Mac or Windows laptop?

ceing

New member
Hello fellow softies, As the title states, im looking for a laptop, and im nt sure which one to choose, a macbook or a hp pavillion (windows vista).

Basically i will be using the laptop to do my schoolwork (obviously), and onli 1 or 2 games. And i will be using the laptop in the near future to learn about recordings, mixing and stuff (If possible). And to compose and store composed songs.
 
for value:
A windows lappy would suffice.



both can do what you want/need
none better than the other
 
=ceing

Since you gonna try out some recording in the near future, a Macbook already has GarageBand pre-installed.

Macbook is less prone to virus attacks (even now that it is using Intel processors). I have been using both Windows and Mac. My Windows OS laptops only lasted for 2 years yet my old iBook G4 can still run ever since December 2004 without a major problem. My last Windows OS laptop succumbed to spyware only like 2-3 weeks after purchase and both my Macs (old iBookG4 and the new Macbook) have been almost virus-free till now.

If you're willing to make the switch, you should consider getting a Macbook. However, there are a lot of people who are already so comfy with Windows OS interface and they perceive that switching OS requires a major re-education and re-adjustment. If you belong to this latter group, then I guess you should get a reliable Windows OS laptop.
 
=fullmetal

i was one of those people, and got a macbook only to realise i had perceived wrongly! the mac, especially with the leopard os is very fun to use (:
 
A Macbook isn't really expensive anymore. What's expensive is a Macbook Pro, which I'm pretty sure you're not going to make full use of. So, get a Mac.

Why is everyone telling you to get a "Mac"? Well, the truth is, most of them don't know what they're talking about. When it's a Mac, it's all in the operating system aka "OS". Based on BSD, which is UNIX + enhancements, Mac OS 10 (wherever did the Romans go?!) provides you with one of the best computing experience. Inherent solid networking frameworks are one of the reasons why there's a 0 virus statistic. Multimedia production, such as Professional Audio and Graphics, are best done on such a platform. Core Audio and Apple's graphics (both raster and vector) rendering component are beyond Windows' built-in audio and graphics subsystem.

Well, that's all bullcrap considering how much tight control the hardware+software is under. But that's how the magnificence is achieved - via control. Nevertheless, Mac OS > Windows anyday :) Hey wait, I meant Linux > * (everything).
 
personally i think that a Mac is catered more to recordings and audio. More for the art sides. Windows is better to use for work instead. So probably get a windows laptop first. When u start wanting to record, then purchase a Mac. Better investment i feel.
 
Most of today's DAW audio interface and editing/sequencing softwares can run well on both Mac and PC platform. Even Digidesign ProTools caters to both Mac and PC!

However there are a select few that run exclusively on one platform. I was reading from another thread about Apogee products, noticed that most Apogee stuff runs on Mac. And someone highlighted that Merging Technologies runs on Windows.

On a personal note, I do find your question very amusing (apologies if you find this offensive). If I were in your position, I would get a Mac. This is so that I will be noticed as being chic, with the "in crowd". You see, for a very long time Apple Inc. have marketed their products with aesthetic design in mind. And with distinctive advertising campaigned as "lifestyle products", your gear become a fashion statement!

Unfortunately, like any products out there, nothing is really absolutely "perfect". Things actually do breakdown (due to user and/or design fault). And although "rare" there are reported cases of virus attacks on Apple computer (according to the their official website).

So choose your poison and ignore the critics because it is your money and your life!
 
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Get a mac. It works better with sound. If you really need windows, its can be installed in the mac too... Personally i feel that mac works much much more better with sound, for school work, should'nt be a problem too. And os vista sucks way too much for me to do anything. Lags way too much...xp is better..mac pawns... hahaha :D
 
Windows was never designed to meet the requirements of creative professionals. That is why things like ASIO had to come into the picture.
 
Mac is definitely a much better option... But be prepared to invest in recording softwares like the ones found on iLife and Logic Studio...
 
Depending on ur needs..

I was a PC user until I crossover to Mac.. I never looked back!!

Cheapest MacBook is $1688.. If you buy online, you are entitled to education discount, so pricing will be only $1548.. Comes with 1 year warranty..

