how to improvise on bass?
- Thread starter bin4christ
- Start date
i think its time i posted this web site link here. For people who want to know more about music theory this is a good web link with somewat clear explanations http://jacmuse.com/cover/newpage5.htm just follow the links around. Remember that theory is nothing without application. try to apply what ever you learn asap into your playing but dont over do it.
Why american music theory you might ask. After teaching and studying music theory i find that american music theory will give you a better foundation inwhich to construct solos and move on to other forms of music. abrsm syllabus is to limiting at times in terms of improvisation. but abrsm is good if you wanna improve your sight reading and learn to read score well. another good book to check out is mark levins "the jazz theory book" very comprehensive with examples which range from easy to catch all the way to wtf is he talkin about. lol..
To learn to construct a good solo, i recommend you learn solos from other players first if your music theory is bad. Well the theory goes if it aint broke dont fix it but u can improve on it. so learning other solos will give you some sort of an idea what kinda licks you can play over this and that particular chord.
Another good way is to learn the melody of the song you are playing and improve on it. there are a few basic styles of soloing Call and response, Improving on the melody or just constructing a new melody. Call and response style of soloing is mostly used in blues, improving on melody you can hear it on most kenny G solos and construction of melody you can hear on most solos in many styles. I think that the infomation you want can be found on that link. For some great listening reference best listen to victor wooten's solos, but not the slap intensive ones those songs in which he just plays melody, VERY wicked phrasing.
That my 2 cents worth again. hope it helped.
Why american music theory you might ask. After teaching and studying music theory i find that american music theory will give you a better foundation inwhich to construct solos and move on to other forms of music. abrsm syllabus is to limiting at times in terms of improvisation. but abrsm is good if you wanna improve your sight reading and learn to read score well. another good book to check out is mark levins "the jazz theory book" very comprehensive with examples which range from easy to catch all the way to wtf is he talkin about. lol..
To learn to construct a good solo, i recommend you learn solos from other players first if your music theory is bad. Well the theory goes if it aint broke dont fix it but u can improve on it. so learning other solos will give you some sort of an idea what kinda licks you can play over this and that particular chord.
Another good way is to learn the melody of the song you are playing and improve on it. there are a few basic styles of soloing Call and response, Improving on the melody or just constructing a new melody. Call and response style of soloing is mostly used in blues, improving on melody you can hear it on most kenny G solos and construction of melody you can hear on most solos in many styles. I think that the infomation you want can be found on that link. For some great listening reference best listen to victor wooten's solos, but not the slap intensive ones those songs in which he just plays melody, VERY wicked phrasing.
That my 2 cents worth again. hope it helped.
rylche said:
Hmm how did you get a 'C'? Isn't fifth of E a 'B'? Or I count wrongly?
bin4christ: There are good bass solo books in the market. A wrong note played by a bass player is more obvious than guitar.
Some music are improvise but most are arranged. The composer will ask the bass player to play from the score.
How much you can solo depend how much vocabulary u have.
Hmm but for now you shd know your priority and dun let your parents worry for you. They may not understand you but you can try to understand why they are doing this to u.
Cheers,
Ben
http://learnbass.blogspot.com
a few things are wrong in the above post. hmm.. not mearnt to flame but just to correct. Most of the time bass players are just given chord charts to improvise unless your playin very specific compositions given by anal composers that want everything done their way or they want a particular lick at like 1.12 min of their song. haha another thing to add is tat how well u improvise isnt effected by how much vocabulary u have cause thats how new ideas are formed.
its like speaking english, new words are created everyday by people with limited vocabulary trying to find new ways to express yourself. sometimes havin to much vocab will limit your playing to the things tat u already know cause u think u know alot and u just dont wanna experiment and stick to the old licks and old patterns. The best advice tat i can give is to just get ur feet wet and jump in play your solo. Remember ur solo is like ur way of communicating with the audience what u want to say to them sometimes cannot be put into music theory or any shape or pattern. thats wat makes great improvisers like miles davis and john coltrane stand out.
