How to record for first-timers?

delirium90

New member
Hi guys i have absolutely no gear yet, but am planning to just hook up a few eqpt when im free and attempt to do some recording if i could get started with it soon. hope to understand and get a rough idea of how things work before im actually free to do so!

1a) would first-timers normally go for paid-DAWs on top of AIs to ensure better quality recordings? or is it more than enough if we were to just use normal free third-party DAW softwares?

1b) ..and would condenser mics definitely be bang for bucks if you were to use em rather than dynamic mics?

2) if you were to do it like how youtubers have it done (video + audio synchronized), how are you supposed to do it? will it be so much more different from if you had only done the audio recording? (i.e. guitar/instruments >mic >preamp >PC/soundcard >DAW)

Hope to hear from you guys, thanks for your attention!
 
welcome to soft

to answer your questions

1a) first timers who have daddy's money to splurge will go for top end gear thinking you can outdrive anyone on the road by getting a ferrari after you attain your P plate. (in my opinion, the most skilled drivers are class 5 container/crane drivers.cos they're usually the guys who have all class 2,3,4,5) but probably never earn enough for a ferrari as well as see no point in driving one. So what happens if you spent $15K-$50K on gear but outdone by a guy who only spent $1.5K but $9.5K worth of effort in learning/experience and get to earn back+profit on what he invested? Wouldn't that be more de-moralising than training yourself with basic necessities first while having a fat wallet? I always say this "train&improve yourself with basic necessities for you have no reason to suck when you upgrade your equipment." 2nd part of your question is ,once you start, you'll find that it is NEVER ENOUGH. heh.

1b) you'll find this answer on the DIY Recording FAQ. but for an updated answer, if you were to gauge what you can do with a Shure SM57 dynamic mic (about $130) and Audio Technica AT2020 condensor mic (about $160) more definitely can be achieved with the AT2020 as you can use it for acoustic guitars/vocals/drums overheads/guitar,bass cabs as well (but lacking in the "beef") and everything sounds clearer. SM57 is excellent for snaredrums/kick attacks/bass cabs/screaming,growling vocals. but the rest kinda stands on the "muffled" side in my opinion.

2) http://www.citymusic.com.sg/webshaper/store/viewProd.asp?pkProductItem=605
Zoom Q3HD and a good light source. if you got an iphone 4 + your audio recording setup works too, then just step over to www.videohelp.com to find freewares that that sync your audio to your video.

apart from your questions here's my starter tip :

1) don't procrastinate. make time, save money, and start doing. decisive is key attitude to recording/mixing. believe in your own instinct and ears over someone else's (unless that someone else's ears are better represented to most consumer hearing)
2) http://soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php/194667-Guide-DIY-Recording-Under-50
3) http://soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php/38326-DIY-Recording-FAQ
4) read everything on soft under sound/computers to learn more, or just post and ask nicely. but remember if you're musician, just learn to record and write songs thats it. don't let audio engineering affect your creativity. the brain frequency is different I tell you. that's why most musicians are not IT inclined (and vice versa).
5) gain mixing experience here :
http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php/194684-Mix-This-Zoom-H2-(Layer-Recording)

http://soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php/194687-Mix-This-Zoom-R16-Wharfedale-KMD-7-Live-Recording

http://soft.com.sg/forum/showthread...-Audio-Technica-AT2020-Layer-Recording-and-Pr

some of the links are broken or can be re-searched on soft because james (soft owner) has updated his forum causing some of the review links to be broken.

gd luck and have fun.
 
hi blueprint thanks for all the information
needed to know what i need before handling and planning to cope with whatever budget available
will look up and read up before i eventually buy the products!
hope to clarify many doubts along the way (i really hate familiarizing myself with all these 'puzzles' yet necessary to know jargons!)
 
Delirium90: you're welcome however the bad news is whatever "jargon" I've stated on the FAQ are simple layman terms it gets worse from here. Gd luck
 
yeah i saw a few others like balanced or unbalanced... TRS or TS... need to make sense of them or i'll sink along the way definitely...
 
anything you don't understand , just google 1st. TRS = Tip Ring Sleeve , TS = Tip Sleeve. also covered in the DIY Recording FAQ.

anyway regarding your PM (I don't entertain questions in private as I'm not a consultant. people should read and learn about it in public)

>the Q3HD product for video/audio record.. hmm i was wondering if u had recorded instruments such as guitar before with the product and was the recorded sound quality satisfactory? (product info provided on website: high-quality sound with resolution of up to 24-bit/96 kHz can also be recorded. In addition to being able to switch between “Low” and “High” gain levels, the “Auto” setting allows for automatic level adjustments.)

