Chopin's Fantaisie-Impromptu in C-sharp minor Op. 66

[DoubleBlade]

Oh I want to pick up as many techniques of classical music as possible so that I can apply it to my compositions.

Stuff like Bach's "4 melody in 2 stalves thingy. Is that the 2 keyboard invention or something? , Liszt's 2 handed octave chromatics , Scarlatti's use of dissonant chords whereby some of the notes in the chord are foreign to the harmony etc

 

[Cheez]

Bach wrote 2 and 3 part inventions.

As for quality, it's a natural progression if there's a lot of pianists out there wanting to be teachers. Also, grades unfortunately does not equate to quality of teaching. There's an obvious association, but teaching is another skill-set.

As for learning classical piano for compositions, are you thinking of writing piano pieces? If not, you can actually spend more time focusing on composition techniques and theory rather than playing. Of course, if you are going to write piano pieces, you'll need the playing techniques. Many can play, but does not mean they can compose.

 

[piano_ex]

wuaa .. so many repliez already =)

bach's style of writing is called fugal writing, or as counterpoint. where 2 or more independent melody is interweaved together.... it's easy to learn the rules but to make a good one is hard .... i got 1 year of that thing ..... lolx ... easier to pass than traditional harmony though ... 2 part invention only have 2 melody, 3 part invention have 3 melody .... fugue can have from 3 to 5 ... or actually u can write for more melody if u able .... =)

cheez, each year has different number ... my batch have around 20 pianist, ranging from very good, good, struggling to graduate .... =P

at the topic of saturation of piano teacher, i'm very concernet about this. There are so many bad piano teacher compared to the good ones. Maybe it sounds exaggarating but it could be 70-80% bad teacher to 20-30% good teacher ...

Apparently now , music schools are doing more quality control and becoming more meritocratic. Gone are the days where any tom dick and harry grade 8 cert holder can land themselves a teaching job in music schools. My piano teacher told me that now music schools are imposing policies when hiring music teachers. You get a pass for grade 8 , 45% of your hourly pay goes back to the school , you get a merit for grade 8 , 25% of your hourly pay goes back to the school and if you get a distinction for grade 8 , you get 100% of your hourly pay. It's something like that lah....

The system itself sounds that it wants to do something, but i don't think it will do any difference, because they still hire all those teacher .... and in the end, there will be students stuck with that "pass" teacher.

and the number are very wrong.... it's not possible for 45%, 25%, and 100% being the most ridiculous ... how the school make money and survive?

The standard in singapore is
Grade 8 - most probably u'll get only 40-45% of the hourly pay
Dip Associate - around 45-55%
Dip Licentiate - around 55-65%

the most that i've seen for a teacher in music school is 65% with a diploma in music. (my friend)

The trend of hiring grade 8 piano to teach classical piano is VERY wrong ...
you need at least a Licentiate or a Degree holder to teach piano correctly.
How you expect that a grade 8 piano student, some of them even only practice 3 exam pieces for the whole year .... to know about teaching piano?

I know 1 lady, she came to my friend .... (both me and my friend are piano teachers ..... or actually, he is ... i was ... not anymore ....) she is a full time piano teacher in 1 music school .... salary can get 1.8 to 2k .... and SHE CAN'T EVEN PLAY THE 1st exercise in Czerny Op 740 properly after 6 months playing it under my friend ..... (my friend is frustrated and actually prefers if that lady leave him alone .....) And when she come to my friend, she doesn't even know how to pedal properly ..... How will this result in her student??

i dare to say 100% will become teachers, because ... even the most successful performers that has record many album .... will also teach =) ..... if it's not for the money ... it's for the continuation of tradition, if u don't teach what u know .. then the tradition will eventually stop .... hehehehe

btw chamois, most piano music are soft is not correct as a statement =) ..... really .... i can tell u many many many loud piano pieces .... btw, i play Liszt Mephisto Waltz no 1 for my graduation recital last week .... fun!! .. hahaha

 

[DoubleBlade]

I'm learning the Prelude and Fugue in A flat major now. It has 4 melodies altogether. 2 for treble and 2 for bass. I can expect playing with both hands a real hassle and would require loads of practice.