hmm off hand i think it was coltrane that wanted to play a #4 in a major scale and everyone was against it they felt that it was destroying the "jazz" sound at that time who knows after a while people began to accept tat sound and your lydian over major7 chords was born, now its like common to play a lydian over maj7 chords in jazz music cause the 4 is an avoid note already.
if u really need help i recommend you find a bass teacher. jon sim is highly recommended so is bong at yamaha both of them are good players and good teachers.
its like speaking english, new words are created everyday by people with limited vocabulary trying to find new ways to express yourself. sometimes havin to much vocab will limit your playing to the things tat u already know cause u think u know alot and u just dont wanna experiment and stick to the old licks and old patterns. The best advice tat i can give is to just get ur feet wet and jump in play your solo. Remember ur solo is like ur way of communicating with the audience what u want to say to them sometimes cannot be put into music theory or any shape or pattern. thats wat makes great improvisers like miles davis and john coltrane stand out.
hmm off hand i think it was coltrane that wanted to play a #4 in a major scale and everyone was against it they felt that it was destroying the "jazz" sound at that time who knows after a while people began to accept tat sound and your lydian over major7 chords was born, now its like common to play a lydian over maj7 chords in jazz music cause the 4 is an avoid note already.
if u really need help i recommend you find a bass teacher. jon sim is highly recommended so is bong at yamaha both of them are good players and good teachers.
rottenramone
Active member
..
interesting analogy there.
i find it difficult to play what my head is singing at the moment.. maybe its time i picked up a dictionary.
interesting analogy there.
i find it difficult to play what my head is singing at the moment.. maybe its time i picked up a dictionary.
bassics said:
Haha maybe just to querify what I meant.
When I mentioned most bass players played according to the composers requirement that is part of the arrangement and definitely there are room to improvise like you mentioned with the chord charts ( I dun thk laboriel's thumping was written out by tom brooks but that was part of the whole understanding). Ihere are also time when a specific time is for solo and you can play with what they have written or improvise (depend on the grp and type of music right
)The vocabulary part is if you are able to speak more, you will have a greater ability to allow your ideas to flow more smoothly too. If you don't know your ABC, it is difficult to spell.
Of cos there are illiterate pple who can speak but can't read or write. It all depends.
I agree to look for bass teachers like bong. Very experienced. But there are also good and more affordable teachers out there. check out luther's website for this guy called thomas.
Cheers,
Ben
http://learnbass.blogspot.com
3notesAbar
New member
Or maybe what everybody needs is to just practice more often.
hey ho.....let`s go!!!!!!!!!!
true..i agree with 3Notesabar.....
practice more n really know ur basics..n i really really really mean ur basics...
coz i dun see y u must scale thruout the whole song...when u dun even have the most important basic....FINGERTONE!
...just my opinion...... :lol:
true..i agree with 3Notesabar.....
practice more n really know ur basics..n i really really really mean ur basics...
coz i dun see y u must scale thruout the whole song...when u dun even have the most important basic....FINGERTONE!
...just my opinion...... :lol:
3notesAbar
New member
I been thinking about somethings lately. I recently decided to take a break from teaching for a while. A partial rant: students don't practice, or don't practice the right things!!!!
Ok this is what i have to say to those seeking to further their low-end ambitions:
Your tone - Like what FATCAT (meow) mentioned: the most basic thing - Sounding good. I really don't think playing an awesome scale with a god-awful sound will help in any way. While you (the beginning player) dunno how to navigate your fingerboard, wouldn't it be sensible to try sounding good plucking a couple of notes first?
Your knowledge vs your experience - Haiz this is one tough scale to balance. As a starting bass player, I confess that i dived straight into songs instead of 1) taking lessons, 2) buying a tuner, 3) asking around for feedback like some of the guys on Soft. I also went straight into a band after maybe weeks of playing (but i played drums and geetar retardedly for a year or so). Reason why i didn't get kicked out of bands was probably cos i had OK hearing. My point: If i learned all the stuff i did on the net + readings, but had nowhere to apply it full-force, I don't think it would have mattered that i bothered to learn. It still kinda sucks that I have Basic Theory but never went to take my TP.
