keyboard fingerings

[kazuki]

Hello everyone,

i am a newbie keyobard player.. play mostly pop (for now) how do u guys placed your fingers hen lets say u wanna play out a solo? Like how u know whichfinger to use for which notes, when to cross over? Are there are basic guide lines to go aout placing fingerings?

thanks a lot for all help! =)

 

[pf]

Pop is generally anyhow. Whatever fingerings that is sensible and works for you.

In the book titled "Great Pianists Speak" which consists of interviews of a number of classical pianists by Adele Marcus published in 1979. I read that a couple of teachers (classical pianists) cringed when they see the fingerings of of their students. However, when they close their eyes and listen, they thought it sounds ok. So, they didn't bother to make their students do the fingerings they thought its better.

 

[Cheez]

You can do it anyhow but certain firgerings will limit or expand your dexterity and flexibility.

Easy way to start - play scales.

 

[pf]

Cheez,

does playing scales help in having better fingerings? Or did you mean play scales to expand dexterity and flexibility?

 

[[vogue]angel]

well, for me, it's all about which is comfortable for u. if u have hands like Rachmaninov. ( his hands are so big , he can stretch to around 12 keys), then u no need to move so much, coz big. if ur's r small, then find a way or pracitce dexterity.

i once read a book by those classical pianist ( i think it's claude debussy), he mention tat the fingering are just to aid u in some way. wat kind of fingering the composer has written down, ( might or might not suit you) , so it depends on hands

Pf. scales do help in fingering. Kazuki, playing keys is all about creativity. imitate wat ur fav keyboardist do ( i tried mimacking JR's playing after watching DT: Live In Budokan )

watch and then test it out, tat's wat i usually do

 

[Cheez]

Pf, scales do help in fingering esp in the context of what Kazuki mentioned (when to cross over fingers etc). And with better fingering, dexterity improves. Some phrases are just easier played with certain fingering than others.

 

[pf]

I see. I didn't realise that. Do people cross fingers in playing a lot besides doing scales?

 

[kazuki]

I see. I didn't realise that. Do people cross fingers in playing a lot besides doing scales?

good question, i was lol


hmm do we try to follow the fingerings on scales as much as posisble?

i watched DT live on budokan too.. jordan's fingers moved toofast to be seen (by me) -.- i am still not good enough to catch fast finger movements on video XD

 

[pf]

I agree with Cheez that for some phrases, certain fingerings work better than others.

But those difficult phrases that needs to be thought through which fingerings to use, I would try out different fingerings and make sure that its the most convenient one...most likely won't involve cross fingers. Or maybe that's just me.

Or maybe I haven't done really complicated songs yet. =)

 

[Cheez]

Yes, we have to cross fingers all the time during scales to make it legato - usually 3/4th notes and 7/8th notes in a standard scale. If the scale starts on a black key, fingering and finger crossing changes. If the 4th key is a black key (eg F major), finger crossing changes again (to 4/5th notes).

 

[kazuki]

thanksguys! sorry fr missing for a day XD

so i guess the conclusion now is to owself place the fingering where comfortable?

Are there any such of methods like 'anchoring' a finger to a note?


oh btw if i play the 'thumbs over' method for fingers crssing, its not really possible to make it legato right? unless its prettyfast...

 

[Cheez]

You can still make it legato without crossing fingers, but in certain phrases, it just woudn't be "natural". And it may impede the dexterity and affect the speed of playing.

Pf, many times, the most convenient fingerings would include crossing fingers (ie thumb over or under). I use it almost all the time. It's not just scalic runs, but in many other occasions (like mordent-type phrases etc).

 

[pf]

Thanks Cheez!

I didn't realise that my scale playing actually rubs off on me when I play songs until this is being discussed. Now I noticed that I do thumb under and finger over unconciously. Hahaha.... Can't visualise the thumb over method though.

 

[Cheez]

Oh, sorry... typed without thinking. No thumb over! Only thumb under and finger over! Haha... Will take an extremely long thumb to do thumb over!!!

 

[pf]

Yeah!! I was thinking how can the cute little thumb go over anywhere?! hahaha....

 

[kazuki]

hmmm i read from this site about piano fundamentals, they said that its better to do thumbs over.. as when speed gets up, the action of thumb under is very against the structure of the human fingers, hence thumbs over plays faster.. and many who had plays just thumbs under for years have probs learning the faster scale playings of thumb over.. so for me i just use thumbs over =.=

link is here, they have a video too on thumbs over =)

Fundamentals of Piano Practice

 

[pf]

Is it this vid? Demonstrating the TU and TO technique

Don't see any thumb going over other fingers...thats what I thought when you said "thumb over"....

Quoting from the website....

"In the TO method, the thumb is treated like the other 4 fingers, thus greatly simplifying the motion"

So, that means to play where the thumb a reach lah?? Just move the whole hand and let the thumb play straight, isn't it??? So confusing....

Anyways, kazuki, I suggest that if you don't have any bad constraints....to get a good teacher at the beginning stage. At least make sure

1. you don't cultivate any bad habits (as you mentioned that you don't want before.... sometimes we really don't notice the bad habits that we do have unless people point out).

2. you don't suffer injuries.

Then after some lessons and acquiring some basics, when you source for other learning materials later on...you would know if they're worth your time or not. Not saying that the website that you visited is not useful but judgement is involved. And the process of acquiring the technique/how one uses available material might also affect the playing.

Nothing against self-teaching but I thought that is more efficient and effective at the beginning to have a real person to guide you. Just imo. =)

 

[Cheez]

Video shows thumb under and finger over - no thumb over. Thumb cannot go "over" other fingers - to do so, the entire joint must be dislocated!

The person playing the scale - don't know, but his or her hands seem awfully jerky - bobbing too much up and down. Scales should be more finger movements rather than the hand.

What my piano teacher did to me 20+ years ago - put a coin on the back of my hand and play scales. Coin cannot drop. She did that more to demonstrate how my hands and fingers should move - she did not recommend me to practice with the coin.

 

[since1982]

Video shows thumb under and finger over - no thumb over. Thumb cannot go "over" other fingers - to do so, the entire joint must be dislocated!

The person playing the scale - don't know, but his or her hands seem awfully jerky - bobbing too much up and down. Scales should be more finger movements rather than the hand.

What my piano teacher did to me 20+ years ago - put a coin on the back of my hand and play scales. Coin cannot drop. She did that more to demonstrate how my hands and fingers should move - she did not recommend me to practice with the coin.

Yup! thumb over seems something you would expect only from tim burton's films..

anyway Cheez - i used to think that scales is all about fingers movement until i met my current teacher who demonstrated techniques such as weight control, shifting of weight, how to 'drop your weight' on the keys as you play etc, and to achieve that the wrist/hand must be completely relaxed, which also results in wrist movements which i find really adds diction to what i play.

but that demonstrated by the player in the video seems kinda erratic..

anyway as Pf mentioned, i second his views that it'll be good for you to source for a good teacher. having the right techniques can be really useful in bringing out all there is to your playing. Good luck!

 

[kazuki]

thanks guys, i will be getting a teacher soon, but still sourcing for one now..

the video is a little bit exagerated (as mentioned by the author) what i mean (he mean actually) by thumbs over is that, during changes in scales, to bring the whole hand with the thumb to the next note, instead of the thumb going under. This is for the purpose of the figners, especially the thumb to be always parallel to the keys...