Master volume and non master volume VALVE AMPS

[Benjamin Hwang]

Hello softies,

I have a question. I want to know if lets say you have a 20watt valve amp with master volume and separate gain control, will you still be able to crank up and get fairly good distortion tones with a low volume (bedroom volume)?

I do know that you have to turn up the volume in order to heat up the tubes for a non MV valve amp but how about those with? And how does a valve amp with separate volume and gain controls compare to one without? Is the one without give you better tone?

Anyway, i am comparing something like the vox ac4 compared to lets say, a jet city 20w valve amp with separate gain and volume controls?

Thank you for ur time

 

[zesn]

If the amp's cranked sound sucks, abit no point.

My friend's blackstar ht-5 sounds good cranked on the gain but low on the master volume.

My blues junior sounds really bad cranked on the gain but low on the master volume, not to mention even if i up the volume.

But i use pedals for my drive and distortion needs, so i'm still quite happy with how my blues junior take pedals.

 

[CyanideJunkie]

It all depends on the amp's design. Amps like the Jet City series are designed to get most of its breakup from the preamp section, whereas AC-style amps rely on a combination of preamp and output tube distortion to generate its signature tones. Cranking the preamp whilst keeping the Master low for the latter usually results in a thin and lifeless tone.

Classic amps like the JTM45 and the '57 Deluxe sported non-MV designs, meaning that the preamp section had to be turned up to a point where the output section of the amp begins to clip as well in order to produce those classic rock tones. Later on, newer amps started to sport a MV circuit design which allowed the player to tame the amount of signal hitting the output section of the amp while preserving the amount of saturation on the preamp, theoretically providing the same type of sound but at a lower volume. However, this method is far from perfect. The more common MV circuits can be guilty of "choking" the amp's tone when set at too low a level. Imagine yourself screaming at a high volume; someone then decides to lower your volume by squeezing your neck. What follows, would be your amplified voice losing clarity, articulation, dynamics and punch. A macabre illustration but you get the picture. Most tone hounds would instead turn to an attenuator or a Lar Mar PPIMV circuit mod to get better results, but these options are still not without its drawbacks. Currently, the best method of signal attenuation is the London Power Scaling.

But in all honesty, even when it comes to amps like the Jet City series, it sounds a whole better when it gets turned up.

 

[Benjamin Hwang]

Thank you for the replies! I have a clearer picture now

I guess i should be sticking to lower wattage amps like around 5 watts with wattage switching. I want to play at reasonable volumes without disturbing my neighbours and stuff like that and also wanting good and classic rock distortion tones out.

 

[CyanideJunkie]

Just FYI, even a 5-watt full tube amp will be pretty loud when cranked. When I had my AC4, I rarely brought it past noon on the 4-watt setting. If you can find an amp with a headphone out, chances are that you can trick it into a pseudo-Low-Power mode by plugging a dummy cable end into it. Really handy for when you have to keep the volume down.

 

[Benjamin Hwang]

Im actually leaning towards the Vox lil night train which is at 2 watts, or the Vox ac4 halfstack. Ive tried out the halfstack but it seems like a Les Paul sounds abit too bassy and muddy on it, and there isnt any bass or mid controls on the ac4, so im going to try out the lil night train next time.

Any opinions on the lil night train? I only have a Les Paul at home and im going to stick with it for quite some time, im only a student and not planning to get another guitar any sooner. I also own the wampler plextortion currently. Thank you!

 

[CyanideJunkie]

The Lil' Night Train would be a better fit for your rig. AC-style amps can be pretty picky when it comes to dirt pedals. The Lil' NT will sound more "Vox-meets-Marshall".

 

[Benjamin Hwang]

I play lots of Led Zeppelin and Guns N Roses, and also interested in bands like Black Sabbath, Gary Moore, Queen. Majority actually use Les Paul and Marshall. I want a classic crunchy tone with a vox rig and also be able to go more overdrive with my plextortion.

Thank you very much! All that is left is to test out the lil night train, im also thinking of pairing it up with the 112NT instead from the original night train since its is a 12" and has a celestion greenback. I am also considering the vox ac4c1 blue edition, but there isnt a low watt switch for it.

 

[CyanideJunkie]

In that case, I would stick with the Night Train series but go for the 15W Night Train with 1x12 cab instead. The Lil' NT uses a 12AU7 for its output section, which always struck me as weird. The 15W version features a Triode mode where you can run the amp at 7.5W and you can get pretty good tones out of it at low volume.

 

[Benjamin Hwang]

Im only a student, and so money is a cause of concern for me @.@

Thank you for ur suggestions, i really appreciate them.

 

[CyanideJunkie]

Haha no worries. Just do what you can, with what you can. As long as you're happy with the results, that's all that matters.