Home studio ...
- Thread starter Crown
- Start date
"Crown : I use the presonus firebox preamp all the time. http://www.myspace.com/stellastoryband I used firePOD for vocals but the box preamps are same as POD (at least in my opinion). but don't let it represent firebox accurately though, alot of mixing work involved haha. "
sure , i guess i'll most likely purchase the presonus firebox .
"hey crown, there are much simpler setups for recording. may we ask what u plan to record? demos / eps / youtube vids / myspace clips? are u gonna do multi-track recording and mixing?"
umm ... any difference among all those ? if i really had to choose , maybe it'd be demos.
and by multi-track recording , do you mean if i'm planning to record many instruments together at the same time ? like , drums and bass playing together / drum and guitar blah blah blah ?
sure , i guess i'll most likely purchase the presonus firebox .
"hey crown, there are much simpler setups for recording. may we ask what u plan to record? demos / eps / youtube vids / myspace clips? are u gonna do multi-track recording and mixing?"
umm ... any difference among all those ? if i really had to choose , maybe it'd be demos.
and by multi-track recording , do you mean if i'm planning to record many instruments together at the same time ? like , drums and bass playing together / drum and guitar blah blah blah ?
don't mind me asking a few more questions ah .. (i guess i'll be asking a few questions everyday , HAHA .)
after reading books and searching the net , i saw some questions regarding "how do i get my MIDI instruments to sound more real?"
so yeah .
1.) i HAVENT got any thing to get started yet , but how do i get "my" MIDI instruments to sound more realistic ? is it something to do with Software , or the Sound card ?
anddddd.. hold on lemme think what else im not sure of ...
2.) what exactly does a mixer do ? it has got something to do with adjusting volumes and stuff , but aren't there already programs which has a virtual "mixer" to do so ? is there a difference ?
3.) is a mixer supposed to be used WHILE recording , or AFTER recording ? i hear "mixing , mixing , mixing" all the time .
i guess that's it for now . i'm sure i have a thousand more questions .
;D Thanks !
oh ya oh ya , one more..
4.) which is better ? the http://www.audio-pro-central.com/reviews/review_of_the_fmr_rnp.htm you introduced me , or the presonus firebox ? FOR NOW .
after reading books and searching the net , i saw some questions regarding "how do i get my MIDI instruments to sound more real?"
so yeah .
1.) i HAVENT got any thing to get started yet , but how do i get "my" MIDI instruments to sound more realistic ? is it something to do with Software , or the Sound card ?
anddddd.. hold on lemme think what else im not sure of ...
2.) what exactly does a mixer do ? it has got something to do with adjusting volumes and stuff , but aren't there already programs which has a virtual "mixer" to do so ? is there a difference ?
3.) is a mixer supposed to be used WHILE recording , or AFTER recording ? i hear "mixing , mixing , mixing" all the time .
i guess that's it for now . i'm sure i have a thousand more questions .
;D Thanks !
oh ya oh ya , one more..
4.) which is better ? the http://www.audio-pro-central.com/reviews/review_of_the_fmr_rnp.htm you introduced me , or the presonus firebox ? FOR NOW .
Last edited:
MadWerewolfBoy
New member
for multi track recording u may choose to record many things at one time (but all in separate channels) or record1 thing at a time. usually recording one thing at a time is better if u have the time, then use these separate tracks and synch it through the use of a daw
for single track live recording, everything is recorded together on one track. it is not possible to separate the different instruments onces recorded. less control for these so people usually dun do this when they have a choice.
if u are just starting out home recording, getting an analog mixer is not the wisest choice. getting an interface to get ur mic recording things is better, like what others here have said, the presonus firebox / audiobox will help u with that if u have a XLR type of mic. these will help u get going with recording with mic. so lets say u are playing a backing track with an acoustic, u can recording the while thing in 1 take and then save that track. next u play the track through maybe say, headphones and u sing over the track through ur mic, this is ur 2nd track, the vocals
then u may wanna add some keys in through ur midi controller. u record ur midi track while listening to ur 1st backing track and u get ur 3rd, the keys.
