Change Key
- Thread starter NewGuy
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turbochicken
New member
in what context?
DoubleBlade
New member
Lets say the song is in C major and then during certain parts of the song you may have to change the key of the song by say changing from C major to G major for example...
To change key , you'll need to know your scales pretty well especially the number of sharps or flats in a given scale.
To change key , you'll need to know your scales pretty well especially the number of sharps or flats in a given scale.
DoubleBlade
New member
well basically , all chords fall into a scale. Because chords originate from scales. Scales are a series of notes in accending or decending order. Just like your "Do , Rae , Me , Fa , So , La , Ti , Do".
So if you're required to change key , you certainly can play chords but you must know which chords fall into that particular scale that you're about to change.
So if you're required to change key , you certainly can play chords but you must know which chords fall into that particular scale that you're about to change.
iansoh
Moderator
well basically, it means to go into the key of E, u should hit a chord B before that.
to go into key of A, u hit an E, or E7.
to go into key of D, u hit an A (or A7)
to go into key of G, u hit a D ...
to go into key of C, u hit a G ...
the wheel shows the chord to play first, then the next letter is the new key. applies for both major and minor keys. however, the special transition chord is seldom a minor 7th, as long as u think it sounds nice, like usually in r&b that effect will sound nice. if not, just play the normal 7th chord(NOT the jazzy-sounding maj7 chord unless u're playing drum'nbass or dub or something.)
to go into key of A, u hit an E, or E7.
to go into key of D, u hit an A (or A7)
to go into key of G, u hit a D ...
to go into key of C, u hit a G ...
the wheel shows the chord to play first, then the next letter is the new key. applies for both major and minor keys. however, the special transition chord is seldom a minor 7th, as long as u think it sounds nice, like usually in r&b that effect will sound nice. if not, just play the normal 7th chord(NOT the jazzy-sounding maj7 chord unless u're playing drum'nbass or dub or something.)
penta-tonic
New member
i think this is in the wrong forum.
iansoh
Moderator
the transition chord is in the key of the new key. that's why it can effectively lead u into the new key.
this is a certain chord progression called the "perfect cadence". a perfect cadence is when you have a 5-1 progression. e.g, B-E, or G-C.
1 is the new key, so 5 will be the transition chord. e.g, if E is the new key, then E is 1, and the transition chord will be 5 notes up, that is, B, or B7 or B9 etc. similarly, if Bflat is the new key, then the transition chord will be 5 notes up: F, and so forth.
according to classical theory of music, perfect cadences are theoretically, the "nice" or "proper" way to resolve a chord progression. usually chord progressions end on the chord 1 of the key. e.g: if the key is in E, the last chord of the chorus or verse(less often) usually will be an E. and the chord before ending on the E will also usually be a B, or B7. go and listen to some songs, those with more standard chord progressions, such as chinese pop, u will notice this(though there are also exceptions when the arranger chose not to adopt it)
applying this concept, this is how the wheel, or circle of fifths or whatever u want to call it, was derived(or at least that's how i think it was derived).
BEADGC -
1) B-E is a 5-1 progression where B is 5 and E is 1.
2) E-A is also a 5-1 progression, where E is now 5, and A is the new 1.
3) A-D; where A now becomes the 5, and D is the new key, the 1.
and so forth.
do u understand better now?
this is a certain chord progression called the "perfect cadence". a perfect cadence is when you have a 5-1 progression. e.g, B-E, or G-C.
1 is the new key, so 5 will be the transition chord. e.g, if E is the new key, then E is 1, and the transition chord will be 5 notes up, that is, B, or B7 or B9 etc. similarly, if Bflat is the new key, then the transition chord will be 5 notes up: F, and so forth.
according to classical theory of music, perfect cadences are theoretically, the "nice" or "proper" way to resolve a chord progression. usually chord progressions end on the chord 1 of the key. e.g: if the key is in E, the last chord of the chorus or verse(less often) usually will be an E. and the chord before ending on the E will also usually be a B, or B7. go and listen to some songs, those with more standard chord progressions, such as chinese pop, u will notice this(though there are also exceptions when the arranger chose not to adopt it)
applying this concept, this is how the wheel, or circle of fifths or whatever u want to call it, was derived(or at least that's how i think it was derived).
BEADGC -
1) B-E is a 5-1 progression where B is 5 and E is 1.
2) E-A is also a 5-1 progression, where E is now 5, and A is the new 1.
