Proof of Evolution

Widdly, theres a difference between the new testament and the old testament. The laws in the old testament, are not entirely adhered to now. This is why Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, because they were so caught up in their old religious laws.

But Jesus came to Earth in the form of a man, took up all our sin upon himself, and died on the cross for us. Two nails through each wrist (not palm as commonly depicted), and one nail through both feet. It was a sacrifice for us. Thus, we now can be forgiven of our sins, hence, we are not stoned when we curse our parents.

BUT, the 10 commandments given still stand. Also, its worth mentioning that the only commandment with a reward is... "Honour your father and mother, and your days will be long"
 
anyway, this is my stand.



cheers!

Thats how i feel too. And what i believe in dates further back than the evolution of species. I chose to believe the bible because i just can't see the insanely huge universe with an uncountable amount of stars, planets or galaxies just poof and 'happened'. That we just happen to be in one of the billions of galaxies. That this HUGE universe can be just happen to function so well. And... i'm gonna be sticking to this. This is what i have faith in but i didn't say i don't have faith in science. Like Gravity said, i too believe that both creation and evolution works hand in hand. ;)
 
btw theres no need to bring the bible into this, the discussion is more about (at least for me it is) about Creationism pretending to be science
 
Evolution
#1 Evolution is not a theory that explains the origin of the universe,
that field of study is referred to as Cosmology and it is a field of
study not covered by Charles Darwin’s, The Origin Of Species.

yes I know that, but because people who call evolution science is forced to accept the Big Bang theory to fit with their world view. You can't say God created the world and species evolved that way, it's not biblical.

#2 Evolution is not a theory that describes the first origination of
life on this planet, that field of study is called Abiogenisis. While
Darwin might have remarked his feelings about the theory in a letter to
a colleague, it is not part of the scope of evolution, which by
definition describes the change in species over time and natural
selection.

same as the above. evolutionists are forced to accept more theories to support their stand and come up with more stuff that "probably might have happened" just to keep to their world view, when the creationism is just one logical thing that explains everything.

#3 Evolution is not inherently atheistic, the theory describes nothing
regarding the existence of god, it is a scientific theory confining
itself to prediction and observation of the natural world.

while people have come up with new theories that cross both creationism and evolution, i do not agree with these views. Biblical creationism and darwin evolution are mutually exclusive. it's like saying religious harmony, it can't happen.

#4 The theory of evolution does not say, “humans came from monkeys”.
The theory shows clear evidence supporting the hypothesis that at some
point around 6 million years ago, humans, the great apes and primates
diverged from a common ancestor.

evolutionists like to say that evolution does not say "human comes from monkeys" yet they're trying to prove this. i understand what you mean by diverged. but the point of divergence is greater adaptation, and thus natural selection. the greater adapted one would survive "better" and out-number and eventually kill off the lesser species. why didn't this happen?

#5 The theory of evolution does not say dogs come from frogs, a rock
will turn into a duck or as some former TV personalities like to claim,
will produce a half crocodile, half duck (crocoduck).

same as above. you say that's not what evolution is, but they're trying to hard to find fish with legs, lemurs with shorter tails, etc. i agree that those are fallacies, but that's essentially what evolution is trying to proof. you tell us what evolution is not, but don't give us the answer to "what, then, is evolution trying to prove?"

#6 Evolutionary theory is the best supported scientific hypothesis we
have for describing the diversity of life on Earth. It is not a
religion, a belief system, a faith or any other ambiguous religious
term sometimes attached to it.[/QUOTE]

it isn't a religion per se, but it's still a faith. doesn't mean people call it science means it's science. it's just a godless theory, that people accept as science because they don't want to accept God. there are no evidences surpporting creationism or evolution. evidences are neutral, it's perception that colors one's beliefs.
 
You are putting words in my mouth. I don't refuse to except the creationist's idea because it has god in it. I refuse to except the book of genesis as a LITERAL work of non-fiction. As an allegorical fable, Genesis is a great work that has a beautiful poetry to it but as a factual historical account it seems to me to be improbable.

ok you're probably right, but we'll get into that further below.

003:001 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field
which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea,
hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Talking snakes. Not something you see everyday.

what's wrong with talking serpents? if you believe in the spiritual world, then talking serpents is definitely not an issue. demon possession is a very real thing. but if you don't believe in something just because you haven't experienced it with your mindset, then that is a very close-minded mindset, because you cannot trust your senses too, sometimes they deceive you.