now u have 3 separate audio files. guitar, vocal and keys all recorded separately but all in time. u can use a a simple daw like audacity (freeware) to sync ur 3 tracks together in time. u can also add certain effects (depending on daw) like compression, reverb and stuff through add-ons. and u can adjust the level of each track so that they are balanced the way u want them to. this process is called "mixing". notice there was no analog mixer involved. if there was, this process would be slightly more complicated and u would need more physical hardware.
the cheapest alternative, however, is to get a good recorder like the zoom h4n (see advert on the right hand column of soft) and use it to record ur individual tracks. the sound quality of this lil gadget should be sufficient if u are recording stuff for online uploads and demos. if u wish to go pro-er than that, maybe recording in a studio would be a better idea >.<
eg of h4n's sound quality can be found on the link in this thread:
http://soft.com.sg/forum/open-mic/152141-reworked-hymn-amazing-grace.html
for single track live recording, everything is recorded together on one track. it is not possible to separate the different instruments onces recorded. less control for these so people usually dun do this when they have a choice.
if u are just starting out home recording, getting an analog mixer is not the wisest choice. getting an interface to get ur mic recording things is better, like what others here have said, the presonus firebox / audiobox will help u with that if u have a XLR type of mic. these will help u get going with recording with mic. so lets say u are playing a backing track with an acoustic, u can recording the while thing in 1 take and then save that track. next u play the track through maybe say, headphones and u sing over the track through ur mic, this is ur 2nd track, the vocals
then u may wanna add some keys in through ur midi controller. u record ur midi track while listening to ur 1st backing track and u get ur 3rd, the keys.
now u have 3 separate audio files. guitar, vocal and keys all recorded separately but all in time. u can use a a simple daw like audacity (freeware) to sync ur 3 tracks together in time. u can also add certain effects (depending on daw) like compression, reverb and stuff through add-ons. and u can adjust the level of each track so that they are balanced the way u want them to. this process is called "mixing". notice there was no analog mixer involved. if there was, this process would be slightly more complicated and u would need more physical hardware.
the cheapest alternative, however, is to get a good recorder like the zoom h4n (see advert on the right hand column of soft) and use it to record ur individual tracks. the sound quality of this lil gadget should be sufficient if u are recording stuff for online uploads and demos. if u wish to go pro-er than that, maybe recording in a studio would be a better idea >.<
eg of h4n's sound quality can be found on the link in this thread:
http://soft.com.sg/forum/open-mic/152141-reworked-hymn-amazing-grace.html
Thanks , MadWerewolfBoy , somehow i understand even better with such long explaination . LOL
for the Zoom h4n , i've heard alot of people talking about it , but somehow i don't feel like using it . feels like too small of a gadget to trust on and spend $428 on . like ... i don't know . i know it does sound good but i just don't wish to go for it . weird i know .
hahaha.
for the Zoom h4n , i've heard alot of people talking about it , but somehow i don't feel like using it . feels like too small of a gadget to trust on and spend $428 on . like ... i don't know . i know it does sound good but i just don't wish to go for it . weird i know .
hahaha.
blueprintstudios
New member
Crown : answering your qns first ..
1.)midi is just data of your playing, it has no sound. so you may play on electronic drums now but changing the sound module to that as if you're playing percussion or even some hiphop drum kit is infinite, so it's the "sound module" you're using for your midi playing. some orchestra for example may sound digital and fake, but (volume automation) controlling the volume manually for each "virtual player" or add reverb/compression may add some kind of "life" to it. so this is where mixing also counts
2.) hardware mixer has capability to add EQ/reverb/pan BEFORE it gets "recorded" (if you use it for recording) , but if you make a mistake in the EQ you cannot work with that track until you re-record it again, so most ppl will usually record it "raw" or "flat" first, then apply that in software (DAW-digital audio workstation a.k.a "SOFTWARE MIXER"). that's why nowadays hardware mixers are commonly only used in jam studios and live.
