Pls recommend PC and software for composing

[greentea23]

Hi, I'm totally new to digital music production, although I used to play the electone (I don't own any keyboard now). I'm interested to compose.

I'm looking for software/hardware that can give me good authentic orchestral instruments mostly i.e. piano, strings, woodwinds, brass, etc. How do I get started?

Someone recommended me the Yamaha MM6 + Cubase LE. Will that suffice?

I have just installed the Cubase SE 3 without a midi keyboard but I'm so new I don't even know where to find the VST instruments (or maybe they're not included?). That's how much of a beginner I am. I was hoping to check out just how good the VST instruments are.

Also, what do I need for PC specs? I have an old laptop which probably doesn't have much RAM in it so I might want to invest in a good PC. Is there any PC model that's particularly good for music production?

 

[kongwee]

If you are going Yamaha + Cubase, buy higher end Yamaha that give you Cubase IA4. I never used them, for the description there are a lot of control with Cubase IA 4. Cubase LE forget about it. Nowaday, younger people are going midi controller way. You could consider Sonar 8 which quite competitive to Cubase 5. Sonar have a few good synth so you just need a powerful PC and a midi keyboard controller.

My recommendation go Logic Studio way. But you need to buy iMac or unibody Macbook with 4 gig ram to have decent performance.

 

[greentea23]

Hi Kong Wee,

Thanks for the tips.

Btw, is there any shop that sells PCs / Macs that are already pre-loaded with music production software so I can just plunge in right away?

 

[Cheez]

Before we suggest the exact software/hardware combinations, one question need to be answered. You mention you want to use orchestral instruments (which is down my alley!). Question is what do you want to do with them? Do you want to play them live, or do you want to sequence and so produce a track? What is the end goal?

 

[greentea23]

Hi Cheez!

Glad to hear it's down your alley.

Yep, end goal is to sequence and produce a track, and not to perform live. Final product should be something I can burn on a CD, or create a wav file, something I can send around to people, etc. I would want it to sound as close to the real thing as possible (not that I'm doing any grand pieces but still...)

I'd probably start by doing simple short pieces, and they'd sound like moody/atmospheric tracks from an OST. Hope that gives you a rough idea of what I'm trying to do.

 

[logicdroid]

If you're thinking realistic Orchestra, You'll need to fork out more.

I'm on a macbookpro, maxed out RAM, Logic Studio as my DAW and East West Quantum Leap Symphony Orchestra, RA and Symphony choirs. (PLAY edition)

Also running it on an old dual Dual PPC G5 8gb RAM... (NI version)

There are more than a couple of choices when it comes to Orchestral instruments... Chanced upon one of them that doesn't require ridiculous amounts of RAM... forgot the company's name..... any idea Cheez?

Giga Sampler's one of them, Vienna's another one. Google and you'll probably find one that suits your budget.

I'm happy with my setup although an 8 core MacPro with a ton of RAM would be ideal... East West QLSO WILL suck up all your system RAM if you're using a ton of instruments.

I reckon Cheez is more experienced than I am as I'm studying the orchestra still.

Not easy as you have to understand the instruments and how it's played, articulations, keyswitches and how it works, but there's always a start for everything eh?

Imagine scoring for a 70 piece orchestra. Phew!

Give me a shout if you decide to go Mac and Logic. I'm certified with Apple to teach Logic so help is available.

R.
http://web.me.com/logicdroid/

 

[Cheez]

2 ways about it:

1. Simplest way if you are not familar (and doesn't want to fuss) with software DAW. That's to go entirely hardware. Roland is the way to go as they are the ones better at realistic orchestral sounds compared to Yamaha or Korg. You may want to consider a Fantom workstation, but you may have to pay for it (not cheap).

2. If you want to go software, you'll first need a midi controller that has mod wheels. This is a must because mod wheels are necessary to control cross-fadings in orchestral instruments. Also, you may want an 88 key because many orchestral VST software does key-switching in the lower octaves of the keyboard. A 61 or 76 key doesn't have the range to cover it.

Secondly for VST, the cheapest way to go about it is to get Garritan Personal Orchestra (GPO) (http://www.garritan.com/GPO-features.html) (main home page: http://www.garritan.com/). At the moment, it's still running on Kontakt engine. But if you are willing to wait for a little while, Garritan will release their new engine (ARIA) soon which will make GPO run on even a Netbook. But if you are in a hurry, you can get the current GPO now. Garritan always have very good upgrade paths and I'm sure he will give you a good deal to upgrade to their new ARIA engine. This will be the best investment, seeing Garritan had recently purchased Gigastudio technologies. It's certain they will only improve from here and be one of the largest competitors to sampling.

