How to connect keyboard, sound-module and sampler?? Pls help

[sj2six]

Hi people.

I've got 3 questions here hope someone can help enlighten me pls. Thank you.

First question, I'm rather confuse here about the connections of MIDI gears. Let say if I've got a MIDI controller keyboard with MIDI in and out, and a Akai S5000 sampler, and a hardware sound module, how to I inter-link all of them together with my comp and DAWs so that they work with each other.
What I mean here is that, if I want to trigger the sound module and sampler using the keyboard to produce sound, they must be linked using MIDI I/O am I right? But my keyboard only got one set of MIDI I/O, how to connect it to both the sound module and sampler at the same time? And how to connect all of them up into my comp and DAWs when my sound card has only one set of MIDI I/O too? Does it mean that I need to buy a multi MIDI I/O port like the Unitor-8?

Second question, what if I've two MIDI keyboard, and I want to play both at one go, maybe one with left hand playing accompaniment, and right hand playing the main melody, BUT BUT BUT, both keyboard are playing different instrument sound. Maybe first keyboard with piano sound, and second keyboard with strings sound. Remember, both playing at one go, and playing different parts with different sound. Can that be done? How can that be done? Does it mean I would need more than one sound module? Does it mean I got to get two sound card so that I've got two set of MIDI I/O in order to connect into my comp and sequencer? And how does the connection between all these required gears goes?

Third question, I've heard quite a number of sound card and sound module producing General MIDI sound. They all sound damn awful, esp. the piano sound. So my question here is that, is General MIDI just a kind of standard to which every number represent different instrument, eg. 001 = acoustic piano, etc. Is it just a standard to organise and place different instruments to their respective number? In another word, it is true that all sound module which support General MIDI, all sound differently? The more expensive ones will produce better quality instrument sounds than the cheaper one?? or is it as long as its General MIDI, all sound the same??

 

[soft]

sj2six

you questions all require long explaning. i try to have a go at it.

1.
Keyboard OUT -> Computer IN
Computer OUT - > AKAI IN
AKAI THRU -> Sound Module IN
Sound Module THRU - Keyboard IN

In this setup (if it works), you will still have only 16 midi channels. If you get a midi junction box, you will be able to use 16 x 3 midi channels.

2. this will depend on the keyboard and sound module you have. some sound module have 2 INs. this would make it easier.

3. General MIDI is just a specs for a standard patch list + some common midi control. the quality of the sound is dependant on quality of the sound module.

 

[lowjk]

>> Let say if I've got a MIDI controller keyboard with MIDI in and out, and a Akai S5000 sampler, and a hardware sound module, how to I inter-link all of them together with my comp and DAWs so that they work with each other.

If it's for a DAW station, it is advisable to a use a multiple in/out midi interface. With your current setup a simple 4in/4out or 5in/5out interface would suffice eg Midisport 4x4, Edirol UM-550.


>> What I mean here is that, if I want to trigger the sound module and sampler using the keyboard to produce sound, they must be linked using MIDI I/O am I right?

Yes, but if you are playing live and NOT using a DAW, a quick and dirty way of connecting them would be to:
Keyboard MIDI out -> AKAI MIDI IN
AKAI MIDI THRU -> Module MIDI IN

If you set all to the same channel, they would play together.

>>But my keyboard only got one set of MIDI I/O, how to connect it to both the sound module and sampler at the same time? And how to connect all of them up into my comp and DAWs when my sound card has only one set of MIDI I/O too?

See above.

>> Does it mean that I need to buy a multi MIDI I/O port like the Unitor-8?
If you want to use them to record to a DAW, an interface is preferable.

 

[lowjk]

>> Second question, what if I've two MIDI keyboard, and I want to play both at one go, maybe one with left hand playing accompaniment, and right hand playing the main melody, BUT BUT BUT, both keyboard are playing different instrument sound. Maybe first keyboard with piano sound, and second keyboard with strings sound. Remember, both playing at one go, and playing different parts with different sound. Can that be done? How can that be done?

Just select the desired sounds on the keyboards and play. Waht's so difficult?

>> Does it mean I would need more than one sound module?

No. You already have the 2 kayboards.

>> Does it mean I got to get two sound card so that I've got two set of MIDI I/O in order to connect into my comp and sequencer?

No you could get an multi in/ou MIDI interface.
As for sounds, you just need a mixer.

>> And how does the connection between all these required gears goes?
MIDI data -> MIDI interface -> Comp
Audio data -> MIXER -> soundcard

 

[lowjk]

>> Third question, I've heard quite a number of sound card and sound module producing General MIDI sound. They all sound damn awful, esp. the piano sound. So my question here is that, is General MIDI just a kind of standard to which every number represent different instrument, eg. 001 = acoustic piano, etc. Is it just a standard to organise and place different instruments to their respective number?