004:017 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and
he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the
name of his son, Enoch.

Cain knew his wife.....because she was his mother? The problem of incest in Genesis is difficult.

imagine a world where there's only you and your family living in it. it is incest, but during that time it was not perceived as how we do today. just like slavery, it was a very different thing back then. as generations change, social interaction changes, you can't expect people back then to live like people now. or even our generation's mindset to last for, say, the next 5 years.

005:005 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty
years: and he died.

Adam lived to be 930 years old. Not something you see in the our world.

there is actually a scientific explanation for this. and it has been tested, unlike evolution. some scientists took two similar tomato plants and placed them in 2 identical air tight containers. one of them they supplied regular oxygen levels and air pressure levels, and the other they doubled the oxygen levels and air pressure. in the first one, the plant grew and died normally like how a normal tomato plant would grow and the 2nd one grew fruits that were almost 2 times the size, and the plant lasted much much longer.

i know this isn't the most scientific source but, http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/164359. explains why dinosaurs were so big back then.


007:008 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of
fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
007:009 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and
the female, as God had commanded Noah.
...
007:021 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl,
and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that
creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

If evolution doesn't provide new species and the book of Genesis is literal, then we can only deduce that every animal that exists today must have existed in those times and been on board the gopher wood arc. The logistics of constructing a wooden boat of that nature to support the quantity of livestock and feed for a period of 40 days is implausible.

the thing about using the English translation is that it's very hard to understand what the bible really says. but using the English NIV bible, it definitely didn't say bring 2 of every animal. if you noticed from Genesis chap 6-9, the world "kind" was used 16 times. It's very hard to explain what one kind of animal is, but I know that God didn't ask Noah to bring on the ark 2 of every animal, but 2 of every kind of animal. "normally when you ask someone what kind of animal is this?" it's different from "what animal is this?". for the former, someone would generally reply, "it's a bird." while to the latter, "it's a bald eagle." but that's just English language, we'll never understand unless we look into the Hebrew texts. have you?


007:011 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month,
the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the
fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of
heaven were opened.
007:012 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Not only did Noah build an immense wooden boat, he did so when was 600 years old. Quite a feat!

same as above. people were likely healthier and stronger, and lived longer.

you might be wondering how come the atm pressure and oxygen levels are so low now. the answers are all in the bible. prior to the flood, where it rained excessively, it was recorded that it was the first time rain ever happened to earth. So christian scientists believed that back then there was a canopy of water hanging in the atmosphere, which has been speculated by non christian scientists alike. this canopy of water was the reason behind the high oxygen levels and atm pressure, and after the great flood, it rained off and there was no more. so after that people lived increasingly shorter lives. it didn't just BOOM!, drop to 70 or 80. but it gradually decreased (avg lifespan). also it was recorded that the tides rose, the earth flooded not because of rain only. and as you might know, the moon controls our tides on earth, even now. so it's not impossible that God, who created these, could shift the moon's position and caused the tides to rise.

So, in my opinion, a reading of Genesis should not be literal. And further, a belief in a higher power and a understanding of evolutionary biology need not be mutually exclusive.

it's an opinion you have to back up with facts, not with other opinion. you're essentially saying, you don't believe in something because you've never experienced it with your senses, and it goes against your moral issues (incest), and that it's impossible for someone now to live to 600, let alone build an ark...all these are opinions after opinions. there has to be a line drawn.
 
You are the epitome of an ignorant man. If you think that's your life, I'm fine with it.

Evolutionists, Creationists, whatever. What do you seek, young hot-blooded people? Answer me. What do you seek?

i will answer you. i seek the truth, i seek freedom, i seek life, i seek God. i assumed that by calling us young people, you're not young yourself. tell me, what do you do everyday? do you own a house? do you have any idea how the monetary system works in banking and in politics? how you're trying to pay off a house you don't even own? to pay for a car you don't even own? i don't know you so i won't be quick to judge you, but generally people are sucked into the System. and the system is eating away their lives. working jobs just to put money on the table, but what is money really?
 
The difference is that there's evidence for evolution, and there isn't for creationism.
Creationism is A LOT more FAITH-BASED than evolution.