3.)in recording situations, the "software mixer" (DAW) is used DURING recording, but people have the misconception that to record you need a HARDWARE mixer, which is pointless because you record using the hardware mixer's PREAMPS ONLY, and then you start eqing panning etc later on in SOFTWARE. as I answer these questions re-read the DIY Recording FAQ and realise you can relate to it more and more.
so the stages of recording is usually :
1) PreProduction : jamming to the song, getting the feel right, finding out what tempo works best. is the song finalized or more creative touches can be added at this point?
2) Recording : drums(overhead,overhead,snare,kick,tom,tom,tom),guitar,bass,vox etc.. into individual tracks.
3) Mixing : putting those individual tracks together as a "stereo.wav" via compression/eq/reverb/etc. but not exceeding the 0db limit (above 0db = distort/clip/overload)
4) Mastering : final touch up of the stereo.wav be it making it louder, or a final EQ or final compression, warmer,audio exciter , noise cleanup , etc.
4.) FMR RNP is a great preamp! of course that one is better than the firebox but the firebox now is your ideal situation, I'll be right to say that if you kick ass with the firebox preamp , in future if you buy a better preamp you got no reason to sound worse right?
Now here's my problem questions :
i forgot to ask, does your midi controller have a USB input? if already have, then you don't exactly need presonus firebox. cos after I read what madwerewolfboy said, I disagreed with his recommendation initially because Zoom H4n does not support midi, but reading it again , I realised if your midi controller already has USB support, you don't need firebox's midi inputs. cos you only need the 2 preamps of the h4n (which is pretty good too). however this one would be your own dilemma ...
1) if you bought Zoom H4n at $428 :
Pros - you get portability, you get 2 XLR inputs, and you get 2 onboard condenser mics and USB audio interface (you didn't mention whether your mac has firewire inputs?)
you could even record drums at jam studios using the 2 onboard mics as overheads + the 2 inputs for snare and kick. cos H4n records 4 track at once standalone. can even record your gigs or whatever.
Cons - you'll be stuck. no upgradability. but for your situation demo is alright. but take note, if you plug H4n via USB , audio interface mode, you can only use the preamps OR the mics. 2 channels only! (almost slipped my mind) no 4 channels!
2) if you bought the Presonus Firebox at $400 :
Pros - there's 2 XLR (preamp) inputs, there's no mics, but there's 2 line inputs (no preamp), which means in future when you upgrade and buy a FMR RNP or any other better preamp than firebox's, you can just plug into the line inputs and have 2 inputs of firebox preamps and 2 inputs of preamp of your choice. there's midi input too, if your midi controller has no midi > USB , or should you buy an electronic drumkit with midi output, you can utilize this midi thingy. so with 4 inputs , midi.
Cons - if you don't have firewire port, this is out of your league. if your midi controller has usb, then this one also quite pointless.
H4n cannot upgrade but achieves all your purpose. firebox can upgrade, but you still need to set aside cash to buy mic.
P.S : before you have the impression that H4n's puny mics are crap, here's a recording (but with proper mixing) I did purely on the old discontinued H4 and the H4n now is even better.
1.)midi is just data of your playing, it has no sound. so you may play on electronic drums now but changing the sound module to that as if you're playing percussion or even some hiphop drum kit is infinite, so it's the "sound module" you're using for your midi playing. some orchestra for example may sound digital and fake, but (volume automation) controlling the volume manually for each "virtual player" or add reverb/compression may add some kind of "life" to it. so this is where mixing also counts
2.) hardware mixer has capability to add EQ/reverb/pan BEFORE it gets "recorded" (if you use it for recording) , but if you make a mistake in the EQ you cannot work with that track until you re-record it again, so most ppl will usually record it "raw" or "flat" first, then apply that in software (DAW-digital audio workstation a.k.a "SOFTWARE MIXER"). that's why nowadays hardware mixers are commonly only used in jam studios and live.
3.)in recording situations, the "software mixer" (DAW) is used DURING recording, but people have the misconception that to record you need a HARDWARE mixer, which is pointless because you record using the hardware mixer's PREAMPS ONLY, and then you start eqing panning etc later on in SOFTWARE. as I answer these questions re-read the DIY Recording FAQ and realise you can relate to it more and more.
so the stages of recording is usually :
1) PreProduction : jamming to the song, getting the feel right, finding out what tempo works best. is the song finalized or more creative touches can be added at this point?
2) Recording : drums(overhead,overhead,snare,kick,tom,tom,tom),guitar,bass,vox etc.. into individual tracks.
3) Mixing : putting those individual tracks together as a "stereo.wav" via compression/eq/reverb/etc. but not exceeding the 0db limit (above 0db = distort/clip/overload)
4) Mastering : final touch up of the stereo.wav be it making it louder, or a final EQ or final compression, warmer,audio exciter , noise cleanup , etc.
4.) FMR RNP is a great preamp! of course that one is better than the firebox but the firebox now is your ideal situation, I'll be right to say that if you kick ass with the firebox preamp , in future if you buy a better preamp you got no reason to sound worse right?
Now here's my problem questions :
i forgot to ask, does your midi controller have a USB input? if already have, then you don't exactly need presonus firebox. cos after I read what madwerewolfboy said, I disagreed with his recommendation initially because Zoom H4n does not support midi, but reading it again , I realised if your midi controller already has USB support, you don't need firebox's midi inputs. cos you only need the 2 preamps of the h4n (which is pretty good too). however this one would be your own dilemma ...
1) if you bought Zoom H4n at $428 :
Pros - you get portability, you get 2 XLR inputs, and you get 2 onboard condenser mics and USB audio interface (you didn't mention whether your mac has firewire inputs?)
you could even record drums at jam studios using the 2 onboard mics as overheads + the 2 inputs for snare and kick. cos H4n records 4 track at once standalone. can even record your gigs or whatever.
Cons - you'll be stuck. no upgradability. but for your situation demo is alright. but take note, if you plug H4n via USB , audio interface mode, you can only use the preamps OR the mics. 2 channels only! (almost slipped my mind) no 4 channels!
2) if you bought the Presonus Firebox at $400 :
Pros - there's 2 XLR (preamp) inputs, there's no mics, but there's 2 line inputs (no preamp), which means in future when you upgrade and buy a FMR RNP or any other better preamp than firebox's, you can just plug into the line inputs and have 2 inputs of firebox preamps and 2 inputs of preamp of your choice. there's midi input too, if your midi controller has no midi > USB , or should you buy an electronic drumkit with midi output, you can utilize this midi thingy. so with 4 inputs , midi.
Cons - if you don't have firewire port, this is out of your league. if your midi controller has usb, then this one also quite pointless.
H4n cannot upgrade but achieves all your purpose. firebox can upgrade, but you still need to set aside cash to buy mic.
P.S : before you have the impression that H4n's puny mics are crap, here's a recording (but with proper mixing) I did purely on the old discontinued H4 and the H4n now is even better.
blueprintstudios
New member
oh hey you're online. anyway to make you more frustrated, I personally can recommend both H4n and firebox lol . there's a reason why James (soft) put both on the online store. cos both have great feedback and use in its own right. I've already highlighted the pros and cons and you can see, with its similar cost, it's balanced depending on the user. I've used the old H4 and I had 2 of it even but had to sell it to buy Firepod for drum recording then after that sold off firepod to buy firebox cos I got no more drum recording for the moment. usually now I use Beat Merchants's FP10 (also firepod renamed) or borrow from james. so as a once owner of old H4 and now user of firebox. I doubt you'd go wrong with any of them, more depends on your preference and see which fits into your situation
Today's question 
1.) are "Nearfield monitors" and "Farfield Monitors" same ?
meaning ...
are they just differences in where you place it ? Or are the monitors itself different ??
2.) "Analog" and "Digital" mixer , they're both mixers . Just that Analog is the real thing , and digital is the one in DAW or whatever right ?
and this paragraph ..
"Some mixers have designations such as "16:8:2," which means 16 audio channels , mixing down into eight channels (four assignable stereo groups) , and then finally into two channels (stereo left and right)."
3.) what is (16) Audio Channel ? what is the 'Eight channel , four assignable stereo groups' , and then "Stereo left and right"?
is 16 Audio channel = me recording 16 different things at once.
'Eight channel , four assignable stereo groups' <-- this one i've got no idea at all , can't guess.
and Stereo Left and Right is for the speaker , like "Pan" ?
1.) are "Nearfield monitors" and "Farfield Monitors" same ?
meaning ...
are they just differences in where you place it ? Or are the monitors itself different ??
2.) "Analog" and "Digital" mixer , they're both mixers . Just that Analog is the real thing , and digital is the one in DAW or whatever right ?
and this paragraph ..
"Some mixers have designations such as "16:8:2," which means 16 audio channels , mixing down into eight channels (four assignable stereo groups) , and then finally into two channels (stereo left and right)."
3.) what is (16) Audio Channel ? what is the 'Eight channel , four assignable stereo groups' , and then "Stereo left and right"?
is 16 Audio channel = me recording 16 different things at once.
'Eight channel , four assignable stereo groups' <-- this one i've got no idea at all , can't guess.
and Stereo Left and Right is for the speaker , like "Pan" ?
having owned quite a few mobile type interfaces, i'd say the firebox pres are the cleanest..m-audio only if you wanna use protools..plus the firebox drivers are rock solid (some m-audio ones are buggy)..the firebox shld tide you over for quite awhile till you decide to "get serious"..
1.) are "Nearfield monitors" and "Farfield Monitors" same ?
meaning are they just differences in where you place it ? Or are the monitors itself different ??
The monitors themselves are different.
2.) "Analog" and "Digital" mixer , they're both mixers . Just that Analog is the real thing , and digital is the one in DAW or whatever right ?
Not necessarily, digital mixers usually represent hardware as well. Analog mixers would mean a 100% analog signal path (at no point is the signal converted to digital bytes). Digital mixers you can think of them to be like an audio interface but with full mixer board surface. Sometimes they have features like automated faders, pots and preset memory.
3.) what is (16) Audio Channel ? what is the 'Eight channel , four assignable stereo groups' , and then "Stereo left and right"?
The four assignable stereo groups are also referred to as mix busses or aux busses. It basically means you can send selected tracks out of your 16 to be mixed into these busses. Let's say I've got 4 mics for my drums going into 4 separate tracks among other things and I want to lower the volume of the drums in whole. It'd be easier if I send my drums in the one stereo group so I can lower the drums with just one fader. This is just one example of the flexibility it allows for signal routing.
The last two are your master output where eventually all 16 tracks will head to.
meaning are they just differences in where you place it ? Or are the monitors itself different ??
The monitors themselves are different.
2.) "Analog" and "Digital" mixer , they're both mixers . Just that Analog is the real thing , and digital is the one in DAW or whatever right ?
Not necessarily, digital mixers usually represent hardware as well. Analog mixers would mean a 100% analog signal path (at no point is the signal converted to digital bytes). Digital mixers you can think of them to be like an audio interface but with full mixer board surface. Sometimes they have features like automated faders, pots and preset memory.
3.) what is (16) Audio Channel ? what is the 'Eight channel , four assignable stereo groups' , and then "Stereo left and right"?
The four assignable stereo groups are also referred to as mix busses or aux busses. It basically means you can send selected tracks out of your 16 to be mixed into these busses. Let's say I've got 4 mics for my drums going into 4 separate tracks among other things and I want to lower the volume of the drums in whole. It'd be easier if I send my drums in the one stereo group so I can lower the drums with just one fader. This is just one example of the flexibility it allows for signal routing.
The last two are your master output where eventually all 16 tracks will head to.
Last edited:
Presonus Firebox can be used as "external soundcard" ?
so Presonus firebox is an audio interface , and audio interface = external soundcard , and presonus firebox has preamp for my mic .
am i right for saying that ?
so if i get the presonus firebox i don't have to get an external soundcard which i was planning to , anymore ?
so Presonus firebox is an audio interface , and audio interface = external soundcard , and presonus firebox has preamp for my mic .
am i right for saying that ?
so if i get the presonus firebox i don't have to get an external soundcard which i was planning to , anymore ?
blueprintstudios
New member
1) yes.
2) yes.
3) yes. if you get the presonus firebox, (which is already an external soundcard) , it does not make sense to get another one.
I rephrase it this way :
I use a laptop, with onboard realtek audio soundcard. I play mp3s/youtube/mix through it (using ASIO4ALL) at 13ms latency. but should I need to record, I plug in my firebox. configure my OS (Operating System/Windows XP) to use the Firebox as the default soundcard. so whenever I play mp3s/youtube or mix, or record (at 6ms-8ms latency around there). it will be through the firebox, and there will be no sound coming out from my realtek audio soundcard output.
oh ya before I forget to mention. it is not recommended to record with your firebox with your wireless LAN on. there are glitches because wireless lan adapter + 1394(firewire) shares some kinda bandwidth or bla bla geek talk , if both are enabled you may experience pops and clicks recorded in. but hey, in the first place your recording DAW shouldn't blend with the internet heheh. this is only for recording ,mixing etc should be alright. but i'm not sure about mac.
2) yes.
3) yes. if you get the presonus firebox, (which is already an external soundcard) , it does not make sense to get another one.
I rephrase it this way :
I use a laptop, with onboard realtek audio soundcard. I play mp3s/youtube/mix through it (using ASIO4ALL) at 13ms latency. but should I need to record, I plug in my firebox. configure my OS (Operating System/Windows XP) to use the Firebox as the default soundcard. so whenever I play mp3s/youtube or mix, or record (at 6ms-8ms latency around there). it will be through the firebox, and there will be no sound coming out from my realtek audio soundcard output.
oh ya before I forget to mention. it is not recommended to record with your firebox with your wireless LAN on. there are glitches because wireless lan adapter + 1394(firewire) shares some kinda bandwidth or bla bla geek talk , if both are enabled you may experience pops and clicks recorded in. but hey, in the first place your recording DAW shouldn't blend with the internet heheh. this is only for recording ,mixing etc should be alright. but i'm not sure about mac.
The preamps probably don't make too much of a difference in the recording... It is important to record properly as nothing can save a bad recording.
I happen to work with both Logic and Pro Tools for quite a while so I thought I could give a nice comparison. Logic is better in MIDI, the wavetable synths sounds are more convincing. It is also rising up quite fast in the recent years, so it is a rather safe choice. Logic Express costs $319 in the Apple store, relatively enough to work with if you are starting small. The full version, Logic Studio is at $788 now. The full version has more sounds and synthesizers and DSPs but the Express Version would probably be enough.
Pro Tools has been ISS for very long, and it is almost undeniably the most stable DAW. Logic experiences system overloads when multiple programs are running concurrently on laptops. Audio Edits in Pro Tools sounds smoother as well. Haven't tried the MIDI in Pro Tools but have heard samples of it but I wasn't too impressed.
I think it would be nice to start off with Logic Express first, it is quite user-friendly as well. I've tried recording on Logic without an audio interface and it works perfectly. Pro Tools would require an audio interface to work.
If you are interested in getting Pro Tools, you could check out Mbox Pro 2 from M-Audio, it comes with Pro Tools LE 8. Don't worry, the Mbox Pro 2 works with Logic as well.
