Fender" in the ad? Or their LTDs as ESPs, and Epiphones as Gibsons?

AGREED! The "Endorsed by" really gets to me..

and +1 on "Fuzzy buyers" hehe

Best one i have seen recently is the 13K LPC.. I hope the buyer is a happy dude after paying too much for that piece.

I have already come to terms with the weird posts i see almost everyday through the years...
there's a particular post that has been listed for ages. Maybe for more than a year now ... A high end custom built parts caster. I feel for the dude but he has to make some changes on his sale to make it work.

I miss the good old days when people like hub4thailand and pedal-itis who were actively selling here. so much good stuff back then until "Someone" blew the whistle and cried foul. Has it made soft into a better place after that? It's a NO in my books.. The real people who benefited were the buyers who got a chance to own a piece of gear that they GASed for without paying insane retail prices. it's like taking away the flag ship store from a shopping center.

As we all know, G4C is dead as well..
Sometimes i wished that there was an alternative to SOFT...
So much GAS but no real local platform..
Carousel is picking up though but it lacks good gear.

Anyway, please don't take offence to my ramble.
Happy Hunting Guys!

 

[guitarsan]

I find these terms rather amusing and silly....

* It's mentioned before. But "Endorsed by a fellow Softie"? WTF? Who on earth is this world famous Softie that we must buy this guitar he endorsed so we can be associated with him? Slash? Or some local void deck guitar hero?

* "CNY Sale", "Christmas Sale", "Hari Raya Sale", etc. It's good you are multi-cultural, but your prices are like any others and some are even more expensive! There is NO genuine sale here, just fancy seasonal greetings in your headlines.

* "Weekend Sale". This is usually followed by "sale ends after Sunday" or "price back to $xxx after 12 midnight" or "limited time only, offer ends after 8pm", etc. LOL. Are you running a giant retail chain or something? Get real and ditch the "sale" and "limited time offer" gimmicks. This is just an online classified ad, and serious buyers will buy if the price is right, whether you got "sale" or not.

* "HDB Approved". Does this concern amplifiers or HDB housing policies? Duh. Whether you stay in HDB, condo or landed, your neighbours will still call the police if you blast your 5W or 50W amp too loud.

 

[eljo89]

Did something happen to hub/pedal-i-tis? Or did I miss something?