"IN YOUR FACE" sound?

[auayw]

i was wondering how to get your instruments to sound big and as if it is playing right in front of you.

i have been learning about mixing for about 2,3 years now. The recordings i did was with pretty good mics like akg 414(for vox) and stuff so i have no excuse to say that i had a bad recording. I usually use close miking technics.

compared to comercial music where all the instruments are crystal clear, my mix was considered a piece of crap. everything sounded like they were played from 10m away. zzzz

all i know is that compression, and EQing the unwanted frequencies are and important role in this.

any tips or any other methods? please share!

 

[eugen3]

mic placement, judicious use of compression, good sounding room and a good performance

shit in= shit out

 

[OlaskZ]

get the artist to come 10m closer.

 

[blueprintstudios]

i don't know if my mixes are considered "in your face" enough. sometimes too much is no good. but my tips is : dead environment. close miking. decently hot preamp levels. compression and in your face i suppose you mean "loud" , so alot of limiting work (without overdoing it) also. check out my works at www.blueprintstudios.org ,Stellastory should be a decently good example.

 

[auayw]

[QUOTE=blueprintstudios

yeah. you have great mixes:mrgreen:. everything is defined and nicely compressed. can i ask how do you approach your limiting for your songs?

 

[blueprintstudios]

thanks man, appreciate your time taking a listen!

erm my approach for anything trial and error / the hard way method. it took me like 3 years to figure out how to get it loud first, then another 3 years to get it in "control". then after that by then a year later I realised sometimes softer is better.over limiting kills dynamics. and we're in an age where there's the "Loudness War" (Wiki it) , so it's the tinnitus-consumers vs the purist-consumers.(but it's the consumers who buy the record) and there are some who are in between. end of the day, you do your job as mixing/mastering engineer and give your band/client what they want you to represent as their sound, whether you like it or not, you're just going to make the best out of the worst environment you're given with.

in anycase before you touch the limiter, I don't know about other ppl's method in their mixing signal chain, but get your mixes balanced right first in terms of eq,compression,reverbs, etc. I've seen a few just go straight for the limiter to "shortcut" make weakmixes loud to cover up.

 

[MarcusH]

A few ideas

There's two ways of looking at this:

The unhelpful way of looking at it is that getting the music to sound up-front IS the art of mixing. So you just need to have years of experience and to do everything right!

More helpfully - and I'm guessing, (not heard your music) - here are a few ideas:

1) Many people don't get an up-front sound because they use too much reverb. Either too much reverb, or too long or unfiltered reverb and/or no pre-delay. So try less reverb, use reverb pre-delay, try shorter reverb and filtered reverb (top and bottom) .

2) Using delays in places where you used to use reverb will also help bring the sound forward - and filter the delay returns too.

3) You may be doing some of this, but just to check. For R&B I compress my drums three times: Once on each channel, secondly on the combined drum buss, and thirdly, parallel compression of the key components (kick, snare HH). The parallel compression is hard and distorted - but I only add a little. Don't over-do these tips or it sounds worse not better.

4) This is another idea which will sound bad if over-done - but some gentle high frequency boost can make sounds seem both clearer and nearer - but of course you can't do too much and you can't do it to all channels. And you can't do much with the 'normal' factory eq that comes with the DAW software.

What software are you using?

 

[THOA]

compared to comercial music where all the instruments are crystal clear, my mix was considered a piece of crap. everything sounded like they were played from 10m away. zzzz

Commercial music has an extra step right after mixing: mastering.

 

[auayw]

There's two ways of looking at this:

What software are you using?

Im using Logic. Yeah i get u about the reverbs. I also do use parallel compression on my drums. But still not used to setting the right settings

 

[logicdroid]

i was wondering how to get your instruments to sound big and as if it is playing right in front of you.

I use the Binaural plugin in Logic.

http://documentation.apple.com/search/?q=binaural&lang=&page_ref=&chapter_ref=&section_ref=

 

[MarcusH]

Im using Logic. Yeah i get u about the reverbs. I also do use parallel compression on my drums. But still not used to setting the right settings

The settings are really extreme, for maximum crunchy compression. :twisted: I use a third party plug-in compressor that I bought. The Logic compressor is quite good though. Try setting that in FET mode.


There were a couple of threads on Gearslutz about this:-

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/82888-please-explain-how-new-york-trick-works.html


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/74859-new-york-drum-compression-trick.html


About reverb and delay, there were a couple of articles in Sound on Sound last year that really helped me:-

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul08/articles/reverb1.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug08/articles/reverbpart2_0808.htm

Sound on Sound is excellent for this sort of thing. You have to subscribe for the recent stuff, but older back-issues are accessible for nothing. The forums are good too.

 

[smurfpiss]

Speaking of parallel compression, SSL's got an awesome free VST compressor that is perfect for parallel drum compression it's called the LMC-1 here's the link http://www.solid-state-logic.com/Music/LMC-1/index.asp, there's also an interesting story in there on how this compressor came to use.

