Core Duo? Pentium 4? AMD?
- Thread starter qfactor
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MadWerewolfBoy
New member
i think value wise, intel beats AMD hands down currently...
blueprintstudios
New member
I still don't like AMD's heat problem.
the other day my power cable got caught in my CPU heat sink. suddenly I saw in the bios the temperature went to 100degrees, alarm rang, I turned off. shifted the power cable. and no damage , turned on the PC, monitored the temperature go from 90 to 45+ within 30 seconds.
stability/reliability is the key.
the other day my power cable got caught in my CPU heat sink. suddenly I saw in the bios the temperature went to 100degrees, alarm rang, I turned off. shifted the power cable. and no damage , turned on the PC, monitored the temperature go from 90 to 45+ within 30 seconds.
stability/reliability is the key.
gutturalpiss
New member
blueprintstudios, that is not the chip or HSF's fault. AMDs are generally superior when it comes to heat and temperature control, the power cable probably blocked proper thermal cycle.
If you talk about audio production, and u talk about processors, the main factor is how the processing itself is handled. Hence, going for a multi-core system. Well currently Intel definitely is the winner here when it comes to dual-core, quad-core I cannot say because AMD is introducing its line-up soon.
Until recently before Intel's 2nd to 3rd quarter's pricing plans (and new models) were revealed, AMD took the crown for the sub-$300 category. We will see more from Intel soon and it's safe to say for the time being, AMD does not have anything impressive to offer. For a company that came up with a revolutionary architecture (A64 and dual-core itself) and beat Intel's ass for quite a while, it is disappointing. Anyway look out for E4xxx series from Intel, very cheap. They will also have a much more cheaper offering, revival of the Pentium name and with dual-core architecture (similar to some notebook models with T2060 Core Duo).
However if u want a true workstation setup (not normal desktop for home recording, but atleast semi-professional), then nothing beats AMD's Opterons, not even Intel's Xeon line-up. Also, if u want single core (should not b an option if u want to produce audio) there is no point looking at Intel. AMD's single core series (Semprons and Athlon 64s) are the bombs.
If you talk about audio production, and u talk about processors, the main factor is how the processing itself is handled. Hence, going for a multi-core system. Well currently Intel definitely is the winner here when it comes to dual-core, quad-core I cannot say because AMD is introducing its line-up soon.
Until recently before Intel's 2nd to 3rd quarter's pricing plans (and new models) were revealed, AMD took the crown for the sub-$300 category. We will see more from Intel soon and it's safe to say for the time being, AMD does not have anything impressive to offer. For a company that came up with a revolutionary architecture (A64 and dual-core itself) and beat Intel's ass for quite a while, it is disappointing. Anyway look out for E4xxx series from Intel, very cheap. They will also have a much more cheaper offering, revival of the Pentium name and with dual-core architecture (similar to some notebook models with T2060 Core Duo).
However if u want a true workstation setup (not normal desktop for home recording, but atleast semi-professional), then nothing beats AMD's Opterons, not even Intel's Xeon line-up. Also, if u want single core (should not b an option if u want to produce audio) there is no point looking at Intel. AMD's single core series (Semprons and Athlon 64s) are the bombs.
Thanks for the update on the prices. Though it's not the price factor that I was referring to but more their functionality in audio applications - so that if I were looking at a PC with a P4 chip and another with an AMD, which could be expected to perform better in, say, playing back loops, using VST, recording audio in multi tracks?
Also, don't want to compare what's "going to" come out yet, as nobody's tested those and it's only a matter of opinion, but more some of your experiences you may have between the Pentiums and the AMD.
Thanks! :lol:
QF
Also, don't want to compare what's "going to" come out yet, as nobody's tested those and it's only a matter of opinion, but more some of your experiences you may have between the Pentiums and the AMD.
Thanks! :lol:
QF
gutturalpiss
New member
Don't look at Pentium 4, totally dead and useless. I get where ur coming from, but the processor can do only so much when it comes to audio production, it helps to have multiple cores to reduce stress during some instances especially for effects & multi-tracking (big help here) but for the rest of it the sound card gets more credit. So invest in a better sound card and monitors.
Cheez
Moderator
I beg to differ re: P4. No point going for it now as it is almost totally replaced by Core Duo. But that doesn't mean it is not useful, esp if you have one sitting around.
My 2.8GHz P4 (no hyperthreading) is still working very well. Full 160 notes polyphony with my Gigastudio 2.5, runs 50-60 midi tracks without any problems, gives me quite a number audio tracks and plug-ins simultanouesly etc.