C'mon, admit it.

really? i see a complex system that runs the entire world and I immediately think "who created this?" just like i walk into a factory and i see the machines running and products coming out of the system and i don't think "what explosion caused this?"

if i wanted a chair, i'd make it. i wouldn't rig up some dynamite and plants of wood and hope that somehow a chair would fall into place.
 
That's my point! The bible is mostly poetic and allegorical, but literal interpretation of the bible is the basis of creationism. Therein lies the problem.

Anyway those are the bible passages the church used to indicate the Galileo's revolving around the sun idea was a heretical.

Here are some other bible quotes that probably wouldn't be useful today if taken in a literal sense...

Leviticus 20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

Exodus 35:2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

the problem with reading the Bible that it is more than just reason. The original scriptures didn't have chapters and verses. The Leviticus law was not meant as a universal law but in context to the people. The laws back then had to be stricter to ensure that the tribe of Israel would survive. If they let hell run loose in that society, the tribe would very soon kill itself out. That's why strict laws such as this had to be placed to keep people in check.

also all of this is to show that God sets to rules, and he doesn't bend them for anyone. "Honor your father and mother" is a commandment. It was not a plea.
 
eh now predz is feeling tired of this, maybe he doesn't want to continue. But Evolution is a true scientific fact. Scientists don't have an agenda to make you believe what they want you to believe.

Want some proof of evolution? Dogs, thats right dogs. When humans domesticated dogs they mated together the dogs with the traits they wanted. over time this
angry_wolf.jpg


became this
ChihuahuaViansBigMacAttackMac3.JPG


In this case the humans acted as the natural selectors. In nature, natural selection happens through the environment. Too hot? too cold? not enough food? plenty of food? lots of disease? not so much disease? etc. because theres variation within a species, the individuals who are best adapted to the environment end up staying alive and passing on their traits that are most adaptable to the environment. Keep this up over hundreds of thousands of years maybe even millions with small gradual changes with every generation the end product will not look like the starting product.

another proof, look at the panda. It has something that looks like a thumb to grip bamboo. But it actually isn't a thumb, its an extended wrist bone and cannot function like our thumbs. If the panda was created then how come it has a fake thumb instead of a 'well designed' thumb like ours?

and btw those comments where someone said I end up believing everything what they tell me about evolution. I could say the same thing back, you believe everything the creationists say, so it leaves us back to square one

That's not a proof of evolution. I see two animals in the canine species producing canines. and more canines after that...i don't see

funny_dog_man_doctored_picture.jpg


my issue with natural selection is still unanswered, what is it selecting precisely?
 
really? i see a complex system that runs the entire world and I immediately think "who created this?" just like i walk into a factory and i see the machines running and products coming out of the system and i don't think "what explosion caused this?"


same reason i wonder Who created cancer in kids and other babies with birth defects.


Lest you don't know yet, the world is not created "perfectly" - like in the picture-perfect bible.
There are lots of accidents.
 
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That's not a proof of evolution. I see two animals in the canine species producing canines. and more canines after that...i don't see

funny_dog_man_doctored_picture.jpg


my issue with natural selection is still unanswered, what is it selecting precisely?

Yes that is proof of evolution because humans have mated together the dogs with favorable traits, we did the 'natural selecting' ourselves. Thats how we created different dog breeds. The bloodhound was created by only mating together the best smellers, the golden retriever was bred by mating together only the friendliest dogs. The doberman was created by mating only the fiercest and loyal guard dogs.

In nature the environmental factors, like availability of food, predators and competition within a species kill certain individuals in the species. Because of variation within a species, those who do survive are able to reproduce and have offspring that have the same traits which allowed their parents to survive. Over millions of years the traits are passed down from generation to generation to generation. so if the environment calls for the fastest that means the slow ones die and the fast ones live, the fastest male mates with the fastest female to create fast kids, the kids will mate with the other fastest kids and have even faster kids and so on. Keep that up for hundred thousand years more or less the newest generation will look very slim very agile and very quick compared to the first generation it started with. Now thats just with one trait, imagine all other traits found in variation with all other individuals, like reproductivity, fur color, ability to go furthest without food, height, resistance to disease, sociability, the food that is able to digest, the resistance to temperature etc. All those traits come into play and over time there is so much genetic difference between the end generation and the starting generation that they can't reproduce together. Then THAT is a new species
 
same reason i wonder Who created cancer in kids and other babies with birth defects.