Better still, upgrade to 3 years wty and protection with the Apple Protection Plan with a topup of $346..
 
a lot depends on your budget really. if you're thinking of just a temporary relief, get a windows laptop and get a second-hand one with WINDOWS XP. you won't have any fun with windows vista. i've played with both and i'm telling you, if you're looking to play with audio stuff later on, a windows vista laptop will produce a hell load of problems. not to mention your driver problems as well.

if you're thinking of long-term, get a mac. cos mac has 'parallel' or the buggy 'bootcamp' and you can run both OS-s, the best of both worlds if you wish. but my advice would be to spare to expense to upgrade the mac, cos upgrading it later on will cost you a bomb. :(

i'm torn between both as well (in terms of upgrading la), but i'd get a mac if i've got the time to wait and see where the market price is going (up or down).
 
Most Mac proponents will rave about how good it is, and how much better it is than the windows PC. Seriously, most of them are looking at things through tinted glasses.
Even before Mac switched to using CISC architecture, they have been yakking about how much better it is for professional applications, how much more performance you get... but in the end, still switched to x86. Now, PCs and Macs are based on similar hardware. The only differentiating point is the branding, and the software.

It's true that the Mac OS does not suffer from many viruses etc... this is simply because few people actually write viruses to attack Mac. Fewer people use Mac, and virus writers usually want to affect as many as possible. BUT, if you're gonna use Bootcamp, your Windows partition is still going to get these nasty malware without necessary precautions.



Myth - A Mac is faster than a Windows PC. This is definitely not true, and has never been since the PowerPC days, despite the benchmarks provided by Apple. Now that Macs are using x86 CPUs, the performance is roughly equal on the same hardware. That said, it must be noted that it is generally easier to upgrade your PC. Some sore Mac fans might disagree, but it's true.

Myth - There are more Mac applications for graphics/sound. This is again, not true. The Mac comes with free GarageBand, but that is not really meant for professional use. If you really look at the applications available to Windows PC, I think you'll agree that the Windows OS has more choices when it comes to real professional tools. There is a reason why most animators use Windows PC.
Sure, if you need to, you can dual-boot your Mac and use the Windows OS - in this case you get the best of both worlds. But of course, that also means you get the worst of both worlds.

Myth - Mac OS handles graphics better. The truth about graphics is: it depends on your graphics card. You pop in the latest graphics card on a 3-year old PC, you get much better graphics than the latest MacBook, which often uses only the integrated graphics (very slow compared to a dedicated card). No surprises - the gamers use only PCs.

Myth - Mac OS handles sound better. If you are looking at the professional level, ASIO works the same for both Mac and PC. If you really study how ASIO works, I'm sure you'll agree with me. For professional sound work, this is a level playing field, i.e. there is not much difference between using PC or Mac. There is probably better driver support for the PC, though. So you better check that there is good driver support on the Mac for your audio interface.

Myth - Windows OS is very unstable. Hmm... Windows Vista maybe. Most users are happy with WinXP SP2 stability. Don't buy into the Apple marketing of "It just works". WinXP SP2 just works too! There is a good reason why it is the de facto standard OS. Actually, Vista is also not unstable, it's just slow.

Myth - Windows cannot sleep/hibernate/poor battery life etc. This is simply not true.



Fact - A Mac is generally considered to be less upgradeable, so if you're looking to change a HDD, add more RAM etc., Windows PC is the way to go.

Fact - There are more software and driver support for Windows OS (XP, not Vista). But of course, also more viruses etc.

Fact - Audio work is pretty much platform independent. Most VSTs plugins work equally well on both platforms. Sometimes (just sometimes), they are optimized for the Win PC. If you have done any signal processing coding and compiler work before, you'll know what I'm talking about. Also, almost all plugins in recent years are designed on a Win PC (usually coded in / integrated into MATLAB).

Fact - A Mac can enjoy the "best of both worlds" - if you really need both OSes, you can always dual-boot. But with it comes the "worst of both worlds", so you got to be a little careful.

Fact (subjective) - The Apple Mac designs looks way cooler than any PC can ever be. But it comes at a higher price, for equivalent hardware.



The choices:
Exclusively Mac OS: You lose out on a lot of software choice. But you suffer only few malware. You get to show off to all your friends how cool your computer looks.
Dual boot Mac+Win: You get the software choices of Win OS, but get the malware as well.
Exclusively Win OS : You get more software. You have better upgradeability, things are slightly cheaper as well, but you may run into more malware problems.