Yes, it's a standard to cater to the home market so that every single keyboard will play a grand piano when set to Preset 1.
This allows MIDI files to be exchanged between songwriters so that the same instruments are played back no matter what GM module or keyboard you use.

>> In another word, it is true that all sound module which support General MIDI, all sound differently? The more expensive ones will produce better quality instrument sounds than the cheaper one??

Of course, a Triton playing back a grand piano patch will sound very different from a $30 soundcard playing back its grand piano patch.

>> or is it as long as its General MIDI, all sound the same??

No.

There is also an extended GM set now. Gives variation to each sound.

 

[digihub]

very blurrrrr...

 

[Indigo_blues]

regarding q2,

to control 1 tone module with 2 keyboards via MIDI, it can be done by connecting "MIDI out" from keyboard 1 to "MIDI in" of keyboard 2, then "MIDI thru" of keyboard 2 to "MIDI in" of the tone module. Make sure however keyboard 2's "MIDI thru" settings are turned on. Then set keyboard 1's MIDI transmit channel to 1, keyboard 2's MIDI transmit channel to 2, then set the tone module to accept multiple midi inputs. Set the desired sounds to channel 1 and channel 2 of the tone module.

Pretty complicated. Simpler way is just use the 2 keyboard's sounds or use 1 keyboard's own sounds and the 2nd to control the tone module.

 

[Cheez]

sj2six, I think you are confusing playing live with recording using a DAW. Both will end up with different connections - both of which others have already said above.

In a live situation on a keyboard limited to only 1 midi out/in, you'll have to link using midi thru from the other external modules you have (as already discussed by others above). Of course, for most ease of use and maximal control, you'll want a midi controller with multiple midi ins and outs - that will give you better control over your outboard gears. If that's what you want, consider getting a master keyboard controller with multiple midi ins and outs.

In a DAW situation, things are very different. You want your PC to be the master controller, not the keyboard. So as lowjk said, the ideal is to get a multiple midi in/out interface. You can still link it using midi thru suggested by James. My suggestion is to get a 4x4 midi interface - solves all your problems.

 

[lowjk]

Just to add a little to the confusion
If you want to use your MIDI interface for both LIVE and DAW applications,
it is preferrable to get one that can function AWAY from a computer if you are NOT using a computer in a live sitaution (example Edirol UM-550).

 

[sj2six]

Thank you very much everyone, thank you. Appreciated.

Just want to clarify here that i'm talking strictly on studio music creation/arranging with application like Cubase SX. Not talking about live stage performances. Sorry to confuse some of you.
So if i'm recording the MIDI messages into a sequencer like Cubase SX, where keyboard 1 into cubase track 1, and keyboard 2 into cubase track 2, but i'm playing both keyboard at one go, I need to get a multi-MIDI port am I right?

And what if I want to capture or record the triggered sound (not the MIDI message) from the sound module into Protools, where keyboard 1 into audio track 1 and keyboard 2 into audio track 2, but again both keyboard are playing together at one go, how can that be done?
coz the sound module only got 1 set of audio outputs rite, then if both keyboard are patched to that 1 module, the audio ouput of the module will output one track of stereo audio with the mixture of both keyboard sound, hence, it can only be recorded to one mixed track in the DAW, and not two seperate track, am I right? If that's the case, does it mean I need to get 2 module in order to achieve that?

 

[Cheez]

If all you're concerned about is DAW applications, things are vastly different.

First of all, there's no need to play 2 keyboards at one go since you can record one track at a time. You don't even need 2 keyboards if all you want is to trigger midi messages.

If you want to record the sound from both keyboards, you can do that with what you already have, albeit slightly troublesome. First, you should decide which keyboard you want as the midi trigger - keep it as that (that keyboard should be your master keyboard). If you don't want the hassle of daisy chaining midi cables, get a 4x4 midi interface. Then from the midi interface, midi out goes to all your outboard gears including your keyboard 2 which is now really a sound module instead of a keyboard in the strictest sense (since keyboard 1 is now the trigger). You assign each outboard gear to individual midi tracks and you sequence track by track, layer by layer. Of course, if you want to play 2 keyboard at the same time, you still can; but unless you want to record something that show your keyboard prowess, there's no need to do that.

After sequencing is all done, you play back everything and record all in one go. In your case, you may have to record one outboard gear at a time into individual audio tracks since your soundcard has limited audio inputs. That's where the trouble comes in - you need to record keyboard 1, disconnect the audio, plug in keyboard 2, record, unplug, plug in sampler, etc until all tracks are recorded. The easier way is to get a mixer or a soundcard with multiple audio in/outs.

 

[Jey Hong]

Thanks guys,you've answered my questions as well!!

Hi all,I'm new to this site & not very midi savvy. so I just look around for help, Thanks to all who contributed to this question!!! SOFT members RULE.