Also make sure your DAW applications support the hardware. Not all support 64bit systems. A few considerations. I agree with gutturalpiss that not everything depends on the CPU. CPU is important for processing huge loads of stuff - ie when you have lots of plug-ins/effects. In multi-track recording, your HD speed is also important. In samples, both the HD speed (esp the seek time) and the RAM (determines number of samples that can be pre-loaded in sample streaming) are important. Monitors and graphic cards are the least important to DAW apps. Soundcard definitely key.
My 2.8GHz P4 (no hyperthreading) is still working very well. Full 160 notes polyphony with my Gigastudio 2.5, runs 50-60 midi tracks without any problems, gives me quite a number audio tracks and plug-ins simultanouesly etc.
Also make sure your DAW applications support the hardware. Not all support 64bit systems. A few considerations. I agree with gutturalpiss that not everything depends on the CPU. CPU is important for processing huge loads of stuff - ie when you have lots of plug-ins/effects. In multi-track recording, your HD speed is also important. In samples, both the HD speed (esp the seek time) and the RAM (determines number of samples that can be pre-loaded in sample streaming) are important. Monitors and graphic cards are the least important to DAW apps. Soundcard definitely key.
blueprintstudios
New member
well, I guess it's a matter of individual preference from here on. just that if I can afford a DAW i don't want to be playing guinea pig with the money and give AMD a try. just within my safety zone. heheh
gutturalpiss
New member
Cheez: No that's not what i meant, since TS is looking to buy a processor, better to tell him/her of better alternatives at the same price. The P4 was the biggest of Intel's failures and was replaced technically by AMD's Athlons quite some time ago, not only now by the Core architecture. Of course i say this only to point out value for money and the worth, not if one is using/has access to it already.
Should concentrate less on the CPU and more on the other hardware including what cheez mentioned - HDD (the more the merrier, 320GB is fair play and most have the fastest mainstream seek time), RAM (2GB recommended), Sound Card/Device. Since its a desktop and not a laptop, PCI would be the choice over USB or FireWire.
Should concentrate less on the CPU and more on the other hardware including what cheez mentioned - HDD (the more the merrier, 320GB is fair play and most have the fastest mainstream seek time), RAM (2GB recommended), Sound Card/Device. Since its a desktop and not a laptop, PCI would be the choice over USB or FireWire.
teraslasch
New member
actually u buy both also the same. u wont really notice a sh*t difference seriously :lol: . as long as yer com doesnt hang . ure good to go. u prolly wont notice any difference at all until u maximize its potential, which not many ppl do !
Cheez
Moderator
Watch out for HD size. Anything larger than 120GB should only be used for storage purposes. If they are used for heavy duty purposes that spins the drive frequently - eg sample streaming, you run into the danger of getting it damaged as the plate is quite thin compared to the smaller HD size.
I suggest having a few HDs. One for apps - Windwos and DAW. One for sample streaming and/or recording (note if you are using samples, then it should reside on a separate HD because it spins the HD extensively and will affect recording). One just for storage - this can be huge. Once a track is recorded, move the wav file there and so free up your recording HD.
However, the newer HD may be build differently.
I suggest having a few HDs. One for apps - Windwos and DAW. One for sample streaming and/or recording (note if you are using samples, then it should reside on a separate HD because it spins the HD extensively and will affect recording). One just for storage - this can be huge. Once a track is recorded, move the wav file there and so free up your recording HD.
However, the newer HD may be build differently.
blueprintstudios
New member
to check on other parts of the PC that makes up the "speed" is a little hard to decide :
hard disk speed = regardless of what storage what buffer, if speed is important might as well get a SCSI 10'000 rpm hdd ? but then again.. the cost is big time.. or maybe use 2 hard disk to RAID for the speed. I don't know. but it's better to use Serial ATA hard disk compared to Parallel ATA. (according to my experience findings, SATA hard disk generate less heat too! and HEAT = slowdown)
RAM = so what if we use the extra money to focus on ram? windows xp pro supports a maximum of 4gig ram, and get the highest ram speed possible. and spend a little extra to cover the ram with aluminium/copper cooler master heat sinks of some sort to boost "invisible difference". but probably makes your ram last longer.
CPU = AMD/Intel, either one is your own individual preference between chopsticks vs fork and spoon. (i'm a chopstick guy. teochew.)
Soundcard = latency etc etc etc. which one's right nowadays? everything claims itself to be low latency.find out yourself.
lastly, for those of you lazy bums on the computer who don't know how to maintain, start learning :
OS = defrag often, don't install nonsense. set your paging file memory right. use a disk-image capture software for fresh configurations. set your DAW settings right on the buffer etc.
