Corrective practice techniques

[DoubleBlade]

Okay I know that we have discussed about employing correct methods of practising (Eg: correct fingering , pedalling techniques , dynamics control etc) all in the name of not acquiring bad practice habits along the way which may lead to difficulty in getting one back on the correct track. Preventive measures I should say.

But what happens when damage has already been done? When those bad habits seem to be like second nature to you when practicing? Is there any solution/cure to correct such bad habits which have already manifest itself into a habitual act.

Reason being seriously , as much as I really try my best to get my fingering right sometimes when I practice using the correct fingering stated in the score (of course I've made wrong fingerings and corrected them along the way) and when I play the piece in front of my teacher , my fingering automatically becomes hep hazard. I misinterprete articulation techniques for another (Eg : Slur on notes of different intervals and slur on a notes of the same interval). My eyes tend to be only centre on the notes and nothing more than that. Thus , neglecting whatever dynamics , articulations the notes has along with it. I think that's one of the bad habits of mine.

I mean one can just say read the score carefully but sometimes I don't know why I'm so cocked eyed in a sense that just when I thought I'm satisfied with my practising and when I play the piece during lesson it's all rubbish. It's quite frustrating and demoralising for me especially when you have a teacher who has high standards of you but I don't blame her because classical music requires perfection , sad to say. Every single note , dynamics , position of the fingers , fingering has to be followed strictly when playing , no questions asked.

I think I've already acquired some bad habits along the way during practising. I need to embark on some corrective work here.

Please advise

Cheers

 

[Cheez]

Doubleblade, I don't know any easy solution other than to keep practicing! You mentioned that during practice, you are able to use proper techniques but not so when you are with your teacher. This sounds like you just need to keep on at it. The way to unlearn something is to keep doing the correct way.

Recently, I've pulled out Chopin's Etude in E (op.10, no.3) and it seemed that my animato section was just full of "bad habits", if you call it that. Doing it again and again and again and again helps. No easy solution - practice! Only problem - I need more time to practice...

Oh, one more thing. Enjoying the piece also helps a lot. In my younger days, the only reason for practicing is getting through the piece so I can proceed to the next, passing the exams, making my teacher happy, getting correct techniques...etc. Now than I'm 35, no longer taking exams, has work and family to take care of etc - perspective changes. I now practice to: 1. enjoy the music (not that I did not do that before, but more so now), 2. keep my skills so I can help my son in his piano. And of course, I'm more into composition now than playing, but that's another story...

 

[DoubleBlade]

Well I've had my fair shares of spotting techniques and not spotting techniques in a bar of notes. Like sometimes the stacatto dot is so small so much so that sometimes I tend to play the note normally and stuff like that.

Oh yeah I think I'm in your younger days now. Practice for the sake of passing exams and pleasing the teacher and of course getting the correct techniques.

I still enjoy the pieces I play though but sad to say , the urge to want to pass exams , make your teacher happy get your techniques right surpasses it all.

 

[teraslasch]

don really enjoy classical pieces last time, today still the same haha.. i duno why i don like that orbiang sound that classical pieces give me. but some pieces nice.. i nevr like to please my teacher, they always abuse me!! arrrrrrrrrrrrr :lol:

 

[piano_ex]

ahahaha .. tera ... i think u got a bad teacher?? lolx ... =P

btw .... about the bad habits...

the only cure feasible to me is to do it slowly ... do everything slowly, again and again .... same with readings .....

but what i can see from ur story is that u haven't actually know the notes that well, that's why all u see in lesson (when u are more pressured) is the notes ....

practice until it's half memorize ... until u can actually ignore the notes, and start to look at other things ..... =)

hope it helps

 

[Cheez]

I still remember how crazy I was. In my younger days before my grade 8 exam, I was so sick of my scales techniques and the lack of speed and strength that I took 2 large rocks and tied them to the back of my hands and played scales.

Well, my parents found out, told my teacher, who gave me a big dressing down. Never did that again! And kids who read this, don't do it at home...

 

[piano_ex]

gasp .....

hahahaaha .... that's .. erm ... wow ... hahahaha =)

the most i did was ..... stress out .... cry over the piano ..... then sleep on the piano keys ...... (love piano so much now ..... btw, i was still 8yrs old that time ....)

 

[pf]

Unconciously, I practiced until I almost memorized the song...ALMOST...

Until my memory runs out and suddenly I found myself lost in the score and had to stop for a while. I think this irritate my bandmates. Maybe they think I didn't practice enough.

Thank God that my teacher has been patient with me getting lost. haha...