Lest you don't know yet, the world is not created "perfectly" - like in the picture-perfect bible.
There are lots of accidents.

i dont think God created cancer. i think humans created it via their large consumptions of coal and wood, creating nuclear weaponry and constantly testing it in our atmosphere, the inclusion of preservatives into most foods. i mean, yeah u see an accident on the road then u say: damned bmw ran over that poor man. more like damn the driver. bmw just makes cars, doesnt run pple over. the running over part is more of our own volition.
 
evident said:
the greater adapted one would survive "better" and out-number and eventually kill off the lesser species. why didn't this happen?

It did happen, but only to a small extent.

Say if we accept that humans evolved from monkeys. Well, this doesn’t necessary mean that monkey are less adapted for survival. In their world of jungles and trees, they are one of the fittest in that environment, if you put a modern day civilized man in the same jungle environment , he’ll probably die.

Likewise, if you put a monkey and a civilized man in a city. Obviously, the man would survive better than monkey.

Natural selection selects adaptive traits, but what is adaptive depends on the environment. That explains why many ‘less evolved’ species still exist, simply because they are fittest in their respective environment.

In places where men built their cities, they would have ‘killed’ off the monkeys, so yes the highly evolved species will kill off the less evolved. But if both the human’s and monkey’s habitats are separated, obviously both species would continue to survive.

Also, the pro social behavior of mammals (another ‘product’ of evolution/natural selection) did ensure to a small extent the survival of the ‘weaker species’. Mammals exercise pro social behaviours not just within their own species, but beyond their kind as well. Dolphins ,one of the most sociable/ intelligent mammals, has been observed to assist , even protect weaker species from their predators. Why are dolphins so sociable? well because social behavior is obviously important in reproduction/mating and in the complex ecological system. Hence such psychological traits are selected as well.
 
Penta:

going by the logic of Christians, nothing can arise in the Universe if it is not created by God.
God created the potential for cancer arising; for body tissues to break down and mutate over time.
Let's not even go into the ugly part of kids who die of cancer or other diseases after just a few years on earth.


Pls allow my theory now:
God is like the gamemaster in a game show who sets all kinds of prizes and penalties behind
the doors. He sets all the possibilities, good and bad.
It's down to your wisdom, or sometimes blind luck, on what you get.
 
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predz23, that is NOT evolution, thats just cross-breeding no?

So if a smart woman marries a handsome man, are their kids smart and handsome?

That's the passing down of genes, hereditary traits, not EVOLUTION.
 
predz23, that is NOT evolution, thats just cross-breeding no?

Evolution works exactly the same way, whats happening to dogs is MICRO evolution, evolution from species to species is MACRO evolution. You haven't given dogs enough time yet. But dogs were not created by god, we artificially evolved them from wolves the same way a species evolves to another species


So if a smart woman marries a handsome man, are their kids smart and handsome?

That's the passing down of genes, hereditary traits, not EVOLUTION.

Blond man marries a blond woman = blond kids? likely right? if that happens on a large scale, with brunettes and redheads dying, then the only people alive would be blond yes? repeat that with traits that help you survive over millions of years then the DNA has become so different, its a new species.

BTW something interesting here, this is a LIGER, born from lion father, but tiger mother (or other way around forgot)
liger13zi.jpg


The Lion and Tiger share enough common DNA to create offspring, because they share a common ancestor. But if God or a perfect designer created the lion and the tiger, shouldn't they not be able to create offspring? Shouldn't lions only make lions and tigers only Tigers?

Also has anybody responded to my comments about the panda thumb? or why dolphins and whales have blowholes instead of gills?
 
...it's like saying religious harmony, it can't happen...

actually, many religions share the same old testament. i know it doesnt mean that religious harmony is happening, but it does reinstates my point that many religions supposedly believe in the same creation God & that creation is very real. heh heh.

Also has anybody responded to my comments about the panda thumb? or why dolphins and whales have blowholes instead of gills?

i attempted to answer ur question. just my theory. ;) hhaha.

God might also have used evolution to create new things.
God gave the ability of evolving to the things he created. ;)

all in my own opinion.
cheers! to healthy discussion.
 
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