Mastering - multiband limiter & compressor for ORCHESTRAL music

[Cheez]

I've been trying to learn mixing and mastering (or attempting to learn, really) for orchestral and acoustic mixes, in particular limiter and compressor for orchestral (not drums) music. I'm really interested in multi-band compressor and multi-band limiter usage. I'm not trying to bypass the experts. I'll probably still send my mixes to the experts, but that's the end stage before sending things for CD pressing. Before that, I still want to know how to do it.

Here are some things I've found. Not much. Hope others can contribute, so I can learn more!

This is the VSL page. The demos and tutorials are meant to sell their Vienna Suite product, but the tutorial is interesting, esp no. 4 on the multiband limiter and EQ.
http://vsl.co.at/en/211/497/1686/1673/1680/1095.htm

This one is by Dan Kury which I hope he doesn't mind me placing a direct link to his tutorial as it doesn't appear on his homepage. His idea of AUTOMATED multiband compressing is really something (instead of using just one setting for the entire mix, he changes it all the time to suit the mix).
http://www.dankury.com/tutorials/violinautomation.wmv

Any others with experience (esp the masters), please share! For the non-experts in mastering (like me ), also share how you would do mix and master your mixes in an orchestral or acoustic sound setting.

 

[hohoholalala]

My masterings pretty bad =). I usually just do a 2-4 db cut around 4khz to get rid of the digital sound and a bit of boost in the 300~ region to get warmth. Once in a while might use a stereo widener to give a bit of width to the strings. Don't usually do much compression prob high thresehold just a 4:1 or 2:1 with slow attack. I've always wanted to try sidechain compression that trigger whenever the choir shouts..think that might sound pretty cool =).

Mixing wise lots of reverb. Usually 2-3 verbs per section for early reflection. Predelay and early reflections volume based on how far they are from the conductor. Usually about 2 reverbs on the whole orchestra for the tail-end of the reverb. Might add a plate reverb for the percussion section depending on song. A trick hans zimmer used was to mix in a bit of distortion(overdrive?) to get some harmonics. Also, because of how air absorbs higher frequencies might just place an eq over a whole section and do a slight roll off of the highs. I think the technique is called british distortion rollback or something or other =).

If im using choir might add a bit of chorus or phase on it depending on how "epic" i want it.

Instruments wise,might use a delay on each instrument to account for the fact that sound reaches the right and left ear at different times. One thing i always do is add a nice warm synth to fatten the french horns or trombones. For some reason I find this doesnt work well with trumpets. For the bass section (tuba, cello, contra) i sometimes add a synth that doubles the notes they're playing one octave down. Doubling every contra note on timpani, range be willing, is another technique commonly used to fatten the sound. One thing i notice a lot about the remote control productions school is the emphasis on lows and highs but not so much mids.

That's about as much as i do =).

 

[Cheez]

That's helpful! Thanks for your insight!

But keeping to limiting and compressing, any more ideas?

 

[Radius_Vector]

I have not done too many orchestral mixes in the past but I do have plenty of experience with mixing. However, Ive been in touch with a lot of sound engineers who do orchestral music , and the general rule of thumb also applies here - to go easy on the midrange compression (thats where the sweet spot for a lot of your instruments lie), and compress the highs to taste.

And yes, a multiband compressors will definitely do you much more good than compression on the whole mix (as this could affect the subtle layering of the instruments you oh so painstakingly did during the mix process). However, if overall track compression is a MUST, then it is suggested that you mix with a compressor on your output bus, so that way whatever changes you make are immediately dealt with by the compressor => better mix decisions.

Also, sometimes when it comes to mastering, small things are overlooked. Placement of your monitors, acoustic environment makes a big difference in the perception of orchestra, more so if you are using plenty of reverbs.

 

[widdly]

A multiband compressor can really screw up your transients. If you have say an orchestral hit that has a lot of energy across the whole spectrum, and you have different compressor settings (in particular different attack settings) for different frequency bands, you end ruining the impact of the hit since some bands come in louder than others or are compressed very quickly etc. So what was initial a strong impact gets "smeared" in time. Keep a very close eye (ear?) on your transients if you are going to run the whole bus through a multiband.

 

[Cheez]

Good point widdly. Hence why automated compressing makes more sense, perhaps. But lots of work. And not to mention more CPU power.

 

[Radius_Vector]

Cheez - your display picture did drive me crazy for a couple seconds. heh

But anyway, being a lazy fella, Id rather take the orthodox style as opposed to automated compression. If you really want to max out the advantages of automated compression it would definitely take you a lot of time to adjust the parameters to suit each mix.

Id like to hear more ideas on whole-bus compression in the symphonic context, multi-band or not.