Recording Levels

[aaroncheong]

Hi, I am a student in republic polytechnic.

Right now we are playing around with recording, and we get to use really cool stuff like millenia preamps, studio tielines--> millenia preamp --> protools.

Somehow, what i have realized is that most of the time, before we get a 'hot' recording level after increasing the gain on the preamp, things get distorted pretty easily.

either that or the recording level is not 'hot' enough, satisfying, but well, comparing it to other sessions that i have seen like Nine inch nails, it pales in comparison.

Kinda new to this man, anyone has any tips?

Thanks!

 

[Kimmi]

i like using a compression in my plug in.It does help me in some way...clipping does happen.Not sure whether a compression might help in your case.


what course are you in ?

digressing:woah from rp.i'm from rp too just tat i'm taking a course thats not exactly near my interest which is sound engineering.I didn;t realise there was a course in rp that gave students a chance to go hands on with pro tools..nicenice

 

[aaroncheong]

haha im in Sonic Arts, STA.

not exactly fantastic facilities for recording, buzzy tielines, air con sounds etc. but yeah, you really learn alot, really cool equipment to play with too. my favourite royer ribbon mics

 

[lethalmaus]

Have come across a few of these pt sessions

Think they are compressing with hardware comps like (distressors, ssl, alan smart, api) before it hits the converters/comp. If you've done this for years and know what youre doing this is an option but if you are on a learning curve dont. Do it during mix..not the same but at least you wont inflict undoable damage on the audio. Rec 24 bit audio so you dont lose resolution at lower levels.

And I doubt NIN are using cleaner sounding pres like the millenia/ avalon...try neves, ssl, api, daking and even great river. If you got an apogee you can get slightly hotter signals in with the soft clip/limit.

Alternatively..check the hardware settings on your Ptools i/o192(?). Are the input cards set to +4dbv instead of consumer -10?

 

[grarrgrarr]

from what i know, you should not increase preamp gain to get a hot level.
it is more advisable to record at a lower level eg. -16dB
then by using compression increase the overall level to commercial standards.

the main benefit is not just to avoid clipping, but not to encounter any distortion due to equipment being operated near its limit (recording near clipping level)

 

[nogwiat]

Check the connection from pre-amp to the pro tools if it is digital or analog. if is analog sometimes it might not be because of the pre-amp config that make your signal distort.

used to be from ngee ann and in year 1, they made us record vocals using a motu 828 to a software on Mac which i forgot the name. faced the same problem as well. didnt have this problem when i was using pro tools tho..

 

[logicdroid]

[=aaroncheong

Mate,
Your preamp setting depends on the material you're recording.. (Assuming it's vox you're recording)
Set the preamp to a hi gain setting when whispering and a lower gain setting when screaming. Record your soundcheck....

If you're gonna do a 1 take, try using a compressor to even out the dynamics and a limiter to prevent overs.

2 cents.
R.

 

[2aminthemorning]

I used to be a student once and was wondering why when i pop my mix into a CD player, put the volume to the max and wonder why i still can't hear anything. But there are quite alot of things to figure out on the way to help you complete a project from start to finish to help you get a product that sounds anything close to a commercial recording.

As far as just recording is concerned, don't worry too much about getting the levels too high, if you are recording into protools, you might want to record at different levels for different applications.

For example, if you are recording a cabinet amp, get the guitarist to play at his loudest, and then adjust the levels so that on your Protools track, the levels are about 3/4 from the top, make sure your preamps are not clipping anyway before that though. Guitars, especially overdriven ones, dont really move about that much, especially if your song is Nine Inch Nails ish.

Levels for drums or vocals do move about quite a bit though, especially those inexperienced in recording studios, i consider getting your levels up to half of the protools track a healthy enough level, for singers who don't stay still, this might sometimes even be too high.

After that, you can compress in your mix to get them slightly louder, but it still won't be enough, do some simple mastering by bouncing your tracks, and then throw in another limiter.

Ok but all of that was just to get it loud ok, dont get obsessed with it. And it is not exactly the most detailed instructions, no one application works for all, but since you are a sound student u might get a better idea =)

Im such a sell out

 

[aekae]

Ah. I use Sony Acid Music Studio, anyway. First started out with Sonic Foundry anyway.

My master volume is usually between 0 and -2, but my track volume varies and I adjust all so that my may volume doesn't clip throughout.