Miscellaneous = if you're using a PC DAW to record, besides just focusing on the above speed thingy. do focus on PC stability too , core2duo's need high power, don't use your $70 stock casing with 400watts. usually play safe most C2D cpus need 450 watts, if not 400 watts and above + Truepower. meaning buying seperate power supplies from companies like cooler master / antec. and get a good mainboard because if you subject constant abuse to it (doing recording), you're going to blow the capacitors sooner or later. make sure ventilation is there. try not to smoke infront of the PC (believe me, you can tell 80% when a PC owner is a smoker by opening up the PC)
hope these tips help.
Cheez : at first i thought the same as you regarding HD size matter, but now my PC's running 250+320+320+320 gig hard disk, actually it's fine. probably the reason why it'll run slow is due to bad habits. when you get a huge @ss hdd space, you'll tend to save..and save and save. and almost lazy to clear / defrag. hahah.
70¢ worth
hard disk speed = regardless of what storage what buffer, if speed is important might as well get a SCSI 10'000 rpm hdd ? but then again.. the cost is big time.. or maybe use 2 hard disk to RAID for the speed. I don't know. but it's better to use Serial ATA hard disk compared to Parallel ATA. (according to my experience findings, SATA hard disk generate less heat too! and HEAT = slowdown)
RAM = so what if we use the extra money to focus on ram? windows xp pro supports a maximum of 4gig ram, and get the highest ram speed possible. and spend a little extra to cover the ram with aluminium/copper cooler master heat sinks of some sort to boost "invisible difference". but probably makes your ram last longer.
CPU = AMD/Intel, either one is your own individual preference between chopsticks vs fork and spoon. (i'm a chopstick guy. teochew.)
Soundcard = latency etc etc etc. which one's right nowadays? everything claims itself to be low latency.find out yourself.
lastly, for those of you lazy bums on the computer who don't know how to maintain, start learning :
OS = defrag often, don't install nonsense. set your paging file memory right. use a disk-image capture software for fresh configurations. set your DAW settings right on the buffer etc.
Miscellaneous = if you're using a PC DAW to record, besides just focusing on the above speed thingy. do focus on PC stability too , core2duo's need high power, don't use your $70 stock casing with 400watts. usually play safe most C2D cpus need 450 watts, if not 400 watts and above + Truepower. meaning buying seperate power supplies from companies like cooler master / antec. and get a good mainboard because if you subject constant abuse to it (doing recording), you're going to blow the capacitors sooner or later. make sure ventilation is there. try not to smoke infront of the PC (believe me, you can tell 80% when a PC owner is a smoker by opening up the PC)
hope these tips help.
Cheez : at first i thought the same as you regarding HD size matter, but now my PC's running 250+320+320+320 gig hard disk, actually it's fine. probably the reason why it'll run slow is due to bad habits. when you get a huge @ss hdd space, you'll tend to save..and save and save. and almost lazy to clear / defrag. hahah.
70¢ worth
Cheez
Moderator
blueprintstudios, can you help me to confirm whether the life-span of large HD is the same as smaller ones (ie >120GB compared to <120GB)? I'm not so much concerned about the speed - as it should not change much. Because I'm using softsamplers which streams samples directly off the HD, the concern many has is the thin plate of these HD that tends to wear out and die. Sample streaming is worse than multi-track editing/playback/recording. The HD is constanly spinning non-stop and GBs sectors.
I hope the newer drives are better. If so, I'll upgrade my HD as I'm running out of space (I'm using 120GB for samples).
I hope the newer drives are better. If so, I'll upgrade my HD as I'm running out of space (I'm using 120GB for samples).
gutturalpiss
New member
It is true that constant HDD activity is bad for the device, but nowadays the materials they are made up of are better than what we used to have 3 years ago. Simply speaking, other than SCSI drives (too expensive even for semi-professional use, they are used mostly in big corporate servers. I have one old 10GB from the days of SGI and it is still pretty good), the mainstream HDDs of today are steady and can handle stress very well. Just remember that HDD clicks = bad. Listen closely for these random clicks even during inactivity. Most HDDs are SATA-II now, and RAID 0 or 1 depending on whether u want more performance or safety (in that case get a raid controller, software raid won't be that reliable).
RAMs, u don't need the fancy ones with heatsinks. Those are for enthusiasts, hardware nuts & overclockers. Before DDR2, latency was a big issue. It seems now the raw clock speed of these new modules have surpassed a stage where latency is less of a concern. DDR3 is in already, and the speeds are now well beyond 1GHz. For audio production, just look out for the size that is all. If u want beyond 4GB, workstation motherboards are the ones ur looking for (so u gotta get workstation processors = Intel Xeon or AMD Opteron) since they will give u about 16GB. That is overkill for a DAW.