Yeah I intend to compose piano pieces with arrangements but then I felt that it would be a waste if I were not to pick up classical styles of playing while learning classical pieces. I don't know but to me , I see it as an opportunity to grab whatever styles of playing employed by the composers and try to incorporate them in my compositions. I don't intend to be a performer but rather try to work towards being a composer.

Piano_ex : I could not remember the exact percentage but it just had something to do with the higher grades = less % of your pay goes back to the music school , hence we're talking about meritocracy here.

 

[KAI]

Nowadays learning music become very common as compared to ten or twenty years ago. As the demand of music teachers increase, it is natural that more people go into teaching music.

Will piano teachers become saturated? That is hard to say. But I think it is a good sign that more and more parents willing to let their children have music education at a very young age.

Good teachers will tends to get more students than bad teachers. And bad teachers naturally need to improve themselves if they still want to remain as music teacher.

As more and more children get their music education at very young age, it also means that the higher chance that some of them become very outstanding musicians next time.
This is very good for the development of local music scene.

 

[teraslasch]

sorry hor. the sad truth is, YOUNG KIDS DON KNOW WADS BAD AND GOOD PIANO TEACHER. and the parents will prollly just stick with the current teacher until something "bad" happens o.o . man.. i can just remember HOW BAD my piano teacher was when i was young. so much until i hated music. wad kinda stupid teacher is that.. the standard for most piano teacher is jsut. 3 pieces per year for exam. come on, ure not even learning music, fked up. and forcing a kid to play and even beating him/her is never gonna help. FKD UP TEACHER. i cant believe i din even know wad a chord was up till sec 1 (grade 5 prac/theory). i quitted piano since i hated it so much back then. i took up some pop lessons and in less than a few months i already knew how songs were actually made. The ABRSM syllabus is totally crapped. c r a p p e d . doesnt teach u music. teaches u how to memrozie ur theory and how to be a robot pianist

 

[jamesbond007]

you got to blame the Singapore system as well,
how the PAP Singapore education systems brought
most of us up.

all follow the book, and all go by papers.
no papers, no can do.

wat is tis?

 

[Cheez]

That's true about the fugue. I forgot about that. My - Bach's prelude and fugue sounds like something in my ancient past! Fun though. Anywhow, writing counterpoint is more than knowing how to play counterpoint. And I find orchestral counterpoint more exciting than piano - in terms of writing that is!

Anyway, interesting how this thread is turning out.

Yes, it sounds scary if a piano teacher can't even pedal, or play Czerny.

But tera, exams are never meant to teach. They are assessments. Don't talk about ABRSM. Just talk about O or A levels or even degrees. They don't teach either. We can say the same for any other vocations other than music teachers or musicians. I believe in the end, it's up to the person to apply it. Of course, a good teacher will help a lot.

This thread is getting me motivated again. Just took out my Debussy yesterday and started practicing.

And yes, I agree Grade 8 is not good enough to teach. But then I've seen licentiates who can't teach either.... To teach, there must first be skills. That's why I think Grade 8 is insufficient. However, teaching is more than having degrees or dips. There are many teachers in our educational system - not all of them are good teachers. Teaching requires a different skill-set of transfering what you know to somebody else. And it requires something even more - the passion to teach.

Pianoex, you mentioned you are no longer teaching. What are you doing now? Curious.

 

[DoubleBlade]

Playing each hand individually is easy but wait till you combine both hands together and that's where the headache starts to set in.

I'm gonna start trying playing a few bars of it in both hands on Tuesday and see what comes out of it! Actually I intend to practice tomorrow lah but then.....then....then.....TOMORROW IS THE LAUNCH OF THE HOTTEST PC GAME OF THE YEAR...so yeah I think I'm gonna buy the game and play it for the whole night tomorrow. Sad eh? :lol:

 

[DoubleBlade]

And also I can also pick out several topics of discussion discussed here which can be used to formed new discussion threads.

1) Your definition of a good/bad piano teacher?

2) Why do parents force their kids to take up music? Is is good for the child in a long run?

3) Saturation of music teachers in Singapore , what is your take?

