Keyboard and Guitar

[pf]

hi folks,

wld like to ask a question on guitar and keyboard playing in a band. We have no bass guitar. So, should the keyboard be played with more bass to make up?

I'm more used to playing with both hands close together around the mid range. But the guitar says clashes with the guitar range. So, I have to play more towards the right side of the the keyboard. But the thing is that sometimes I cant hear myself very well when playing the higher ranges notes with the vocals, drums and guitar.

Suggestions and comments very much appreciated!

 

[Cheez]

Rhythm or lead guitar? Acoustic or electric guitar?

 

[pf]

rhythm guitar.....electric guitar used acoustically....hahaha....we're quite half past six.

 

[Cheez]

What's the setting like? What kind of music?

 

[pf]

Church band....play during praise and worship

 

[Cheez]

One last question - any other band members or is it just this electric guitar and you on the keyboard?

(easier if you give all the info in one go! )

 

[niteblade]

hmmm its better if you find a bassist

 

[pf]

Oh sorry....didn't know I have to provide so much info. Its typically 2 vocals, 1 drummer on drum pads, 1 guitar and 1 keyboard. That's it. No bass, no fancy stuff.

Guitar basically does the strumming and plucking.....

Keyboard plays the melody (as and when required) and comping....often does the intro to the songs.

Everybody's amature. Guitar has more experience, played like a number of years already. Keyboard and drummer plays for abt 1 yr only.

 

[Cheez]

Pf, my suggestion is getting your guitarist to switch to acoustic guitar instead of using an electric guitar. For your setting (church) and the type of music + combination, an acoustic guitar will be less distracting. Remember, the key is not to show off the skills of any instrumentalists.

To your original question, yes. Use more bass. In a band, do try not to play too much in the middle registers. Your guitarist is right. It muddles things up. Play the bass, and more treble. And the key is to play less than to play more. Playing less takes skills and experience - despite what it sounds like. It's not easy. Mature instrumentalists know when to play and when not to particularly in your setting.

Last thing, when playing higher registers, avoid 3rds like what I hear too often being used by church pianists. Too many 3rds clusters the notes. Use 6ths. Use scales. Play less. With these, you should do OK.

When you can't hear yourself, then a few things you need to check.

1. Do you have an amp? If yes, then turn the volume up. Or if you have a headphone, use it. If your piano is not miced, then forget point 1.

2. Again, this takes experience. You need to hear EVERYBODY instead of just hearing yourself. This is the key to playing in a band. Sometimes, you may not hear yourself. That's perfectly fine. If you can hear yourself too often, you may be fighting with the vocalists or other instruments. Play more when the vocalists are NOT singing - that is, use "answering phrases". Songs usually don't require singers to sing non-stop. They sing a phrase, rest for a few beats, then the next phrase comes in. Play during the rests by answering the first phrase being sung (ie answering phrases).

There's more, but too much to write now. I'll let others have a go...

 

[pf]

Yes, there's an amp. Good suggestion on the playing less.....hmmm...need to go figure how to fit in.

Sorry, what do you mean by not playing 3rds but more 6ths?

 

[Cheez]

Not no 3rds. Less 3rds. Use more open voicings instead of closed. Spread your notes apart.

 

[pf]

wahhh....ok, will try to figure out. =) Thanx Cheez!

 

[piano_ex]

e.g.

c major chord
c = tonic / root
e = 3rd
g = 5th
a = 6th

 

[iansoh]

See attachment for an illustration of what Cheez is talking about.

in red/orange colour, are 3rds. in blue/violet colour, are 6ths. so don't play 3rds in the higher register as what's shown in the attachment.

so where do we draw the line and decide which part of the register to start using 6ths? generally, i'd say 3rds are ok in the first octave starting from middle C (C4 to B4). however, over time as you gain experience, u develop a taste for it and make the decision yourself.

 

[Cheez]

Thanks Ian. Pf, that's what I was talking about.

 

[pf]

iansoh....

can't view the page leh.....the message below comes out....

pf, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

 

[pf]

hmmm....how come need to reduce 3rds to play ah???

Quite stressed sometimes....when it's all quiet during prayers and I got to play something. Wincing and cringing as I played a way off note....

 

[iansoh]

Here it is.

 

[pf]

thanks very much!!!

 

[hayabusa]

advice from a church bassist:

don't play directly from the piano scoresheet (taugeh) if there're any. it's meant to be played solo and covers the whole range of the piano.

you can play midrange, but instead of using piano voice, try to use voice or ambience instead. then you won't clash with the guitar although you're in the same range.

good luck!