3) A-D; where A now becomes the 5, and D is the new key, the 1.
and so forth.
do u understand better now?
iansoh
Moderator
and as for what chords belong in what key: i think it should be rephrased as "what chords u can get out of a particular key".
and well, u have pretty much every chord of every note. take for example:
C major scale: C D E F G A B
from the C note, u can get C major, comprised of the notes C,E,G.
from the D note, u can get D minor, comprised of the notes D,F,A
from E, u get E minor
from F, u get F major
G - G major
A - A minor
B - Bdim#6b4add1028 no i'm just kidding. the seventh chord of the scale is usually not used by itself for reasons i cannot remember. however u can derive other complex chords from the B such as G7 first inversion(comprised of B,D,F,G). but maybe this can be saved for another day.
so basically u write out the notes of all the other scales, and u'll derive the corresponding chords of that scale.
how to derive: the most basic of chords comprises of 1,3,5.
e.g in the C major scale: C D E F G A B, where C is 1, D is 2, E is 3 etc..
7th chords are a slightly different story. can get a little confusing, so i think i'll just leave it here for now.
and well, u have pretty much every chord of every note. take for example:
C major scale: C D E F G A B
from the C note, u can get C major, comprised of the notes C,E,G.
from the D note, u can get D minor, comprised of the notes D,F,A
from E, u get E minor
from F, u get F major
G - G major
A - A minor
B - Bdim#6b4add1028 no i'm just kidding. the seventh chord of the scale is usually not used by itself for reasons i cannot remember. however u can derive other complex chords from the B such as G7 first inversion(comprised of B,D,F,G). but maybe this can be saved for another day.
so basically u write out the notes of all the other scales, and u'll derive the corresponding chords of that scale.
how to derive: the most basic of chords comprises of 1,3,5.
e.g in the C major scale: C D E F G A B, where C is 1, D is 2, E is 3 etc..
7th chords are a slightly different story. can get a little confusing, so i think i'll just leave it here for now.
noisyguitar
New member
very insightful
thanks for that ian
thanks for that ian
Hm...
I only take it as a references or guideline.
Normally when I change key, as long as it sound smooth to me,
I don't quite bother about the rule, as it will restrict the idea of song arrangement.
NewGuy,
The BEADGC is a basic of changing keys.
you have to at least understand it before try other methods.
ian,
Thanks dude...
Enrich my knowledge...
I only take it as a references or guideline.
Normally when I change key, as long as it sound smooth to me,
I don't quite bother about the rule, as it will restrict the idea of song arrangement.
NewGuy,
The BEADGC is a basic of changing keys.
you have to at least understand it before try other methods.
ian,
Thanks dude...
Enrich my knowledge...
Cheez
Moderator
Excellent iansoh.
Mingguan is also correct - what sounds good to the ears is usually correct. We have rules, but rules are guidelines in real life.
Basic rule, as iansoh mentioned, is to use the 5th chord of the new key as a transition chord. However, this is usually creates a "rough" transition (particularly the 7th chord). Won't go into detail (otherwise too complicated), but one way to have a smoother transition is to use the IV/V chord of the original key, then the IV/V chord the new key, then the root chord of the new key. Eg: to modulate from C to D major - C - F/G - G/A - D. G/A is smoother because the notes in the G chord belongs to the notes in C major. A chord has a C# - which does not belong to C major and therefore sounds harsher when transitioning.
There are lots of other ways to modulate - this is one of the most basic methods. Experiment modulating to keys of different intervals. My favourite is modulating up a minor 3rd (eg C to E flat major) - can easily go into the 5th chord of the new key directly without an extra chord. Up a minor second is also interesting (eg C to D flat major) - there are some interesting ways to do that. The further the interval of modulation from the original key, the more care one need to take to ensure a smooth modulation.
In the end - what sounds nice is good enough.
Mingguan is also correct - what sounds good to the ears is usually correct. We have rules, but rules are guidelines in real life.
Basic rule, as iansoh mentioned, is to use the 5th chord of the new key as a transition chord. However, this is usually creates a "rough" transition (particularly the 7th chord). Won't go into detail (otherwise too complicated), but one way to have a smoother transition is to use the IV/V chord of the original key, then the IV/V chord the new key, then the root chord of the new key. Eg: to modulate from C to D major - C - F/G - G/A - D. G/A is smoother because the notes in the G chord belongs to the notes in C major. A chord has a C# - which does not belong to C major and therefore sounds harsher when transitioning.
There are lots of other ways to modulate - this is one of the most basic methods. Experiment modulating to keys of different intervals. My favourite is modulating up a minor 3rd (eg C to E flat major) - can easily go into the 5th chord of the new key directly without an extra chord. Up a minor second is also interesting (eg C to D flat major) - there are some interesting ways to do that. The further the interval of modulation from the original key, the more care one need to take to ensure a smooth modulation.