Bottomline:
If you want to be cool, go get the Mac. Best is MacBook Air. It's so thin I fear I might break it with 2 fingers. Dual-boot it to be even more cool. Recommended for designers and fashionable people.
If you want to play games, get the Win PC.
If you want to do serious graphics work, get the Win PC.
If you want to do serious sound work, either is fine; but before you get a Mac, check out the drivers first just to be safe.
 
"Seriously, most of them are looking at things through tinted glasses ... but in the end, still switched to x86 ... The only differentiating point is the branding, and the software."

True.

"It's true that the Mac OS does not suffer from many viruses etc... this is simply because few people actually write viruses to attack Mac."

This is an arguement abused to the extent that it's entirely nullified by the fact that the inherent BSD architecture has a strong networking foundation. Before you, and many others, come to such a conclusion please help yourselves to understanding the underlying mechanisms of Unix networking. It's true that Unix itself had/has a number of loopholes, but platforms based upon and influenced from such a system have shown us that BSD (particularly OpenBSD and FreeBSD) have a great number of improvements and controls. Linux- and BSD-based OSs are safe from most forms (technical POV) of "virii" thanks largely to the networking infrastructure and user policies. There is, however, no running away from internal exploits for any visual or non-visual operating system. We see OS 10 getting pwned in the latest Pwn-2-Own contest via Safari :lol:

"BUT, if you're gonna use Bootcamp, your Windows partition is still going to get these nasty malware without necessary precautions."

Precisely.

"Myth - A Mac is faster than a Windows PC."

Dispelled. A Mac bootstraps much faster due to EFI even with AHCI. Try that with BIOS. Runtime speed of software depends entirely on hardware code, thus has no part to play in this since we're looking at x86_32 and 64, not RISC like Power or MIPS. If we're looking at it from a programming standpoint then we can talk about the speed of C++ over OO languages but that's off-topic and a useless debate.

"Myth - There are more Mac applications for graphics/sound."

Indeed.

"If you really look at the applications available to Windows PC, I think you'll agree that the Windows OS has more choices when it comes to real professional tools. There is a reason why most animators use Windows PC."

Dispelled. Windows has more choices because Microsoft has been playing dirty until the EU took action recently. There is no reason at all why "everyone" seems to use Windows. It's entirely because nobody knows there are alternatives, all they know is that the computer starts and something called "Windows" is there to greet them.

"Myth - Mac OS handles graphics better. The truth about graphics is: it depends on your graphics card."

Dispelled. The entire rendering and drawing framework of OS 10 is better in code and usage than that of any other platform, even Linux. 2D vector and raster libraries have a particular way of determining the various points that make up visual properties, and OpenGL has always been leading professional graphics. This was studied and researched some time ago, look it up. By the way, the bigger graphics guys used SGI and IRIX for a while many years back, now replaced with Linux. The hollywood guys have Macs to do the artwork and a Linux renderfarm to do the bulk of the 3D.

"Myth - Mac OS handles sound better. If you are looking at the professional level, ASIO works the same for both Mac and PC ... there is not much difference between using PC or Mac."

Dispelled. Did you have a look at Core Audio? How about the recent Vista blogs about "improving" the audio subsystem? In layman terms: I can record with budget hardware on Linux, but not on Windows. Why? I cannot bypass mixer-level latencies without bringing in ASIO. Note, I'm talking about on-board audio chipsets. On Windows, I'd get as much as 1500~ms. With ASIO, things are better at 100~. On Linux, I'm getting just 40~ with the help of JACK, and 200~ without.

"Myth - Windows OS is very unstable ... WinXP SP2 just works too!"

Agree.

"There is a good reason why it is the de facto standard OS."

I say it again, there is no good reason. Look above.

"Myth - Windows cannot sleep/hibernate/poor battery life etc."

Yes. It does those well, in fact.

I do think that Microsoft is more "open" than Apple. However, I also think Apple is "cooler". A way to get that chick you always dreamt about, correct. IMHO, the Macbook Air is a joke.
 