Breaking boundaries (your own) - Ok. Don't fall asleep, we're getting there. Thing is, when one whores bands, or whore genres of music for the heck of it (as a bassplayer!). I think it'll help us more than guitarists. I won't say why, You'll just have to believe me heh. This isn't asking anyone to think out of the proverbial box, but to make your box BIGGER. The more missles you have, the better equipped one will be to learn new things. Can we smell improvisation now?
Ok, some may ask: Why can't i go to bass classes first, then seek out bands and then improve the crap out of my musical-self? My answer - You can. But some people might find it harder. One just has to find the best way about the journey. I can only say that the way i walked so far, has brought me lots of joy. So much that the 'pain' of learning theory has become negligible. In fact, I personally hunger for knowledge now more than ever, and I also want to play as much as i can with bands and musicians.
To just sum up on 'improvising': I believe strongly (duh) that theres no shortcuts, no tricks. Try anything funny and most people will see though you. Play 'dead scales which sound right but without a 'message' or conviction, and you'll be boring. When one knows what to say in a bassline, or even a bass solo. It'll just sound POWERFUL/COMPELLING, be it 2 different notes or all 12.
Ok this is what i have to say to those seeking to further their low-end ambitions:
Your tone - Like what FATCAT (meow) mentioned: the most basic thing - Sounding good. I really don't think playing an awesome scale with a god-awful sound will help in any way. While you (the beginning player) dunno how to navigate your fingerboard, wouldn't it be sensible to try sounding good plucking a couple of notes first?
Your knowledge vs your experience - Haiz this is one tough scale to balance. As a starting bass player, I confess that i dived straight into songs instead of 1) taking lessons, 2) buying a tuner, 3) asking around for feedback like some of the guys on Soft. I also went straight into a band after maybe weeks of playing (but i played drums and geetar retardedly for a year or so). Reason why i didn't get kicked out of bands was probably cos i had OK hearing. My point: If i learned all the stuff i did on the net + readings, but had nowhere to apply it full-force, I don't think it would have mattered that i bothered to learn. It still kinda sucks that I have Basic Theory but never went to take my TP.
Breaking boundaries (your own) - Ok. Don't fall asleep, we're getting there. Thing is, when one whores bands, or whore genres of music for the heck of it (as a bassplayer!). I think it'll help us more than guitarists. I won't say why, You'll just have to believe me heh. This isn't asking anyone to think out of the proverbial box, but to make your box BIGGER. The more missles you have, the better equipped one will be to learn new things. Can we smell improvisation now?
Ok, some may ask: Why can't i go to bass classes first, then seek out bands and then improve the crap out of my musical-self? My answer - You can. But some people might find it harder. One just has to find the best way about the journey. I can only say that the way i walked so far, has brought me lots of joy. So much that the 'pain' of learning theory has become negligible. In fact, I personally hunger for knowledge now more than ever, and I also want to play as much as i can with bands and musicians.
To just sum up on 'improvising': I believe strongly (duh) that theres no shortcuts, no tricks. Try anything funny and most people will see though you. Play 'dead scales which sound right but without a 'message' or conviction, and you'll be boring. When one knows what to say in a bassline, or even a bass solo. It'll just sound POWERFUL/COMPELLING, be it 2 different notes or all 12.
3notesAbar
New member
Oh yeah before i forget and go to bed... Dont forget to listen to your bandmates (what they are playing). This is of paramount importance because, as much as we hate it sometimes, support instruments like the bass DO rely on the other instruments to sound good as well la!
Happy trails! I'm gone!
Happy trails! I'm gone!
half-grown-idiot
New member
inspiring 3notes ! breaking boundaries. thats what music is about and in your own way as an indiduval musician. well, most people are satisfy with what they know. great musicians are ones who always challenge themselves !
hmmm..
hmmm..