When recording, I try to keep it below 16db, well below clipping. All this is dependent on distance, gain level, EQ of mixer, digital or analogue, dispersion and reflection of the sound, etc. A whole lotta trial and error to make in order to gain the right sound and level, but again, its only to YOUR ears.

And then, don't forget the plug-ins. God how I love the plug ins.. Pre-amp, compression, gates, delay, reverb, EQ, filters, decoders, modulation, resamplers and lots more!

Add them to individual tracks, or to the main track, whatever your preference in sound, it'll make a huge difference.

Here's some of my projects and some songs that I mastered, had a hand in mastering and finalizing, and some songs that I made up when I was just plain bored.

http://www.imeem.com/people/X33iHM

Lotsa malay stuff, but if you don't like that I do have instrumental stuff.

 

[nivlem]

Hi what instruments are you recording ?
16 bit or 24bit ?

 

[l0u5y]

hi. recording at levels very hot is not always the best idea in digital recording. Im sure u noe that if ur levels goes over the red point u will hear a ugly distortion. Although we all noe that studios outside record at super hot levels so that their recordings will sound loud and as we all noe that something that sounds loud sounds better because of the fletcher-munson curve.

Digital recording goes by sample rate. meaning how often does it take a snap-shot of the signal coming it. And as you can see from your waveform that a single note from any instrument can never be of the same level unless already heavily compressed. Hence, at hot levels, some signals that you recorded are already distorted. However, because of the signal/noise ratio, you cant hear that the recording contains distortion. however, if you compare to a recording that is recorded at suitable level, the difference becomes very obvious, that is if you are listening thru good monitors. You can read more on this by googling digital distortion.

It is up to you to decide if you want to record at hot levels or optimum levels. This also depends on the genre of music you are recording. if you are recording a heavy metal or rock sound, the sound of the distortion guitars will cover up the digital distortion. But if the session is recording a piano ballad or maybe a smooth quiet latino jazz, it might not be wise to pump ur levels so high.

 

[l0u5y]

the problem that the signal is distorted before it is hot enuff might be a problem of the console you are using. Are you using a control 24 system? the best is to check the levels in your protools itself. Sometimes your console might not be accurate. you might be able to reconfigure the level indicators on ur console but im not sure about that.

 

[Jerseystar]

Actually in theory your signal should not be greater than -24dB to -26dB but there are no hard and fast rules. I assume everyone's recording in the digital domain. The reason for this is to leave head room when you're mixing. Also when you mix your max level on your master bus or output channel should leave at least 18dB plus for mastering. The less headroom you leave the harder it will be to solve problems in your mix. It is better to mix soft during mixing (which means you should turn up your volume to hear) yeah crank it.

I actually am pretty old school when it comes to recording and mixing so I really hate using compressors and EQ the way they do these days.

Good Luck

 

[Enjaykayb]

Check out this article on Audio Recording Levels: http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/html/blog_files/Proper_Audio_Recording_Levels.html

 

[smurfpiss]

Check out this article on Audio Recording Levels: http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/html/blog_files/Proper_Audio_Recording_Levels.html

That's a good informative article!

To summarize for those that don't want to read up so much.

- Record in 24bit

- Have the audio you are recording peak at -20dBFS to -12dBFS

 

[Jerseystar]

I think I'd better clarify.

What I was refering to was the level you should NOMINALLY MIX at. In fact you should generally record AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE just before clipping or more simply, before the signal distorts. So feel free to record at levels -6dB or greater just ensure that it doesn't go above zero. At zero might be fine if your system can handle it but beyond zero is a no no.

After your recordings, that's when you should bring down your faders on Pro Tools/Logic whatever you are using to a nominal level. For me I like to keep that around -18dB to -24dB. Also I should clarify this. The 24dB headroom I set aside is meant for transients some might go as high as +12dB above the nominal level.

Now recording hot before zero pretty much gives you a much higher signal to noise ratio in your audio files. So when you bring down your levels, the noise levels also dipsby the amount you attenuate hence cleaner recordings. If you record too soft then all the system noise and other noise is additive which might make your recordings somewhat fuzzier. Who knows that might be the effect you're going for but generally we want to keep the noise floor as low as possible.

What I think your question is how to make your tracks sound louder and that is more in the mixing domain rather than the recording domain. Some things you can use is cloning your tracks (I think in Pro Tools they call it duplicate) and have two tracks carrying the same cloned audio hence making the instrument/vocal sound louder.