how do you describe ZBT cymbals?

[paper_box]

i own for myself a set of Zildjian ZBTs, i dont know if im right to say the sound is 'off' from what i hear from the music im listening to (rock and indie stuff).

what im hearing from the music which is the sound i wanna get is like something light, washy? splashy? high pitched? or what you call it...bright? i dont really understand the terms. but i wanna hear that kinda sounds from cymbals. something like the sounds from weezer and greenday perhaps, what kinda cymbals do these bands use?

the ZBT sounds heavy with a low tone, boring sound, anyones got any comments on the ZBTs? like what are they made for actually, or what do you guys use them for?

dont think plastic drumstick heads might get a better sound though.

wondering what you guys think. but somehow i dont see myself spending like more than half a grand to get those high end cymbals.

im such a noob.

 

[kari_convention]

my opinion?

ZBT sucks. B8 is far more better than ZBT.

 

[marcdadrummer]

everyone differs with their opinions lah... but i dunno if this's official but i heard that zbt's are so called Hardened trashlids or don't even come close as a cymbal... haha.. that's how bad they are..!

but if it's just for home practise shouldn't be a prob

 

[weckl-x]

CymbalTalk
http://www.sabian.com/english/educator/pdf/cymbal_facts/english.pdf

ATTACK (Initial Sound) – The amount of time it takes for a cymbal to respond. Small, thin cymbals have a fast attack whereas larger, thicker cymbals have a slower attack.

BRIGHT (Highs) – When a cymbal possesses a large percentage of high partials. Thick and/or heavy cymbals are usually bright.

CUT – When a cymbal can be clearly heard through an ensemble. Brighter cymbals and/or cymbals that produce more volume allow for the most penetrating sounds

DARK (Lows)– When a cymbal possesses a large percentage of low partials. Thin and/or light cymbals are usually dark.

DRY – When a cymbal does not develop a prevalent sustaining sound while being played with a drumstick. This helps for a greater rhythmic definition or clarity.

FAST – When a cymbal responds quickly and has a short sustain.

FUNDAMENTAL – The dominant pitch of any cymbal. Although all cymbals produce a fundamental tone, cymbals whose partials are more prominent than the fundamental are most desirable because they will not interfere with a tonality of a piece of music. Instead they will blend with all pieces.

GLASSY - Clear, shimmering response. Often clean and smooth - like glass.

HOT - A fiery mix of dark, warm sounds with the added heat of agitated tones - a 'burning' sound.

PARTIALS–Overtones or a series of pitches that are produced in addition to the fundamental. Every cymbal will have a different percentage of highs, lows and mid-range partials.

SUSTAIN– The length of time it takes for a cymbal to stop vibrating. The duration of sound a cymbal produces.

TIMBRE – The general sound characteristics of a cymbal.

TRASHY– A raw and biting response, as in the initial sound of a Chinese cymbal.

WARM – When a cymbal blends with an ensemble. This contrasts with cut.
Cymbals that are dark and/or possess mostly mid-range partials are generally thought of as warm.

 

[weckl-x]

Btw, Tré Cool's (Green Day) setup:

• Zildjian K/Z 14" Special Hi-hat (K Hi-hat on top, Z Custom Dyno Beat on the bottom)
  Zildjian K 19" Dark Medium Thin Crash
  Zildjian A 19" Medium Thin Crash
  Zildjian A 22" Ping Ride
  Zildjian K 20" Crash/Ride (centre right)
  Zildjian FX 20" Oriental Classic China

 

[paper_box]

super informative!
very appreciative!

=)

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

I would say ZBT are Entry-Level Cymbals, affordable to Prospective or New Drummers taking up Drumming at the beginning, when they have to spend quite a sum of money on gears & such....

Over the longer run .... drummers tends to change and upgrade to better sounding cymbals.

Honestly I don't think ZBT sound good ... this goes also for Sabian B8 and Paiste PST Series too...Entry-Level Cymbals are Entry-Level Cymbals no matter what brands they are.

Who would says Manufacturer's Brand Cymbals ... Sabian Artisan, Zildjian K Constantinople or Paiste New Signature doesn't sound good ...No...they all sound great...just different in their own way..that's about it.