True, motherboard = must be stable. Stability = original ones, like Intel original for Intel CPUs or Nvidia's series for AMD. Enthusiast boards are not what u should be looking at. PSU, Cooler Master's Real Power 450 is an example of a good power supply. Antec has always been reliable, but cost slightly more.
RAMs, u don't need the fancy ones with heatsinks. Those are for enthusiasts, hardware nuts & overclockers. Before DDR2, latency was a big issue. It seems now the raw clock speed of these new modules have surpassed a stage where latency is less of a concern. DDR3 is in already, and the speeds are now well beyond 1GHz. For audio production, just look out for the size that is all. If u want beyond 4GB, workstation motherboards are the ones ur looking for (so u gotta get workstation processors = Intel Xeon or AMD Opteron) since they will give u about 16GB. That is overkill for a DAW.
True, motherboard = must be stable. Stability = original ones, like Intel original for Intel CPUs or Nvidia's series for AMD. Enthusiast boards are not what u should be looking at. PSU, Cooler Master's Real Power 450 is an example of a good power supply. Antec has always been reliable, but cost slightly more.
blueprintstudios
New member
cheez :
"can you help me to confirm whether the life-span of large HD is the same as smaller ones"
haha , man how am I to answer that?, i'll have to get back to you in 4 years time. still under warranty. well as far as I've experienced , PATA 80gb/120 gig harddisks around there probably last around 3/4 years till they start giving the click o death. so far the 200gb PATA ones I've used hasn't given way yet, so this could mean one thing, their time's not up or they're better made as we head into this day and age.
actually what I can suggest is , if your samples take up 160gig and you really wanna play it safe,
1) back up your samples in 2 copies of DVDs. (2 dvds a day, will take you a month) 74 DVDS.. 100 DVD stack costs $50 now.imation
2) buy one 160gig seagate SATA2 (yes seagate cos 5 years warranty)
3) copy the 120gig > 160gig (Seagate) , choose to abuse either one.
4) for the next 5 years until the seagate one gives way, hdd replacement is no problem. 120gig use it for backup also can.
------------
guttural piss :
yes, sometimes these clicks of death are very unpredictable. I still had my "Connor" branded hard disk 280MB ! and still working great. but I have NO idea what to do with it. cos CDrs store 680mb. sometimes the older hard disk outlast the new ones. it's just a matter of fate.
last time my ram burns out often, thats why I started using heat sinks. I guess it's just a sense of security. but it's okay now. no burnouts.-V
I'm using an Antec True Power 2.0 480W. heavy as hell, but so far runs super stable with my Asus P5B-V mainboard. so you can't go wrong when you use a stable power supply / good mainboard. I got sick of MSI mainboards . broke down on me all the time.
"can you help me to confirm whether the life-span of large HD is the same as smaller ones"
haha , man how am I to answer that?, i'll have to get back to you in 4 years time. still under warranty. well as far as I've experienced , PATA 80gb/120 gig harddisks around there probably last around 3/4 years till they start giving the click o death. so far the 200gb PATA ones I've used hasn't given way yet, so this could mean one thing, their time's not up or they're better made as we head into this day and age.
actually what I can suggest is , if your samples take up 160gig and you really wanna play it safe,
1) back up your samples in 2 copies of DVDs. (2 dvds a day, will take you a month) 74 DVDS.. 100 DVD stack costs $50 now.imation
2) buy one 160gig seagate SATA2 (yes seagate cos 5 years warranty)
3) copy the 120gig > 160gig (Seagate) , choose to abuse either one.
4) for the next 5 years until the seagate one gives way, hdd replacement is no problem. 120gig use it for backup also can.
------------
guttural piss :
yes, sometimes these clicks of death are very unpredictable. I still had my "Connor" branded hard disk 280MB ! and still working great. but I have NO idea what to do with it. cos CDrs store 680mb. sometimes the older hard disk outlast the new ones. it's just a matter of fate.
last time my ram burns out often, thats why I started using heat sinks. I guess it's just a sense of security. but it's okay now. no burnouts.-V
I'm using an Antec True Power 2.0 480W. heavy as hell, but so far runs super stable with my Asus P5B-V mainboard. so you can't go wrong when you use a stable power supply / good mainboard. I got sick of MSI mainboards . broke down on me all the time.
blueprintstudios
New member
then the ones that can be used on another HD just transfer the samples there lor. share the load.
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