There are others which are more expensive, as logicdroid pointed out. For starters, I wouldn't suggest going there yet, unless you are into orchestral scoring and film. And even then, GPO is sufficient in many cases. The best, of course, is to have a mix since no one orchestral library covers it all. I use a combination of samples including from Kirk Hunter, Vienna Symphonic Library, Sample Modelled Instruments, and many others for non-orchestral pieces (up to almost 200GB of samples). They don't come cheap and you need to slowly invest and build them up over many years.

 

[Cheez]

Sorry. I realise some of the terms I use may be new to the uninitiated.

Because orchestral instruments play in various styles, it's necessary to employ multiple articulations for it. For example: violins play in a variety of ways - legato, staccato, spiccato, detache, marcato, col legno, pizzicato, tremelo, trills, ponticello etc. Not to mention sometimes you want vibrato and other times you don't. Imagine trying to play different styles (articulations) in a few bars! It's a nightmare to sequence. Key-switching enables you to do that easily. All samples would be loaded into the RAM so you have all the articulations available. By pressing a key in the lower octave (say E1), you would be playing for example, legato. Then by pressing F1, you switch immediately to say, staccato. That way you can switch between articulations very quickly, making it more playable.

Another problem is that tonality of the orchestral instruments changes with volume. When playing loud and soft, it's no just that volume that changes but the tone. Also, crescendo and decrescendo when holding a note is common. This calls for the need of the mod-wheel and cross-fading. In cross-fading, different samples which reflect different tones are faded slowly as you move your mod-wheel. Example: you have a flute holding a note for 2 bars, and you want to crescendo. By moving the mod-wheel, you slowly increase the volume and at the same time, the tone also changes as the volume increases. Cross-fade can also be programmed for other things - like playing soft strings and slowly fading into soft tremelo - by using the mod-wheel (ie cross-fading articulations instead of using key-switching, which results in a smooth transition rather than a sudden change). Others include changing the speed of portamento when sliding between 2 notes in legato playing (able to control fast or slow sliding); changing the depth of vibrato etc.

These are extremely hard to achieve in hardware as it requires too much RAM. Some may be achieved by hardware slightly using filters to change tone etc. But realism is not anyway close to software. If you want details like these, you need to go software.

 

[greentea23]

Hi all,

Wow thanks for all the advice. Looks like there's a lot to absorb, plus I don't think I have such a big budget since I'm only tinkering with stuff for now.

Ok I will check out Garritan. PC hardware wise, I should just go with as much RAM as possible, right? I did consider a Mac but it's pricey and I've never owned or used one...

 

[Cheez]

With Garritan, you don't need a super computer. However, more RAM is always better. A faster CPU also doesn't hurt. And Garritan is very well priced - you can't get a better deal in terms of quality vs cost.

Don't forget to budget for a midi controller and an audio interface.

 

[kongwee]

About Roland Fantom workstation it is too expensive here. A $3800(61 key) can get you a full suite DAW PC/MAC equivalent with some commercial soft syth. Putting that aside, I grew up with a Fantom workstation. There is atlernative. You could buy a Sonic Cell with some add on cards. Sonic Cell is base on Fantom X engine. Roland has not discard this engine yet. It is still a $1500 plus solution. You got a nice soundcard with Fantom engine module inside. Buy a midi keyboard and use your old laptop to do sampling. It come with Sonar LE I think.

 

[greentea23]

Hi Cheez,

Sorry but what's this audio interface that I need?

Btw, can Garritan also help me do some simple electronica type music? Am into that too.

 

[greentea23]

Hi Kong Wee - your stuff sounds quite cheem. Thanks though. I'm just starting out to compose as a hobby so I'm really just looking for something more basic for the moment, until I get better or in case I run out of steam! Haha.

cheers

 

[Cheez]

Audio interface is a "soundcard". You need one that's better than those for just gaming. But even if not, you can still get by. When you get Garritan, we'll help you sort these things out one at a time (speaking for other great SOFTies here).

Garritan is entirely orchestral. For electronica stuff, you'll need other type of softsynths. There are many out there, depending on your budget. There are also free plugins in kvr audio. http://www.kvraudio.com/

 

[kongwee]

There is lot more to it. I can only refer you to Sinamex where they have some setup. You must put on very thick face and ask around. But it is good to know what around. Very likely, you will spend that you should not too. Like audio interface, I have change a few set already.

 

[squarehero]

There is a guy selling good soft synths for dance/electronica in the buy/sell forum. I bought his Albino 3 and am pretty happy with the deal.

Alternatively, f you don't want to fork out money for a commercial soft synth, I suggest you buy a copy of Computer Music and use their freebies first. Only costs you about $20+ and you get a ton of synths to play with. AlphaCM, ZebraCM are my picks.

 

[Cheez]

When buying second hand softsynths, always check if license is transferable and that the seller has arranged the transfer.

 

[greentea23]

Hi all,

Thanks for your comments and input. You guys have been great. I'll work things out at my end and update you.

Have a good weekend!

cheers