I use the Q3HD (and formerly Zoom H2) for www.gigvideos.com the quality is good for its price and it has good reviews everywhere. sometimes you can use the search function of www.soft.com.sg and these will pop up :

http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php/219936-Zoom-Q3HD-vs-H4n-vs-H2n/page2
http://www.soft.com.sg/forum/showthread.php/196521-What-cams-are-good-for-gig-videography

although really, 16bit 44.1khz will do. anymore than that is just extra cpu + extra hdd space for quality that's insignificant difference.

>is it possible to save on the mic and use Q3HD to output the audio to an AI rather than the conventional XLR o/p from mic and i/p to an AI? or is it impossible to even setup such a chain since the Q3HD only has a standard o/p jack and a dc5v o/p jack (no idea wads this for anyway)?

you can set the Q3HD to just record .wav but it is not an audio interface. then import the .wav into your DAW.
the dc5v is the power adaptor jack to power up without batteries. and the standard output jack is the 1/8 (earphone stereo jack) line out/in

you can go down to citymusic to try out their staff is friendly and helpful.
 
For balance or unbalanced, someone will say just theory. You will be bless with this balance connection knowledge if you need to work your own audio gear with other professional gear that transmit lot of noise.
 
delirium90:

heyya bro, haven't seen you mention your budget so i'll just take a stab in the dark.

for your application of doing polished youtube videos, it'll be better to separate your video and audio capturing devices.

getting a H4n and a basic powerful DAW like reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/) should be a good start. the H4n has a built in stereo condenser and can back up as an audio interface with 2 inputs if you want to expand in the future.

only complain about it is the ever slightly higher noise floor as compared to other specialised AI products from presonus and m-audio. not a deal breaker if you generate silence during silent parts of the song.

reason to separate audio and video capturing devices is because, usually, the best angle to record yourself doesn't coincide with the best place to position the mic. realised this from past experience with some gig videography.

the h4n should meet your requirements. recording quality with stock stereo condenser mics are good. you can check out some of the more recent videos on my channel for reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lppHU_518C8&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tMsXQCIaX4&hd=1

here's one with Q3HD audio, which is good too, but the video quality is not half as good as my panasonic compact in low lighting scenes, so i took the audio from there and merged it with the video from my compact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhgGLI_t29k&hd=1

a video of a dude recording with stereo mics as well as an input from this acoustic guitar for quiter acoustic sets. also shows why video and audio capturing devices should be separate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7MWDYk_3io&hd=1
 
Last edited:
@blue:
okay does it mean i cant have it preamped since im going to directly output the recorded audio(track) from the q3hd to the DAW/processing?
thanks for highlighting how much of the audio quality would be sufficient ("16bit 44.1khz will do..etc") and all other info

@madwerewolf:
hi thanks for advice, I understand wad u mean. but would it be unrecommended for me to record the video with the for instance q3hd and then followed by recording the audio and finally merging them together with some video/audio merging/editting software(although i have no experience/knowledge on this)? i mean this is if i want to lower my budget and forcefully record video + audio with the same device.. would it be advisable?
 
using the q3hd for both is fine i guess, but unlike the h4n, the q3hd does not have two xlr and 1/4" inputs and cannot backup as an audio interface. and it's video quality, although 1080p, is not very good due to the small sensor size. most newer smart phones like the samsung SII or htc X record video at a better image quailty than the q3hd.

for convenience, the q3hd is an acceptable compromise, but i'm guessing you will outgrow it pretty quick due to the limited options if you're really into recording and doing audio edits. not much expandability there if you decide you want to get new condensers, or plug in your keyboard / acoustic guitar via 1/4"
 
delirium90 : there's already "preamp" on the Zoom Q3HD's mics. the only thing is you can't record directly from your DAW. you have to record on the q3hd itself first. then import via SD.

let me just divide it clearly for you.

[Video]
1) if you have an iphone 4 and willing to edit the video separately later. Use it.
2) if you have a DSLR (e.g canon 60D) that supports HD or going to get one soon and willing to edit video separately (take note DSLR has a limit of 12min+ per video or reach 4gb FAT32 file limit on SD). ditch the idea for Q3HD.
3) if you want convenience audio/video in one Q3HD. No editing.but not bad = not great.

