question on frets - crown profile

[Everdying]

how many of you gibson or prs owners have a flatter crown profile?
cos i read even prs crowns their frets to be similar to vintage gibsons, which are flatter?

my two gibson SGs also have a similar flatter crown, as opposed to what you normally see with a rounded crown.
but my tech is saying this is due to the laziness of gibson in not crowning the frets, but then why would prs do that

cos i was gonna send a epi of mine to be recrowned to a similar profile.

 

[ShredCow]

Why would you want a flat profile?

Really... think about it... why?

Lets go down to total anality.

Intonation.

Flat crown = less accurate intonation.
Rounded top = more accurate intonation as point of contact with strings smaller

okay, that was REALLY anal.

But hey. We guitarists want the MOST life out of our frets. Frets don't come flat. They come rounded. So you got a factory line, taking those round top frets, hammering them in, then just shaving the top off. Why? To get even fret height.
Then it should be rounded.

double BUT! Go to www.mtlutherie.com and look at Malcolm's fretjobs.

You might never look at a flatly crowned fretjob the same way again.

 

[Everdying]

actually a flat crown doesnt really mean less accurate intonation.
just means the intonation point on the fret is towards the end rather than dead center where the rounded crown is.
but forget that part

what i meant by my idea of flatter crown is this...
cos the epi frets are obviously medium jumbo, but i want it flatter so its approaching the vintage thinwire height, yet with a less rounded centered crown.
i remember 60s gibson LP customs and some 80s LP customs had similar frets, but those were ridiculously flat.
back then they called them the 'fretless wonders'.
i've tried one before, pretty comfortable tho.

btw, on mtlutherie, under fixes, the 4th link on the left on the '67 gibson SG.
that is also how both my SG frets are like, slightly flatter with a less pronounced rounded crown.

 

[turtlemuscle]

each type of crown give you different tonal charaterictic as well as playability. so it depends on what you want from your guitar.

the method where you see frets being dressed flat is known as "shool busing". it's a prefered type of dressing on rock guitars because it can wear longer on heavy usage. it also tend to produce a thicker tone.

if you dress your crown rounded. it will have a cleaner contact point with the strings and will produce better sustain as well as accurate intonation.

hope this helps.

 

[Everdying]

"shool busing"?
where can i get info on that? i cant find anything on that via google.

 

[ShredCow]

Hehehe....
Malcolm uses fretwire similiar to Dunlop 6105 size.

I want my frets to last as long as possible.

No flat crowns for me.



Btw, if you got medium Jumbo frets, as they wear, the much larger area that contacts the strings, can really affect your intonation. Much less having them filed flatter to be "vintage thinwire height". Don't you think so?

 

[Everdying]

but it feels so good

i wont be playing jazzy chords up the neck etc anyway, or many chords that high up the neck in the first place.

and actually, the flatter crowns will last longer.
cos when the higher rounder crowns wear out, the whole fret will be uneven, and that will affect the fret after it.
the flatter crowns, well being already flat, will not wear out that fast, and with less chance of buzzing on frets after.

maybe instead of refretting your next guitar, ask them to recrown it flatter and see how you like it.
then if not just refret, no harm done

 

[ShredCow]

Hmmm... how would a flatter crown last longer?

I got a fretwire. I put it on. Dress it as lightly as possible since minmal dressing is needed. Its round.
Then I take another fretwire. I dress it hard so it becomes flatter.

The 2nd fretwire has already a few months taken off its life, no?

The 1st fretwire will take a few months to wear down to being like "flat" then it wears the same as fretwire 2.

Few Mths translates to anything from 9 mths to a year... depending on quality of fretwire, and spending like 3 hours daily on the instrument, quite a heavy touch. Using my example lah.

Also, thats why 6105 is used, its tall, its thin. When the rounded top wears off, its not as much a huge area as jumbos.

I wouldn't recrown my guitar flatter... i personally think its shortchanging oneself, plus it does nothing to improve speed or.. well.. anything. A matter of preference.

 

[kank_39]

Lets go down to total anality.

Fwah.. so fast apply in real sentence liao.. 8O I should start patenting these words. :lol:

Sorry for the OT but I just can't help it.

 

[turtlemuscle]

i can't remember where i read the term "school busing". it's probably a lingo used by american luthiers.

hi ShredCow, a flatter crown last longer because it has a bigger surface area of contact with the string, so it will have a greater resistence against string movement.

it's like thin frets vs jumbo frets. jumbo will last longer because of the mass. for the crown the same principle is applied to the crown tip.

 

[edder]

I know of a carpenter in msia who just use a flat file and flatten all frets and call it fret dressing.

 

[ShredCow]

hi ShredCow, a flatter crown last longer because it has a bigger surface area of contact with the string, so it will have a greater resistence against string movement.

Yeap.
Thats true.

But how do you get to a flatter crown? You shave off a couple months (to a year) of playing life, thats how you get a flatter crown. :wink:

 

[ciel]

I know of a carpenter in msia who just use a flat file and flatten all frets and call it fret dressing.

i sense bitterness........

 

[edder]

I'm all for smearing Genuine Dodgy Individuals.

 

[Everdying]

i know a 'carpenter' too in m'sia who does work like that
sells so called custom guitars in the name of God.

 

[edder]

it is most unfortunate that we have crossed path with this carpenter. :twisted: :evil:

 

[Everdying]

well i was smart enough not to deal with him
there are a couple more like him around here also, making use of religion to sell guitars.

anyway, back to topic...
now i wonder what vintage thinwires will feel like on a LP.
blame it on the tele i had

 

[turtlemuscle]

I know of a carpenter in msia who just use a flat file and flatten all frets and call it fret dressing.

what the... i think my grandmother also can be guitar carpenter like that...

Shredcow, got your point on flat crowns.