Anybody has advice to save me from such embarrassments? Like something to play when I got lost. Especially during worship session as playing the wrong notes would affect the moods of others.

practice until it's half memorize ... until u can actually ignore the notes, and start to look at other things ..... =)

 

[joashchee]

Unconciously, I practiced until I almost memorized the song...ALMOST...

Until my memory runs out and suddenly I found myself lost in the score and had to stop for a while. I think this irritate my bandmates. Maybe they think I didn't practice enough.

Thank God that my teacher has been patient with me getting lost. haha...

Anybody has advice to save me from such embarrassments? Like something to play when I got lost. Especially during worship session as playing the wrong notes would affect the moods of others.

I know I must have mentioned this until I think some people have grown tried of it, but I honestly believe that you can play at an instinctive level, be completely free of having to read scores, and really pay attention to the things that matter at that point, which in your case would be to coordinate with your bandmates.

Here's an analogy. When I was young, I was taught maths. I survived most of my educational years doing decently, getting the sums right. And then suddenly, someone tells me they're teaching a different approach to sums, using abacus.

The abacus method doesn't change the results you get. You still get the same sum problem and you're supposed to get the same answer. But from what I understand, those people drilled with the abacus method can do amazing mental sums that I'll never be able to do with the maths method I was taught when I was young.

The same thing applies to music theory. I believe that the theory you've been taught has allowed you to achieve the results as anyone would expect from regular music theory, but I'm here to introduce another alternative method that completely replaces the conventional theory method that allows your mind to work along certain paths that just makes your 'mental calculations' a lot quicker, almost appearing instinctive. The end results are the same, the mental process is radically different.

It's good that you mentioned 'worship session' since I'm currently training a christian musician. In just her 3rd hour with me, she did something that completely amazed her (and me to some extent). She played a new chord which I never taught her while sight-reading a new piece. Her fingers just felt like it was the right chord, and it was. She couldn't explain in her head, just that her fingers fell on the right notes.

The song that she was doing was not a simple one. It was a song that changes key from verse to chorus, and then changes back again. The keys were 'E' and 'B'. I think most people would agree that the key of 'B' is not a beginners key yet she's already sight-reading a piece that requires key change within the song and instinctively fingering chords already.

It's very possible to do amazing things if only you let go of old methods and try something alternative. ^_^

 

[pf]

thanks for the advertisment.

 

[joashchee]

thanks for the advertisment.

it's the simplest answer that I can give to your question. (^_^) At the end of the day, if people are willing to give a different method a try, they've nothing to lose. But well, we'll see how it is a year from now when I've been given a change to propogate it.

 

[Cheez]

The same thing applies to music theory. I believe that the theory you've been taught has allowed you to achieve the results as anyone would expect from regular music theory, but I'm here to introduce another alternative method that completely replaces the conventional theory method that allows your mind to work along certain paths that just makes your 'mental calculations' a lot quicker, almost appearing instinctive. The end results are the same, the mental process is radically different.

Joash, I would be careful to make a statement like "making mental calculations quicker" when comparing the "conventional method" and yours. If one had done grade 8 theory and above, and apply them, things can be very different. The methods depends on how a person thinks and learn. While a person may study well reading, another may do better by visual. Eveyone is different, and so methodologies suit different people. My ex-theory teacher (in his 60s now, I imagine) do the so-called "conventional" theory and harmony so fast that the music sings in his head using terribly complex chordal progressions.

 

[pf]

Right on, Cheez.

I found that I learn the most from discussion, applying and internalizing the concepts in my own way. That's why I like to come to SOFT. To discuss and learn from people who have the passion in music and share their knowledge to help others become better musicians.

The process is more than half the fun already! :-D

 

[joashchee]

the thing is, and as it was mentioned in other threads, most adults will not have the patience to wait till they get their grade 8 to see the results that are looking for.

So far, the adults that I've started teaching all appreciate the alternative they've been shown and go so far as to utterly persuade me to please secure my method and teaching tools by copyrights and patents because it is a double-edged sword. The methods are so simple to grasp that any student can teach them to another and see immediate results just after their first lesson with me. Simple is great for the student, not so great for the teacher that depends on it for their bread and butter.

That's the other reason why I am constrained for applying my method too blatantly in this forum since it will literally be endangering my own bottomline. Not that I don't want to help, but I have to be prudent about it too.

For those that are already set in their ways, that's fine by me. At least there's a way they can be rely on. But for those folks that have yet to discover a way for themselves, I hope they consider the fact I'm proposing, that there really is an alternative that replaces not complements the traditional methods for a particular set of results which might actually be less 'crippling' at the initial stages.