[Audio]
1) Q3HD onboard mics.
2) if for portability, Zoom H4n (both on-the-go+audio interface)/H1 (on the go only)
3) a proper audio interface, xlr cables / mics. etc.

an alternative i don't recommend because it's quite a dead end is, if you get Q3HD for video/audio and you want your recordings to be "control" from the way you angle your video as compared to audio. is to get a cheap submixer like behringer/wharfedale etc.so it'll look like this

Q3HD on a tripod.
mic+micstand>xlr>small mixer > outputs to 1/8 TRS/stereo > Q3HD's line input.
that way you can line in a keyboard or a condensor mic.

but expandability is wasted once you get an audio interface and the mixer somewhat belongs to the trash.

really depends on your budget and how high you aim to achieve.
 
for some reason I can't edit my post hmm.
"the only thing is you can't record directly from your DAW. you have to record on the q3hd itself first. then import via SD."

actually you can. but it'll be Q3HD > line out > line into your onboard laptop/pc/mac soundcard which will be noisy and undesirable.
 
hey thanks for all the info again blue(especially the discount and the interesting vocalsmix track)
btw i will most probably be planning (i dont rly know HOW to do the whole thing yet) to be starting with recording guitar/guitarplaying for the audio/video then merging the audio/video tgt by editting (making the video/audio in sync and the original track to be played.. etc)..

actually im quite confused about what i can do with the equipment since ive never meddled with them before..
so if my intention is like the above mentioned, putting the connection/setup details aside:
1) other than the primary function of providing a gd preamp to your recorded track from your mic/recorder, do u do the "providing of the backing track (other than the guitar if im the one covering it)" in the AI or that is something that is supposed to be done under the DAW?
2) all audio recording is done on the AI right?
3) only audio editting is done on the DAW?
4) i only start to merge audio w the video after mixing right?

hope these questions are not too shallow because i still cant really picture what i can do with what i could have even if i were to eventually setup these equipment (which im unclear of the connection and stuff still.. i.e. if i were to even "actually you can. but it'll be Q3HD > line out > line into your onboard laptop/pc/mac soundcard which will be noisy and undesirable.", do i need a converter for the 1/8"stereojack lineOUT (Q3HD) to lineIN lappy/pc/mac soundcard?

sorry for the long post btw, and thanks for all the valuable info once again!
 
haha ok good questions there, mostly correct. normally for those really really polished videos on youtube, it's actually sort of like an MTV.

the very polished track you hear is actually multiple takes of snippets of audio recordings of verses, chorus etc. ie, they are all studio multitracked. for multitrack recording, usually you would only need one channel or at most two, for stereo recordings and multi mic placements like direct input from acoustic guitar and condenser infront of it. the only time you need more than that is when you're recording a full drumset.

after recording, mixing and mastering the track comes the video recording. they just play the audio out on some monitors, and act infront of the video as if they're doing it live. ie lip syncing. that is why you don't see they putting on headphones or having mics infront of them sometimes. and the times when there are, they are just for show to give the false impression that it was all done in 1 take. even the videos might be done with many many NGs. everytime they switch camera angles or stuff, there is a possibility that it was take 2, or 3, or even 100.

i would think most of the stuff are manually time aligned in the video editing software, with just one audio track in the timeline (the finished mastered track)

stock pc/mac soundcards are not desirable due to poor signal to noise ratings, so going the 1/8" adapter way is not recommended. external soundcards are usually better and by "Soundcards" we're talking about audio interfaces such as products offered by presonus, m-audio, certain digital mixers with USB connections, some multi effects units like line6 pod's, zoom's h4n etc. all these take over "soundcard" roles once you connect them via USB and install their respective drivers. they were designed with better SnR in mind so relatively silent parts of recordings will not be corrupted with noise as easily as laptop's stock soundcards.

technically speaking, you can buy a shure sm58, use the 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor, plug into the mic input of your laptop, fire up audacity and click record and stuff should work, but noisy la. recordings or raw signals should ideally be as noise free as possible.

hope that info helps! ;)
 
hey werewolfboy, its really useful stuff thank you very much. now i know u can just record something better than a normal smartphone recording anywhere conveniently too just tt i dont experience firsthand the noise level haha.

can i clarify with you further.. assuming i have a q3hd and an AI i wanna kickstart the recording. So i record the audio but this AI im looking at only has an XLR input.. and other stuff tt im not familiar with that goes like that:
ux1_specs.jpg

so my does my setup becomes something like guitar>q3hd>(send audiotrack to computer)>(before finally transmitting it to the AI for preamp/soundcard stuff to refine the signal of the recorded audio?)

and .. does this (see the square brackets) effectively mean that this AI comes with stuff that the linked up DAW could use? [[
POD (Farm 2.5 plug-in features every model necessary for pro-sounding tracks. Over 80 immortal and fully adjustable guitar amps, bass amps, preamps and more, from vintage classics to must-have modern monsters, are packed inside to deliver legendary POD® tone to your DAW.)]]

if so, setting the setup procedures aside first, all in all I will need the 1)eqpt(mic,AI..) ... 2) the correct i/o connectors or converters.. 3) the softwares (video/audio editting)... and 4) make sure my com is in a 'healthy' and optimal state to process all that..
 
good that you used the word "yet".