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i think the current range of macbooks are overpriced, you can get a laptop of similar specs without os from sim lim sq and install leopard for so much cheaper.

gutturalpiss: what distro are you using? any idea how to get line6 stuff to work
 
Hi gutturalpiss,

Good points from you.

Point on viruses: More people write viruses for the Win OS than for Mac OS. I don't see why this is a flawed argument. If all malicious coders start focusing on Mac OS, and leave Win OS alone... the Win OS will not suffer problems with viruses. I agree with you, BSD is probably a better architecture. But, the fact remains that malicious coders are more intent on targeting Win OS than Mac OS, which is the direct cause of the malware problems in Win OS.

Point on Mac faster than PC: They use basically the same hardware. And most of the time, you can get better hardware on a PC with the same amount of money. Plus, a PC is more upgradeable. Once again, I agree with you. I even think Ubuntu is a great OS, but when measuring performance, it is really more about hardware than software. Yes, we can talk all day about compiler optimizations etc. but the fact remains that Mac OS cannot be considered faster than Win OS, vice versa.


Point on graphics: You can point to how the Mac handles graphics internally, but the point really is... your dedicated graphics accelerator is the biggest determinant of your graphics speed. Most Macs don't come with a dedicated 3D card. The Pro series do, but at a very much higher price. Compare that with a "typical Win OS PC". When people design 3D models, animation etc. more often than not, they use a PC. Many people use 3D Studio Max, coupled with fast GPUs; I have yet to see anyone run 3ds max (or the Mac equivalent) on a Mac.
If you spend maybe $2000 on a Mac, and I spend $2000 on a PC, it's more likely I can render graphics faster than you can, simply because the Mac probably uses an Intel integrated graphics, whereas the PC probably uses a 8600GT.

We are not talking about big-scale rendering, so let's not bring in render farms. Some even use distributed computing to render graphics! For movie productions etc... I think most design work are done on very specific proprietary software few other people even use. For a normal home/office user, these things are of no relevance at all. Yes, you might be right. But it's really apples/oranges when you talk about Direct3D vs OpenGL.


About sound: yes the Windows kernel mixer sucks. But the point is: in ASIO, there is no difference. ASIO doesn't really care what OS you are running. Any musician who plugs in an audio interface will surely use ASIO to record their tracks. ASIO4ALL provides good clean drivers for Win OS. Yes, you cannot do any fruitful recording work on Win OS without bringing in ASIO. So... bring in ASIO!

I disagree that people are unaware about Macs. Apple has been rather successful in their marketing, especially in recent years. I think the big reason about why Windows is the "industry standard" was due to MS "superior" business strategies/branding since maybe 1-2 decades ago. Once consumers got used to a certain software, they are reluctant to change. This spurred software developers to make more software for Win OS than Mac OS. Snowball effect... Regardless of what happened in the past, fair or not, the truth is: there are more choices in the Win OS. This is part of the motivation why they even made Bootcamp for the Mac users - so that people can continue to run their favourite Win OS applications.

Architecturally, the Mac OS X is maybe a better OS than the Windows bloatwares. I agree with you. But we don't make choices based on how each OS runs. There are also good literature showing weaknesses of the x86 architecture. But we still buy x86 machines. I don't like Win OS, I think it's good that the Macs are slowly gaining more popularity now. But let's not sweepingly say "Mac is better". There are many points worth considering when it comes to a choice between the two.
A gamer will be deeply disappointed to know that many games cannot run on the Mac OS. And even when he runs bootcamp, the Intel integrated graphics cannot spit out frames fast enough.
Similarly, some guy who uses Logic exclusively may be disappointed to know that he cannot run it on a Win OS.

Once again, the main point is:
Don't buy into myths that say Macs perform better than PCs in graphics/sound etc. When and if you buy a Mac, you're paying for the design etc, not because it is undeniably superior to the Win OS.

Sorry for the long posts!
 
godchuanz: now, you have the perfect points ;) doesn't get any clearer than that.

hifi_killer: not any distro in particular, but a meta-distro: Arch. Never used a POD device so I can only direct you to the relevant site and a brand new Linux music forum where you will get help. If you have IRC then there are #ardour, #LAD and ##linuxaudio on freenode network. I'm omnipresent in those during working hours sometimes and after dark under the alias schivmeister.
 
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