 

[paper_box]

im wondering if there were like anyway we can modify our entry level cymbals to sound different or something similar to higher end cymbals?

if it were possible here in spore, i sure wouldnt mind giving it a go!

cause i too agree ZBT dont sound really good, they sound to low and heavyyyyyy

 

[marcdadrummer]

there's another thread which someone mentioned artisans who works alone, makes wonders with all kind of cymbal... there are many out there, and they are all not from singapore...

there's a link to that post i guess from weckl... and also pics and sound clips too...

even zbt's can sound as nice! my guess is he re-melts the metal, and starts the process all over again.

ask bro weckl lah, he's very very informative

 

[paper_box]

woooah, if he re-melts it, perhaps they should just make their own!

im thinking like we can hammer or drill holes or add stuff on the cymbals instead.

 

[weckl-x]

Hey guys, you can check out the articles here:
http://www.cymbalholic.com/articles/

Actually, artisans like Johan VDS modify cymbals mainly by re-lathing and re-hammering. It's not worth the effort to melt it down, that's a capability that only the factories have.

http://johancymbals.fr.nf/

Others like Steve Hubback or Michael Paiste forge their own cymbals, mainly from stainless steel. There aren't any independent makers casting their own B20 yet. There are a lot of variables involved in the process. Read the articles and you'll learn a lot :wink:

http://jvds.byethost15.com/3_BEFORE...XT_20_ride_before_and_after_into_Jazzride.mp3

These used to be Sabian B8 14" hi hats

http://jvds.byethost15.com/3_BEFORE..._set/Sabian_14_B8_Hihats_before_and_after.mp3

 

[paper_box]

interesting, wonder if they're like any tutorials to go with it, hahaha!

it sounds very different after modding it man, though it sounds pretty rough

 

[elevenine]

May I suggest checking out Saluda Cymbals. I've been using their cymbals for more than 6 months now. Jamie (the owner) will walk you through the process of customizing any or all your cymbals (via email) and help you create the sound you want.

He uses B20, so the above post about no independent makers using B20 isn't entirely correct. Although yes, he probably runs a larger operation than most "indies".

 

[weckl-x]

Yeah, I guess I consider indies to be one-man operations. Saluda's actually a company in my mind. IIRC, most of their stuff is still cast in china and refinished in their US factory.

One more thing, Don Roberto, the artisan who produces Spizzichino cymbals, gets his b20 cymbal blanks from Turkey. From what I've read, for indie operations, it's more convenient and cost effective that way.

Cool, elevenine, I didn't expect there would be anyone here in SG using Saludas, care to share more about your pies? Would be great to hear more, I think they're a good alternative to be aware about.

 

[kari_convention]

Stagg Cymbals... good sounding and very much affordable. They're selling like hot cakes here in KL.

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Yesterday I saw an article at DrummerWorld regarding a drummer who regret buying Saluda.(can check it out).

As regards to Hammering Cymbals (Johan)..I've written to him actually to hammer some cymbals.....Yes he can make your cymbals sound much better through hammering....but he is based in Belgium...and I calculated the cost (based on prices he quoted me) ...it's expensive lah. To hammer a B8 (that I've to sent my cymbals here in Singapore to Belgium and back to me) cost me S$ about 450.00...so I better buy a good cymbal...it's more economical this way.

 

[elevenine]

If that guy who bought the Saludas lives in the States, then I don't see why he didn't send the cymbal back to get it refinished by Jamie, he'll do it free of charge for all his customers.

I was kinda lucky to get a set that I quite liked, the only cymbal I sold off was the 16" Mist X crash, and my favourite is the 19" Mist X crash..it's a monster!

Anyway at prices of less than US$100 per crash, it's very reasonable.

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

You got Saluda har?...Can let me try try and hear the sound one of these days...I have not smell one before lah... :lol:

 

[drum_hobbyist]

Haha... I was the one who bought the Saluda Mist 16" Crash... one word... POWER... 8)

 

[drum_hobbyist]

KC... you have Stagg cymbals? Bring a set down for 17 Mar gathering... :wink: