Help on Scales!!!

[jeffrey0603]

I just started on learning scales. I need clarifications on this.

This is the FMajor and relative D minor scale. So if the key is in F major or D minor, i can play this whole pattern and it will sound good?? (hope it makes sense)

Also i am not very sure of the CAGED system.

Can some one explain to me in detail.
I was looking at this guide.. http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/the_ultimate_guide_to_guitar_chapter_ii_2_scales_-_diatonic_scales_in_practice.html


Any help would be very much appreciated!!!

 

[Phil]

I typed about 3 paragraphs about scales.

Then I realised that to fully get the points across, there are so many things that I need to write about. And as I was writing I also realised that I do not know what is your level of understanding, so I cannot assume or skip anything.

That's when I stopped, no point writing another guide when there are already a million out there.

However, here's some advise. Go to the library or find some books on music theory. Or just go on youtube or google 'music theory' or 'scales'.

I found that the best way to go about advancing to the next level of guitar-playing is understanding how it works. And to do that you can't avoid some basic music theory. With that you can better understand how to scales are created and their purposes. And then you'd be able to apply what you've learnt more intuitively into your playing instead of just plain old rote memorisation.

And then, when you encounter any problems, get back to us. And I mean specific problems or specific areas where you just cannot grasp what is going on.
Not open-ended questions like 'what are scales and how to use them?'
Because seriously there's a lot going on and you need to take it step by step. Responses here would be sporadic at best, and when you've these little gaps in the learning process you'd find that you'd not understand many things.

 

[LadyInTears]

hmmm was wondering about this too.
how to i read scales like this?

 

[guitarlover]

well, Phil is right....perhaps u can try using that scale and play it over a FMaj or Dm key

song first , and see how it sounds...whether good or bad......

then see why sometimes its good sometimes its not......

main thing is the application, its how u use these scales to create....


as for the caged system, its just different open chords shape of the same chord...

in the picture provided by you..its all F chord in standard open chord shape form for easy memory...

 

[theunknown]

yeah, since the roots are Fmajor and Dminor, u can play the notes that are depicted in the diagram, however it is not just "hey song in Fmajor, just play any shapes can already", u must know how to start and end a progression, and fit the notes in between.

about the chord shape, first u have to understand what makes a chord. the diagram shows the key of Fmajorr.

a major F chord comprises of F (the root), C and A notes (the terms i forgot, diminished 5th or what lol). so the diagram shows the different main patterns of which u can play F chord. in fact u can play any keys in those 5 patterns. if u wanna Emajor, find the notes E, B and G#.

if u look properly, the shapes E and A can give u power chords. just that the root (or bass) note are in different strings. if u cant see why the blue box is A, take the left most fret and imagine it as fret 0. why isit at fret 8, is because its still an Fmajor chord in the shape of A.

 

[fenderrules]

Hey man..

I myself am not strong in theory, but I would advise that you actually try out a scale. The article you gave has the Aeolian mode, which is also the minor scale. Go learn and play around with the scale over a progression, in which this case will be a Fmaj, Dm, Bb and C. You will notice that not only does it sound good, but also the notes will gel with the progression, hence a relative scale. I always think of it as matching DNAs.

I'll try to put this into application.

To make it easier to understand, We will be using Dmin as the first chord of the progression, followed by Bb, Fmaj and finally C. We'll be playing a chord on a bar each, a repetition of 4 counts over a 1/4 beat at a moderate pace. You can use an acoustic guitar as well to play it.

So while you are doing that, I will show you in tab form an example of a simple solo with the Aeolian and Ionian.

-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
------------------5h7~--------------
---------5----7----------------------
--5-7-8----8-------------------------
-------------------------------------

Dm

-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
--7-9-10-9p7------------------------
--------------10-7h8~---------------
-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

Bb

-------------------------------------
--------------------6~--------------
---------------5h7------------------
-----6-----5h7----------------------
-6/7---7----------------------------
------------------------------------

Fmaj

-13-12-10-12-10-----10----------------------------------------------
------------------13-----13--10-11-10-----13-11-10------------------
----------------------------------------12-----------12-10-9---------
----------------------------------------------------------------10~--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Cmaj


So as you can see, there are lots of relative notes in a scale and knowing the notes is key to making a good tune. You can see that for every chord is being played I put it in bold to show that it has its place in the scale. Notice how they sound good together before you even reach the desired note? It shows that you must never forget the scale and progression you play in before you jam it out.

And before you know it, you'll keep it going with other scales besides the Ionian and Aeolian. You'll be able to understand and play it together with Phrygian, Mixolydian, and other modes, although I personally enjoy the sounds of Aeolian and Phrygian more.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[jeffrey0603]

To fenderules-
So basically the solo you played is a predefined set of notes right. But you are just selecting some of them and mixing it up.
SO i should just memorize all Aeolian, Phrygian, Mixolydian ... positions right??