 

[MarcusH]

SSL's got an awesome free VST compressor that is perfect for parallel drum compression it's called the LMC-1 here's the link http://www.solid-state-logic.com/Music/LMC-1/index.asp ...

That's right - it would be perfect - but be warned, it doesn't work on Intel Macs

It was so frustrating when I tried to instal - now they make it much clearer on the website - that if you have an Intel mac, then don't bother.

 

[RolandLim]

Hey auayw

Most of the guys here have shared some pretty cool shit, nothing much i can add to the " technical " side of things that hasn't been mentioned already .

however u need to look at how to apply the various amounts of tips and tricks available will actually work for u. i've literally gone thru thousands of tips/advice etc before settling down on a couple of signal chains that work for me .

It's extremely important to focus on different aspects of mixing elements because it will allow u to improve on a much a quicker level. for example because i'm a guitarist , i knew my drums sounds wouldn't be so amazing so i focused on getting good drum sounds and when i felt my drums sounds were up to scratch ( compared to my favorite mixers etc ) i moved on to getting a good vocal sound and then to bass and then to guitar . then i keep repeating the cycle . right now i'm focused on things like mix balance , and vocal delays and reverbs , etc etc the finer things that can make or break a mix .


some of my works that i went for the " in your face " sound :

www.myspace.com/trellaband
www.myspace.com/xaudioceanx
www.myspace.com/arturochaos
www.myspace.com/fbecore

Good luck and have fun in the journey of self discovery

Regards

Roland

 

[gutturalpiss]

Dynamics processing can only do so much. You won't get anywhere without:

layers

That's right, exactly what you want, need, and is why local records cannot make it. And it's nothing remotely close to trivial - takes skill, time, energy, money and patience before a good engineer and a better musician.

 

[blueprintstudios]

thing about layers is I feel the more there is it may be more than what most bedroom mixing engineers (since the TS is new,I'll put it this way) can handle. because personally the bands I record , they decide to layer more than 2 guitars. then from there 2 guitars I use a di box to split the signal between 2 amps (a mesa cab and a marshall cab) then from there each cab has 2 mics (usually 2 SM57s) + 1 room mike (if acoustics are good) , and I also record the DI raw signal to run through digi cabsims for the highs.
that's 1 guitar layer x 2x2 + 2 = 5 tracks. and if there's 5 guitar layers (2 rhythm, 2 riff 1 solo) for basic to start with. that's literally 25 tracks for "simple" guitars alone. but of course this leaves you with a huge sound combined if mixed properly on the compression/eq/reverb. It is a hugeass load of work but even a 100 orgasms will not describe the personal satisfaction upon results. Ultimately "money" becomes that factor cos really, most local bands are not particular till these details and if the cd sales barely cover the cd pressing it's going to be an issue even if you have an award winning mix but poor marketing which is why some bands spend more time/money on the "advertising". and that's a whole new topic there...

so end of the day, start small, you won't learn to run before you learn to walk, by the time you have ran a long way, you'll take a leap of faith and go out of your safety zone.

 

[gutturalpiss]

Yeah, that's a given. But by layers, I mean more on the musician's part, not quantity but quality. Aside from doubling/whatever-ing they have to compose their material beforehand to take into consideration these layers - in musical terms. Or they have to be proficient enough to figure something out while in the studio, to add that winning dissonance.

If you're a musician and engineer as well, it's something to try since money would then not be a problem. It just means getting out less.

 

[1tczx]

lol i tot u were asking how to get the sound in COB's song In Your Face -.-

 

[blueprintstudios]

Gutturalpiss : you mean consonance? (i'm not trying to correct you on english, just that I never heard this word before as a non educated individual so I was looking up on the dictionary)

like what Gpiss says , layering guitars is not just double or triple playing of the same thing , usually it involves mix-layering different guitars + and harmony-chords (to make it sound fuller) and the mixing of different amp tones and to make things complex further - different mike ups. and sometimes adding mini riffs background inside the rhythm chords as well. successful combination and compliment-ation of each other will also give that huge sound.

I've seen insane setups with the radial JD7 wiring up to 7 freaking amps etc.

"It just means getting out less." <-- oh ho ho ho hahah VERY... my last playtime in singlehood is in 2005 - 2006. I was starting out from '01 to '04, and '06 till now it's only work and wife. we all gotta make sacrifices..

 

[gutturalpiss]

Gutturalpiss : you mean consonance? (i'm not trying to correct you on english, just that I never heard this word before as a non educated individual so I was looking up on the dictionary)

Frankly I have no idea, this is one thing I picked up from hearsay and I don't know the exact spelling, just that it's supposed to refer to things like (or results of) playing around with harmonics and overtones (and it's supposed to sound good, not "harsh" unless we are speaking Death/Black or some derivative/relative). Looking at the meaning now reveals it to be the exact opposite, and consonance to be what it should be, but I don't know for sure :???: