seekz
New member
Basically i'm self taught. Need pointers.
Did a free recording for RustyNails back at my studio.
http://www.seekz.net/shutup.mp3
Did a free recording for RustyNails back at my studio.
http://www.seekz.net/shutup.mp3
How do i fare as a sound engineer?
- Thread starter seekz
- Start date
Hey there dude. I'm listening to the mix. The one thing that really sticks out is that their timing is a bit off. The phaser on the guitar is also a bit over the board especially in instances when he lets the notes ring out. I'd try to put the guitars a bit further in the mix, and possibly comp a track with a little less phaser on the rhythm and the octaved riffs. Occassionally the bass at the end swallows up the kick. It's probably because of the compression and eq there. If you're going to do that it'll be better to try sidechaining the kick into the bass compressor to duck down the bass attack, or just lower the bass volume. As it is it's just a little too muddy. One thing i like is the vocals which are nicely recorded and clear, but a little too upfront. BTW i'm not into chinese rock, the only ones i can remember are old beyond songs that i've heard long ago, so it maybe that this genre's songs are meant to have really upfront vocals. i'm listening to this from the m83, smashing pumpkins, mew, mars volta kind of direction.
seekz
New member
Yeah, the drummer ain't that steady to begin with...
make until the whole band have to slow down and speed up at certain parts to compensate for his inconsistency. But "shrugs" what can i do?
Yeah, i just did a basic mix and had to book in back to camp right after i recorded them. i think the phaser part really fits in, maybe it just needs alil automation to soften it down at certain parts.
Yeah i agree with you on the kick thing. Will try EQ before i do anything funny.
However, i dont understand what you mean by "upfront". Does it mean its too loud and sticks out like a sore thumb or something? No, i'm not trying to challenge you, just wana know why you tihnk this way, so i can improve on the mix.
On the muddiness, i dont really understand the reason behind it, since the vocals sound crisply clear, so i can rule out the MP3 compression as the source of muddiness. However I feel that its the tone of the guitar that causes it. The intro riff sounds damn muddy. I was thinking of asking the guitarist to re-record it with a different tone, but that's for another weekend.
make until the whole band have to slow down and speed up at certain parts to compensate for his inconsistency. But "shrugs" what can i do?
Yeah, i just did a basic mix and had to book in back to camp right after i recorded them. i think the phaser part really fits in, maybe it just needs alil automation to soften it down at certain parts.
Yeah i agree with you on the kick thing. Will try EQ before i do anything funny.
However, i dont understand what you mean by "upfront". Does it mean its too loud and sticks out like a sore thumb or something? No, i'm not trying to challenge you, just wana know why you tihnk this way, so i can improve on the mix.
On the muddiness, i dont really understand the reason behind it, since the vocals sound crisply clear, so i can rule out the MP3 compression as the source of muddiness. However I feel that its the tone of the guitar that causes it. The intro riff sounds damn muddy. I was thinking of asking the guitarist to re-record it with a different tone, but that's for another weekend.
Hey no problem. The muddiness comes from the phaser on the guitar, and the bass frequencies. If you cut the eq on the lower end to mids of the guitar and try to brighten them up, it'll clear that area better. Same with the bass, but then it might interfere with the vocals. From here it sounds like the guitars aren't being recorded too nicely. There's not a lot of clarity in the sound and I don't think an overall volume drop on the guitars are going to work as well as better eqing and a compressor. If i was recording the guitarist, i'd try to get him to use a little less phaser and just let the amp do the distortion, or record a dry input and effect it later.
Upfront means it's too much in the foreground. Everything should be together and not jump out too much. But this is dependent on genre, so if you like what you're hearing you should just go with it. For me i'm not used to vocals like these so i'd trim them down.
Anyhow just to help you out. Here's a mix with just eq and some compression applied. The mids are lightly scooped and the highs are raised slightly.
http://s31.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2HJA12NYTDYSH0JCOZ5M6YTQXZ
I don't quite like the mix because it's a bit too trebly, and not enough kick. But it demonstrates some of what i'm talking about.
Should check this out too
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/inspector/download/index.html
it's a free analyzer. It's doesn't give you a full spectral analysis, but it's got rms, peak levels and alarms. Best of all it isn't too cpu intensive.