Thanks a lot guys. seriously

 

[Breen]

Technically, you don't have to memorize 'Aeolian' or 'Mixylodian' or 'Lydian' etc because once you know a major scale fingering and where the notes are along the neck, you can then transpose this to everywhere and you got all your modes, in all keys.

If you learn the C major scale, and say play it in the root position on the 8th fret like the examples above, you firstly learn the C major scale and are able to jam something out in a C maj progression right?

However if then you get a groovy Dm key going, you didn't have to learn anything in Dm, because you have the notes from your C maj scale you just learnt, when applied as taught above, will give you D Dorian, perfect for something in Dm. And D Dorian notes are EXACTLY the same as C Major, or C Ionian, mode. I think you may have discovered this already.

So to move it further, you want to do something in Eminor, and thus your choice is E Dorian, you can play the notes in the D major scale and you have the framework for something in E Dorian. Fm and F Dorian? Yep, D# Major scale, or as equal as the former, Eb Major.

 

[Metal]

realli chim stuff...

 

[Breen]

It's actually fundamentally simple. Once you understand the meaning of it, you will realize it's easy to apply modes.

How to make music out of it, is another thing.

Don't go all Singaporean and say "waaah liek tat ah, dun wan lah got easier way not?"

 

[theunknown]

yeah what makes them simple is because they are usually interrelated to one another. people initially say, wahhh so many haaa..

still these too in-depth theory, usually i treat them as guideline, i dont follow the book. like my friend, he is super good at making chord progressions, but he doesnt know a thing about the CAGED system, scales and all that. he used common sense. like playing a nice lick, he says "sounds nice, got the tune in my head, play it out la" or another fren also when i was a noob then he thought me power chords he say "aiya u know F? the nirvana starting? if that one is F, u pull back two fret become G la. any shape u play, u want another root, just push or pull back everything"

 

[thedevilri]

I am feeling so stress Been playing for more than one year, but i still do not understand how to play a scale.

How do I actually know where to start first and stuff, yes to me it's really hard. But I am not looking for a easier method, i just need so clarification on how do I start my note. I know about C major scale, is it this?

e-------------5-7-8
B------5-6-8-------
G-5--7-------------

Like this right? @_@

 

[bf0502tr]

I am feeling so stress Been playing for more than one year, but i still do not understand how to play a scale.

How do I actually know where to start first and stuff, yes to me it's really hard. But I am not looking for a easier method, i just need so clarification on how do I start my note. I know about C major scale, is it this?

e-------------5-7-8
B------5-6-8-------
G-5--7-------------

Like this right? @_@

yea...that's part of the aeolian scale from the C major scale. though for ur G string, u might wanna add the note on the 4th fret as well. though i wouldn't recommend starting on the aeolian for a major scale since the aeolian is a minor scale. but then again, if u know what u're doing, by all means, go ahead.

the scales are as such for the C major scale:
C ionian - major
D dorian - minor
E phrygian - minor
F lydian - major
G mixolydian - major
A aeolian - minor
B locrian - minor

 

[bluepowder]

I see a lot of beginners posing this question, if you have problems...i would suggest you get yourself a teachers for a month or 2 atleast...to understand these basics..

getting a solo to sound good...is not just about knowing the notes of a scale and play them over chords..there are a lot of elements that go into it.....(whihc is why i recommend a teacher..ti will save u time)...

having said that...a scale is a good place to start.....so yes you can play the notes of the F major scale over any progression in the key of F major....but you will notice that certain notes of the F major scale sound good over certain chords....suppose you have a simple progression of Gminor C major F major....the notes that will sound good over 1 chord might or might not sound good over the next one...as a simple guide...use the notes in the chord as the safest choice of notes...and you can use the other notes in the scale to maneuver between them...

hope that helps

 

[thedevilri]

Really can't understand @_@.

Any good teacher to recommend? Good but cheap at the same time ~.~

 

[bf0502tr]

depends on what u call cheap. i get charged $50 per lesson and i think its reasonable for the amt of knowledge i get

 

[fretness]

REal bad at scales hahah

 

[bf0502tr]

thats a REal old thread u dug up...lol

 

[karlie]

okay uhm i speed read through everything and i don't think anyone mentioned this but your scales sounds like what i believe you might have learnt in primary school or something. the " DO RE ME FA SO LA TI DO "
sing it out if you have to.
your modes are basically the rearrangements of that.
like.
DORIAN - RE ME FA SO LA TI DO RE
PHRYGIAN - ME FA SO LA TI DO RE ME

and essientially they are all really just rearrangements fo your major scale which is what bluepowder was talking about

oh and yeah lol this is a really old thread.