le papillon waltz (instrumental/electronic/posh-rock)

[dir]

hello friends, I've just recorded a new track on my awesome space machine.

I've always wanted to make waltzes. After watching The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, I finally had enough inspiration to ham one up.



Critiques are welcome.

you can also stream here and here.

edit: fixed the piercing bells a little and also the timing issues!

 

[billthegeek]

Woah dude, fantastic song. I like the drums. The production quality is also damn good.

May I ask what effects and audio software do you use? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[dir]

effects chain is pretty simple
echo -> overdrive -> delay -> reverb -> digitech rp50

Recorded using gearbox with toneport. Drums/electronics programmed with fruity loops. All put together in Adobe Audition 1.5.

It's a barebones setup. Thinking of upgrading to Audition 3.0 soon to take advantage of Guitar Rig, Amplitube and ReValver MKIII rigorous modeling and effects. Also the RP50 is a noisy pedal so I have to ditch that for recording in the future.

Thanks for the comment!

edit: also pardon the slight timing issues and the killer piercing bells. (guess I shouldn't be mixing at 5am) I'm gonna fix them when I get some time soon!

 

[xmetallicx]

mm love the new song bro, epic =3

 

[adsr]

Interesting composition you have there...

My 2 cents:

Instrument level:
Drums are rather dull, monoaural, slightly tubby sounding...on a personal note, not a big fan of the snare minigun
Cymbals sound like parchment and a bit flat
Distorted guitar is kinda grainy and brittle
Bells are still way too piercing and one-dimensional
Bass kinda "sways" around, sounds like a compression issue
Delay on right clean guitar is slightly too long (personal taste issue)
Clean guitar could sound slightly sweeter (personal taste issue again, might be caused by your RP50 quality)

Mix level:
The epic distorted guitar should swap places with the cymbals around 6:15
Mix sounds a bit constricted overall
Soundstage is a bit patchy/inconsistent
Drums drowned out during "epic" part


Sorry if what I said is harsh, feel free to disagree :mrgreen:

 

[dir]

thanks for the great feedback, adsr. They are all valid criticism, and is exactly what I was looking for.

I agree with the drums sounding bad. I went the easy route and exported this as a submix when mixing it, without actually exporting it to individual tracks and mixing it with the rest of the instrument. This was meant as a demo really till I can get live drum tracks. As a result I couldn't really eq it to perfection and it gets drowned out during the intense parts. The cymbal crashes and decay also sounds horrible.

I have tone issues, I must admit. Trying to find a way around that with new software modelers. Thanks for the comment on the bell, I will find a way to make it livelier and less piercing still.

I'm an amateur at mixing so I'm still learning as I'm going. I try to go for a natural sound as and when possible. Please don't hold back with the tips and criticism

edit:

The epic distorted guitar should swap places with the cymbals around 6:15

I don't quite get this. Do elaborate.

 

[adsr]

thanks for the great feedback, adsr. They are all valid criticism, and is exactly what I was looking for.

I agree with the drums sounding bad. I went the easy route and exported this as a submix when mixing it, without actually exporting it to individual tracks and mixing it with the rest of the instrument. This was meant as a demo really till I can get live drum tracks. As a result I couldn't really eq it to perfection and it gets drowned out during the intense parts. The cymbal crashes and decay also sounds horrible.

I have tone issues, I must admit. Trying to find a way around that with new software modelers. Thanks for the comment on the bell, I will find a way to make it livelier and less piercing still.

I'm an amateur at mixing so I'm still learning as I'm going. I try to go for a natural sound as and when possible. Please don't hold back with the tips and criticism

You're welcome, its nice to know honest feedback is appreciated

Not to hold you back from live drums, but drum libraries can sound pretty decent and you won't have to deal with drum micing, drum selection and drummers. Not that I have a thing against live drums, but I'd just like to give you a head's-up when dealing with live drums, especially if you don't have a big budget (for studio time) and a telephone number of a good drummer.

Try dipping with a big Q (2 and upwards) around 4-8k on the bells to reduce the piercing. Note that you're just after the piercing issue, don't deaden it too much.

And try sending the bell to a plate reverb with a predelay of around 20-40ms

 

[daryl]

sounds good

 

[dir]

thanks for the tips, this was a composition meant for my band actually, so I do hope to record live drums and perform it live someday! Currently looking for a suitable place to record drums.

Also I have no idea how to compress or eq bass properly. I just usually roll off <80Hz with a slight bump bump in the upper mids and set a 0 attack fast release compressor and get prematurely satisfied with it. Any tips here would be excellent.

 

[adsr]

About the swap places thingy, I meant that the distorted guitar should be more upfront than the cymbals.

As for the bass, right now it sounds a bit growly. Take some EQ off the mids and try around the 250 and 125 Hz region.

As for your compression settings, try a slow attack and slow release comp. Attack around 20-30 ms, adjust release to taste. Note that threshold and ratio settings also play a part in compression, not just attack/release settings.


In case you're wondering why I don't provide exact values, mixing is all about hearing, which without hearing your original track and seeing your compressor/EQ, there's no way I can give you an exact value.

 

[senn_liu]

nice effort, especially since it's not the usual emo/punk/singer-songwriter stuff. not gonna comment too much on the production side of things (what can you add to the advice of someone with a nick like adsr i.e. attack-decay-sustain-release haha)

as far as composition/arrangement goes, the chimey-bell-sounds loop way too many times for my liking, are not in the right key. perhaps this is intentional, but i would still advice tweaking them to be "in tune".

as for the the glitchy drum parts, they are interesting in concept, but come off as a little obnoxious in execution.

the problem with the sort of post rock thing that you are going for here is that it can either be really natural and cathartic or come across as lacking ideas, so you have to be careful of repeating for the sake of flsehing out the piece. this is not to say that i think that's what you're doing, just a general thought on post rock.

no offence meant, just my 2 cents' worth. in fact, overall, some interesting ideas are to be found in your work. keep going, and take into account adsr's production pointers.

cheers,
andrew

 

[adsr]

Haha I'm just another person...perhaps with some training in music production lol.

Great to have some feedback on the composition/arrangement side of things (my lesser side, I admit), and hey, it'd be interesting to have some additional feedback/opinions on the production stuff, so don't hold back. After all, not everybody approaches mixing the same way

 

[dir]

Thanks for the honest and insightful comment, senn_liu. I shall keep them in consideration when I'm composing next time. Also this is far from a finished piece, so there will be changes to this song in the future.
I'm a long-time fan of glitchy drums, after being intro'd to aphex twin and venetian snares. Part of the appeal is not just being obnoxious, but being obnoxious with style I'll work harder to make more complex breaks though!

 

[senn_liu]

funny, i've been listening to venetian snares' "rossz csillag alatt született" these few days.

 

[dir]

excellent album that, thought I've always been more partial to Songs About My Cats.

 

[shredrat]

freaking cool stuff u;ve got!