Upfront means it's too much in the foreground. Everything should be together and not jump out too much. But this is dependent on genre, so if you like what you're hearing you should just go with it. For me i'm not used to vocals like these so i'd trim them down.
Anyhow just to help you out. Here's a mix with just eq and some compression applied. The mids are lightly scooped and the highs are raised slightly.
http://s31.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2HJA12NYTDYSH0JCOZ5M6YTQXZ
I don't quite like the mix because it's a bit too trebly, and not enough kick. But it demonstrates some of what i'm talking about.
Should check this out too
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/inspector/download/index.html
it's a free analyzer. It's doesn't give you a full spectral analysis, but it's got rms, peak levels and alarms. Best of all it isn't too cpu intensive.
seekz
New member
Okie i used my ears... I think...... hehehe...
Kinda salvaged the kick... and did a lil bit of automation.
brought back the vocals by a lil tad.
Need you use your ears again and provide with a lil feedback, vegan if you dont mind. By the way, what do you work as dude? Can i like understudy you or something?
I'm not sure if i've removed the muddiness. Cos i've only heard it true my monitors. Will try to listen to it again in camp later, but that will be too late, cos when i spot something and i cant do anything about it, it feels like "teh lampa" cos stuck in camp...
Boy i hate NS.
Kinda salvaged the kick... and did a lil bit of automation.
brought back the vocals by a lil tad.
Need you use your ears again and provide with a lil feedback, vegan if you dont mind. By the way, what do you work as dude? Can i like understudy you or something?
I'm not sure if i've removed the muddiness. Cos i've only heard it true my monitors. Will try to listen to it again in camp later, but that will be too late, cos when i spot something and i cant do anything about it, it feels like "teh lampa" cos stuck in camp...
Boy i hate NS.
seekz
New member
Oh forgot to put the URL. heheheh
http://www.seekz.net/shutupwavmp3.mp3
Vegan hope you wont find me irritating, yeah, cos thats the only way i learn... you want tution fees also i dont mind
http://www.seekz.net/shutupwavmp3.mp3
Vegan hope you wont find me irritating, yeah, cos thats the only way i learn... you want tution fees also i dont mind
Heheh tuition fees. It's ok don't need, just listen to more music in other genres can already. I'm not affiliated with any of the studios, and i'm into the internet. I listen to all kinds of music but definitely those rock days are over.
Down to business.... At the moment i'm listening to this on my altec lansing speakers
my usual casual listening situation ( slightly scooped mids, not enough clarity on highs, a bit of bass boost ). It sounds like you just compressed the lows and mids, with some eq tweaks. Thinned out the guitars, shelved the lo end and had an overall level drop. The kick can be heard, but my opinion is that the backing track is a bit too compressed and the drums not really nicely recorded. Theres a lack of meat in this compared to the first post. The levels need to be raised to figure out whether it's just a volume thing or an eq thing. Some specifics, at 0:28 & 1:03 the guitar rings out, should cut out the lower frequencies to mids on that because that sounds so much like humming. The eq on the guitars don't have to remain the same all the way. At the solo, the guitars dominate, so the snare gets swamped.
Something about how you've miked the drums is also a bit off. Toms seem to be totally on the left and the snare isn't as snappy as i'd have liked it to be. The drums just aren't as forceful as i'd like.
Overall, i like the way the vocals sit now. Part of it because of the eq tweaks you've done for the rest of the instruments. It seems to be missing some mids and the levels are a lower than the first post. The mix i made has some flaws as well. One of which being too bass heavy. BTW what monitors do you mix on?
Down to business.... At the moment i'm listening to this on my altec lansing speakers
my usual casual listening situation ( slightly scooped mids, not enough clarity on highs, a bit of bass boost ). It sounds like you just compressed the lows and mids, with some eq tweaks. Thinned out the guitars, shelved the lo end and had an overall level drop. The kick can be heard, but my opinion is that the backing track is a bit too compressed and the drums not really nicely recorded. Theres a lack of meat in this compared to the first post. The levels need to be raised to figure out whether it's just a volume thing or an eq thing. Some specifics, at 0:28 & 1:03 the guitar rings out, should cut out the lower frequencies to mids on that because that sounds so much like humming. The eq on the guitars don't have to remain the same all the way. At the solo, the guitars dominate, so the snare gets swamped.Something about how you've miked the drums is also a bit off. Toms seem to be totally on the left and the snare isn't as snappy as i'd have liked it to be. The drums just aren't as forceful as i'd like.