1) most recorders come with their own onboard preamps. no need to buy another. unless you want high quality signal, then you should get something that has a line input instead (no onboard preamps) at least echo audio / RME / or apogee ($1,2K+/-) if mac. then invest in a great preamp that costs above $1.5-3K. but if delirium90 means you're 22 this year i don't think that's easily granted unless your parents let you take a loan. the zoom equipment we've been talking about costs $400-$600 range all-in-one inclusive. i'm using Zoom R16 myself.

the backing track is up to you, if you do live take, no backing. if you do layered, you record guitars first, then you record vocals separately with your recorded guitars as a backing track.

2) unless you used zoom q3hd/h1 , you'll have to import the .wav from your sd card. or unless you used a minus one (karaoke) track from the internet.

3) editing/mixing can be done on the DAW. though some people with analog hardware mixers do the mixer before that which I don't recommend cos you don't have control from there on. record it raw, then one shot colour/blend/mix it together. systematic progressive.

4)
a) if you're doing live, everything should be live recorded. e.g. iphone film yourself, DAW starts recording, tick tick tick count in, and edit the video to sync with the audio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18XurAoxqgM <-- this is a good example i did a while back. first part is vidcam's audio, I tried to signal them the sound check is over but they were too engrossed in the headphone jamming so i thought what the heck just start recording.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvLJyh4lzoE <-- the sudden middle angle = iphone 4 as you can see me filmin.

b) create your master audio track first, then wayang kulit (act) lipsync/guitar strum sync to the audio. if you wanna cover up the off sync much, make sure you don't show the fretboard which you're playing that way just get your strum right + lipsync. instead of your fingers as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eGgnK16OuQ <-- although this is not "wayang" each layered take was videoed down example for the change of bass + guitar solo which had a lot of punch in takes and I was too tired from recording the whole day.(yes the micstands/mics/cables/laptop/audio interface is all portable and brought to the drummer's house.) but you can roughly imagine : properly record the track to metronome tight polished etc, then film an MTV "act" to the music. the only requirements is to play exactly same tempo/style.

so most videos are created audio first. because you can cut a video angle and have the song running but you can't cut an audio off easily unless to fit the video and only if certain circumstances allow.

5) the one I talked about Q3HD > line out > line into your onboard laptop/pc/mac soundcard is the same as "recording under $50 DIY" FAQ which I assume you haven't started reading otherwise you'd have a clear idea by now. what mwwboy mentioned on audio interface = soundcard is covered in my 5 year old outdated but still applicable DIY recording FAQ.
 
to answer your qn about the ux1 setup.

1) AI is not a "storage facility" which you send your .wavs to. please read the guides in my earlier post first.

2) Q3HD already has a "preamp" for the onboard microphones.

3) using line6pod comes with podfarm vst effects. these will be available for use in DAW. there're many types out there guitar rig / the free ones from kvraudio.com (the one i used in under $50 guide)

4) all in all you'll need to first read the links I've stated and understand the signal chain, what goes out, goes in to another, what goes in, goes out. first count your budget (you haven't stated). what you aim to achieve and at what quality. settle your pc/mac, settle your choice of DAW, then get your audio interface , cables, mics and headphones (I'm using ATHM30s $60-$70 at hungbros). before you settle on your videocam and video editing.

I don't recommend it but if you wanna use the Q3HD (assuming you want the portability, otherwise q3hd's video is about the same as iphone4 level only) with your UX1 it would look like this :
Q3HD mics > Q3HD preamp gain > line out 1/8" to RCA + RCAto1/4TS adaptor > Line6 UX1's rear Line inputs L and R > USB > DAW.

that's it. but rarely anyone does this I must say, because you're using something that costs $350++ for audio when you're probably better off getting a few mics ($100+each) and have better flexible miking techniques. but video will be another case.
another thing before I forget to mention , if i'm not wrong ux1 has no phantom power. what is phantom power? read the FAQ. heh.
 
Back
Top