 

[piano_ex]

ahahaha, looks like for doubleblade ... the game beats practicing ... =)

i was teaching when i was still in my first year and 2nd year of so called diploma + 1 year degree in piano performance .... after 2 years of teaching .... something happened with the admin of the school, and they blame me and accused me for something i did not do .... so i submitted my resignation letter .... =P

then ..... wondering for other part time job .....

first trying out cuz got 1 singer/guitarist, violinist, in need of pianist to play in 5 star hotel .... we were in quite a good state after audition .... they were interested in us .. but they were asking for a percussionist .... in the end, we didn't get the percussionist and nor the job ..... actually i left for my home country for holiday before the matter finished ... so i didn't know what happened actually =P

then after that ... for 4 months since december ... i got offered to play for ballet class and exam ... so i did .... =) .. and it's just finished ....

and it's so in time with my graduation ..... so now i'm jobless, school-less ...

and most probably will go cristofori to teach full time .... the only way to survive .... ....

 

[DoubleBlade]

Hmmmm....where are you from? Malaysia? Indonesia?

Cause I saw your myspace account and since your surname is "Ong" , you must be from some country around the region right?

Anyways I think I'm starting to fall in love with Bach's prelude and fugue in Ab major. His melodies sound so "melodically unique". :lol:

 

[piano_ex]

ahahahaha ... u r correct!! =)

i'm from indonesia ......

yesh!! i love ALL BACH's 48 prelude and fugue!!! ....
Bach's music is heavenly ...... ho ho ho

 

[junbin]

A little help

Been reading this thread and thought I could post some qns here since everyone sounds v.expert!

I've stopped piano for about 4 yrs and want to pick it up again to finish up my Dip with LCM but... it seems I've been playing the 'wrong' way all these years. My new pieces require quick octave runs at sF (beethoven's waldstein) and after about a half-hour practice my right arm is too tired to strike any key accurately, much less at SF.

Help! [I have a piano teacher, but she's only gd at pointing out mistakes but not very good at technique.]

I found this: http://wingtek.net/musicreform/files/piano01.html
Can anyone tell me if its any good?

Piano_ex -- one of the pieces i'm learning is Bach's prelude & fugue in Bb... gorgeous piece, deceptively easy but difficult to master! Any tips?

Keeping to the thread title -- I can only play Fantasie Impromptu page 1, haha.

 

[DoubleBlade]

Well I'm currently learning Bach's prelude and fugue in Ab major. One thing my teacher pointed out about the fugue is that , you have to be practice your left and right melodies separately. Do not attempt to straight away play with both hands not even for 1 bar. Practice your left and right hand melodies separately until you become very familar with it.

Because once you are very familar with playing your left and right hand melodies separately , learning to play both hands together won't be so much of a hag as compared to jumping the gun and attempting to play it with both hands.

Bach's fugues pieces look easy on an outer shell , but when you start to get your hands dirty on the piece , it's not that easy.

Playing a melody with only one hand never felt so good until Bach came into the picture. Even if the fugue is played in one hand , to me it still sounds as beautiful.

Oh and perhaps you could post up a separate topic on the forum with regards to the website you have shown? Its quite interesting no doubt....

 

[piano_ex]

about the Bach, it's actually correct, but in a way ... straight away playing it doesn't really count as more difficult to play, because if u just want to play it ... u can just sighread it ...

but the use of practicing the melody separately is at first to know and be familiar with the melody, so that each melody can be played as a melody .... so instead of 1 melody with accompaniment (which will happen usually if u just straight away play it without knowing that there is more than 1 melody) we play it with independence of melody ... the ability to bring out whichever melody we want .. =)

as for the octave runs, be extra careful with that, because first, u haven't been playing for 4 years ... resulting of your muscle wasn't in your top condition to play ... .. erm .. actually it's quite hard to help you without seeing you doing the octave ...

are you pushing the keys and make your hand or finger stiff?? .... it could be the cause .... have you tried to relaxed your arm, finger ... and bounce it for the octave?

 

[DoubleBlade]

Siah lahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Piano_expert can sightread Bach's Prelude and Fugues! 8O :lol:

NO SACARISM INVOLVED MY FRIEND.

 

[bongman]

wah lau, long time never sight-read liao
after play by ear for a while...

sight read Bach 48 !? Wow!

 

[piano_ex]

lolx ..... of course not near perfect sightread laah .... ( but amazingly, my head of keyboard study's sightreading skills is SOOO good .... she can sightread it so well ...damn .... =P )

btw .... dun spell my name wrongly laaar ... it's piano_ex ... not piano expert

=)