Overall, i like the way the vocals sit now. Part of it because of the eq tweaks you've done for the rest of the instruments. It seems to be missing some mids and the levels are a lower than the first post. The mix i made has some flaws as well. One of which being too bass heavy. BTW what monitors do you mix on?
seekz
New member
I feel that basically their bands arrangement for this song is pretty much for "live" usage.
I mix on a pair of MSP3 speakers and also on a pair of TDK hi-fiish 2.1 system. accidentally forgot to turn off the TDK when mixing damn tulan, have to keep redoing and redoing..
Basically what i can hear is when the bassist plays the higher strings, is that he accidentally lets the other strings ring, letting out those HUGE sub bass that dominates the song, so i did a sharp cut at around 25 or 30 hz, not sure where, forgot liao. And also compressed it becos certain parts are really boomy.
Well one thing i learnt is that to record a band's song really well the recordist needs to know their song really well.
Yeah, frankly speaking, i dont really know how to balance out this guy's solo, to i mean make it sound like a real solo. i gave it a lil vol, and added some reverb, and yeah a stereo delay. but it still sounds like crap...
The drums, i think the only toms the guy used was the floor tom, and occasionally the rack ones. Prob is i dont have a kick mic and the guy cant play very well and doesnt wana tune the toms to his liking even though i told him the drums aint tuned right. hehe
I feel that the endless tweaking is quite fustrating. I might wana re-record them all over again.
How would you suggest i do the thing? Record everyone dry, then effect it myself later on? Or is that any part of the arrangements i can take out and use a synth instead?(actually i've seriously considered that)
Or maybe you can tell me how i can balance the thing properly when i re-record everything.
I feel its damn hard to record a band properly, my ears get fatigue damn fucking fast man... Totally cant spot many deadly mistakes at the recording stage due to "too many takes" syndrome.
Hey vegan, so what do you do? Are you in the music industry?
I mix on a pair of MSP3 speakers and also on a pair of TDK hi-fiish 2.1 system. accidentally forgot to turn off the TDK when mixing damn tulan, have to keep redoing and redoing..
Basically what i can hear is when the bassist plays the higher strings, is that he accidentally lets the other strings ring, letting out those HUGE sub bass that dominates the song, so i did a sharp cut at around 25 or 30 hz, not sure where, forgot liao. And also compressed it becos certain parts are really boomy.
Well one thing i learnt is that to record a band's song really well the recordist needs to know their song really well.
Yeah, frankly speaking, i dont really know how to balance out this guy's solo, to i mean make it sound like a real solo. i gave it a lil vol, and added some reverb, and yeah a stereo delay. but it still sounds like crap...
The drums, i think the only toms the guy used was the floor tom, and occasionally the rack ones. Prob is i dont have a kick mic and the guy cant play very well and doesnt wana tune the toms to his liking even though i told him the drums aint tuned right. hehe
I feel that the endless tweaking is quite fustrating. I might wana re-record them all over again.
How would you suggest i do the thing? Record everyone dry, then effect it myself later on? Or is that any part of the arrangements i can take out and use a synth instead?(actually i've seriously considered that)
Or maybe you can tell me how i can balance the thing properly when i re-record everything.
I feel its damn hard to record a band properly, my ears get fatigue damn fucking fast man... Totally cant spot many deadly mistakes at the recording stage due to "too many takes" syndrome.
Hey vegan, so what do you do? Are you in the music industry?
Internet ... linux, freebsd, solaris, java, perl ..that kind of thing. But i've made it a point to know what and why i like the music i listen to.