 

[Cheez]

Joash, I'm not trying to pour cold water. Just want a balanced view on this. I understand your methodology as it's very similar to the one I've been using and developed on my own. Firstly, there's no way to copyright it, as the methodology is not new. There are variations of it, depending on how one uses it. I teach it as well to keyboardists who wants to have an accelerated learning on improvisation. The roots are still in conventional theory. Anyone who has a deep grasp of theory will "automatically" apply this method in their heads - albeit with variations.

Secondly, one can only make a fair comparison if one has deep grasp of both methods and understands both well (both = "traditional" theory vs variations of the method you are describing). I'm no expert, but I have taught both higher grade theory and the so-called "unconventional" methods. And my conclusion is that the the new method is faster (very much faster), but how far it goes with a person will depend on that person. There is a plateau because the foundation is not there. In conventional theory, it is very much slower, and applying it also depends on individuals (people who has grade 8 does not mean they can apply it). But once a person grasp it deeply, the possibility of further developement is greater for that musician to both improvise and compose. The person will reach the plateau much later as the foundation provides greater opportunities for expandability.

I will recommend both. Sticking to one method has limitations. And one cannot say one method is superior to the other. Faster may be more convenient for some, but not necessary superior. The other thing is this: just like it's easier to swtich from classical piano to contemporary rather than the other way round, I feel it's easier for one to first pick up foundation of theory then switch to the newer methods. If it happens the other way round, the likelihood of that person mastering theory will be low as it messes up the foundations and confuses the rules (that person may have to re-learn everything).

Some of my thoughts....

 

[joashchee]

I guess at the end of the day, people will use whatever theory and mindset they are comfortable with and whichever they feel that they can achieve results with. that's their bottomline.

And Cheez is right about the limitations of methods. I'm just not so sure you really know everything I'm teaching. I'm not really just teaching numbers. What I have is really a set of thinking, rules and principles, applied on a foundation of seeing music purely only in numbers. The rules and principles I have allow players to do things like predictive playing (playing a song even if they've not heard it before, instantly). It's not just about forming chords and harmonizing and improvision. I teach how a person can look at a song DNA and straightaway know what needs to be done etc. And how 500+ songs can easily be at instant recall. And with predictive playing, you don't even working about spontaneous songs or those you've never heard before.. etc.

My uncle, just in his second lesson with me, is now utterly convinced that looking at music my way is preferred (for him) and wants to convert all his alphabet chords to numbers to fully benefit from it. He doesn't see the keys on the keyboard as discrete notes anymore.

But we've hijacked this thread quite a bit. Best to redirect the attention back to corrective practices.

 

[joashchee]

And it's not really just method. I have a physical device which can technically be patented. I don't see this particular device floating about in the open market and every student that I've given it to have been completely blown away by it.

Even in this day and age, people can still invent things. Not everything under the sun has been done. It's that faith in human genius that we must continue to have to know that we're progressing.

I've never wanted to claim that for myself because, like Cheez, I've been utterly convinced that everyone under the sun is using the method one way or another, and I've nothing unique.

But now that I'm doing this seriously, I find that not no one else seems to be pushing the envelope quite like I am. And the actual physical tool I've developed can definitely NOT be found in the market by my students even if they wanted to buy one. So I make it, and they tell me I should patent it. ^_^

 

[Cheez]

Yes Joash, I think I know your method by the description you have been giving us in your posts. There are variations to it. And you are right, no one is pushing for this method. But I can tell you that people are using it because the roots are still in theory. But no use pursuing down the track. I don't see chords as alphabets either - having been doing that for more than 10 years. Everything is viidim7+9b, IVM9, V/I etc etc. Again, using numbers or roman numerals are variations.

Let's get back to the topic.

 

[joashchee]

LOL, in my theory, we don't even acknowledge things like dim7. Once again, I do think you don't know the full picture but I'll grant that it's not unique in the sense that people probably use variations of it. It's just that I've yet to see a formalised set of teaching that have specific goals for the students to achieve.

My uncle's just finished his second session with me and is psyched that by the next session, he'll be playing a complete song with two hands and the sustain pedal, all with his eyes closed. I'm not sure about the folk you teach, but for my students who have no music background, that's something they really can appreciate. Especially when all they want to do with music is play for christian worship sessions.

Back to topic then.

 

[Cheez]

Sigh..... There's no point going round in circles. The argument goes both ways. Let's conclude that I don't know your method and you don't know my method. And congratulations on all your students who suceeded in playing keyboard with their eyes closed in such a short time. It's certainly wonderful and I hope the best for your endeavors!!!