I think you might need a pair of headphones to check for stereo. Usually i'll mix on my m1actives, check on my akg271 and mdrv6. I've only heard the msp5 and not the msp3s but they seem to be highly rated by the guys at future music. so can't really say if they are messing with you. If you're getting fatigued, is it because you're listening at too high a level? I switch between everything to give myself a break. Plus i think you need a reference CD if you don't have one. The 2 mixes have the dubious distinction of being quickly referenced to mars volta (actually a very compressed mix) and the white stripes (de stilj a softer gentler mix)..
The band's arrangement is fine, but the drumming isn't. I wouldn't take out anything if the band doesn't already play them. You shouldn't be doing notches to the bass if you can just trim it on the duff notes. I'm hearing more of the guitars actually but i could be wrong. If you're re-recording them, try to get the kick more upfront and the snares as well esp if you've only got one drum track. I assume you've got at least 3 channels on drums? I'd let them run through once, and take notes on the kick/snare levels, because the condenser mikes can distort on the kick. Try for a rough mix, but don't kill yourself over it. I'd try recording them all dry, as in recorded signal dry, with wet foldback. Esp the guitars if you've got some nice amp sims/fx and can split the signal. But if it isn't a paying gig, then just straight from the close mike on the guitar.
Most of the problem lies with the rhythm section. If it was tighter, even a slightly below average recording can sound ok.
I think you might need a pair of headphones to check for stereo. Usually i'll mix on my m1actives, check on my akg271 and mdrv6. I've only heard the msp5 and not the msp3s but they seem to be highly rated by the guys at future music. so can't really say if they are messing with you. If you're getting fatigued, is it because you're listening at too high a level? I switch between everything to give myself a break. Plus i think you need a reference CD if you don't have one. The 2 mixes have the dubious distinction of being quickly referenced to mars volta (actually a very compressed mix) and the white stripes (de stilj a softer gentler mix)..
The band's arrangement is fine, but the drumming isn't. I wouldn't take out anything if the band doesn't already play them. You shouldn't be doing notches to the bass if you can just trim it on the duff notes. I'm hearing more of the guitars actually but i could be wrong. If you're re-recording them, try to get the kick more upfront and the snares as well esp if you've only got one drum track. I assume you've got at least 3 channels on drums? I'd let them run through once, and take notes on the kick/snare levels, because the condenser mikes can distort on the kick. Try for a rough mix, but don't kill yourself over it. I'd try recording them all dry, as in recorded signal dry, with wet foldback. Esp the guitars if you've got some nice amp sims/fx and can split the signal. But if it isn't a paying gig, then just straight from the close mike on the guitar.
Most of the problem lies with the rhythm section. If it was tighter, even a slightly below average recording can sound ok.
thor666
New member
Just my 5 cents.
Hmm... i'm no expert, but I heard both ur 2 versions of the recording. Seems like the phaser needs to stay for the guitar harmonization sections.. because the 2 guitars sound out of time during those parts.
The solo guitar tone needs to be a bit more trebly i think. Feels too muddy for my preference. Would be good to track separately.
The drum(-playing?) lacks clarity.
bass riffs feel somewhat coming at the wrong places...
Agree with vegan... the sound does need to be tighter.
btw hope the band doesn't get offended at my comments... I hope whatever I say about what I hear helps
and ya... keep on doing this stuff... you're doing great
Hmm... i'm no expert, but I heard both ur 2 versions of the recording. Seems like the phaser needs to stay for the guitar harmonization sections.. because the 2 guitars sound out of time during those parts.
The solo guitar tone needs to be a bit more trebly i think. Feels too muddy for my preference. Would be good to track separately.
The drum(-playing?) lacks clarity.
bass riffs feel somewhat coming at the wrong places...
Agree with vegan... the sound does need to be tighter.
btw hope the band doesn't get offended at my comments... I hope whatever I say about what I hear helps
and ya... keep on doing this stuff... you're doing great
one big issue for the song is performance... and no engineering can help solve that.
The drumming is out of tempo, the guitar is out of tune....
on the good side, this is a pretty good song and the vocalist is actually very good. there's not a lot of rock bands in our region with vocalist that KNOW how to sing.
The drumming is out of tempo, the guitar is out of tune....
on the good side, this is a pretty good song and the vocalist is actually very good.
there's not a lot of rock bands in our region with vocalist that KNOW how to sing.