In the end - what sounds nice is good enough.
iansoh
Moderator
anytime, guys.
cheez, so whats your fav method of transposing the minor 3rd?
the most common method of transposing the minor 2nd is simply to play the 5, followed by the new 5. a nice big rousing feeling, great for church music. haha.
the american idol series that's just over had quite some songs with kickass arrangements that sported key changes. some so smooth u'd hardly notice it. go download mp3s from official website www.idolonfox.com
cheez, so whats your fav method of transposing the minor 3rd?
the most common method of transposing the minor 2nd is simply to play the 5, followed by the new 5. a nice big rousing feeling, great for church music. haha.
the american idol series that's just over had quite some songs with kickass arrangements that sported key changes. some so smooth u'd hardly notice it. go download mp3s from official website www.idolonfox.com
Cheez
Moderator
Up a minor 2nd- depends on the chord before the modulation. But I usually go straight into the 5th chord of the new key. Example: from C to Db major - instead of G - C - G - Ab (modulating) - D flat, I would: G - Ab7 - Gb/Ab (2 beats) - Ab (2 beats) (modulating) - Db, assuming a 4/4 time. Ab7 has C and G, both in the key of C and so makes the modulation smoother.
Another of my favourite minor 2nd modulation is moving the bass down chromatically from the root of the original key to the 5th of the new key (IV/V of course). Hard to explain by words...
And of course, can just go straight from the root of the original to the root of the new key - no modulating/ transitioning chord.
Still many other ways...
I mentioned minor 3rd is my favourite - sorry, mistake. Minor 2nd is my favourite! It is also the most common transition in a song.
Modulation and chords progression follow one important guideline - minimal movement between the notes, use common notes between the 2 progressions, thereby trying to make it as smooth as possible. Only a general guideline. Sometimes one may want a to acheive and harsher modulation.
Another of my favourite minor 2nd modulation is moving the bass down chromatically from the root of the original key to the 5th of the new key (IV/V of course). Hard to explain by words...
And of course, can just go straight from the root of the original to the root of the new key - no modulating/ transitioning chord.
Still many other ways...
I mentioned minor 3rd is my favourite - sorry, mistake. Minor 2nd is my favourite! It is also the most common transition in a song.
Modulation and chords progression follow one important guideline - minimal movement between the notes, use common notes between the 2 progressions, thereby trying to make it as smooth as possible. Only a general guideline. Sometimes one may want a to acheive and harsher modulation.
I found these from a book.
Just for reference.
C major to C minor
|C---|F---|C---|F-Am-|C---|Gsus4---|G7---|Cm---|
C major to Db(C#) major
|C---|Fm---|Gb-Ab-|Db---| or
|C---|Cdim7---|Ab7---|Dd---|
C major to D major
|C---|G---|Gm-D-|A7-D-| or
|C---|F-Dm-|C---|F-Dm-|Em---|G---|A---|D---| or
|F(IV)---|G---|C---|Cmaj7---|A---|A7---|D---|D---|G(IV)~
|C---|Em---|F---|Dm-G-|D~
C major to D minor
|F(IV)---|G---|C---|Cmaj7---|A---|A7---|D---|Dm--|G(IV)~
C major to Eb major
|C---|Dm---|Bdim7(Ddim7)---|Eb---| or
|C---|Fm---|Bb---|Eb---| or
C major to A major
|C---|Dm-D-|E-E7|A---| or
|C---|G---|Dm-A-|E7-A-| or
|F(IV)---|Fmaj7---|C---|Cmaj7---|E---|E7---|A---|A---|D(IV)~ or
|C---|F---|Dm---|A---|
C major to E major
|C---|Am---|A-E-|B7-E-| or
|C---|F---|Am---|E---| or
|C---|Cdim7---|B7---|E---|
C major to F major
|C---|Am---|C7---|F---| or
|C---|Cmaj7---|C7---|F---||
C major to F minor
|C---|Am---|C7---|Fm---|
C major to G major
|C---|Am---|C---|D7---|G---| or
|F(IV)---|F or F7---|C---|C or C7---|D---|D or D7---|G---|G or G7---|C(IV)~ or
|F(IV)---|F or F7---|C---|C or C7---|D---|D or D7---|F---|G7---|C(IV)~ or
|F(IV)---|F7---|C---|C7---|F---|Em---|E7---|G---|C(IV)~ or
|C---|Cmaj7|D---|D7---|G---|Gmaj7---|A7---|D7-G7-| or
|C---|Cdim7---|D7---|G---|
C major to G minor
|F(IV)---|F---|C---|Am---|D---|D---|Gm---|Gm7-G7-|C(IV)~
C major to Ab major
|C---|Fm---|Eb---|Ab---|
C major to A minor
|F(IV)---|Fmaj7---|C---|Cmaj7---|E---|E7---|A---|Am--|D(IV)~
C major to Bb major
|C---|Am---|C---|F---|F7---|Bb---|Eb-F-|Bb---| or
|C---|Cdim7---|F7---|Bb---|
C major to Bb minor
|C---|Am---|C---|F---|F7---|Bbm---|Ebm-F-|Bbm---|
C major to B major
|C---|F---|Em---|B---|
Just for reference.
C major to C minor
|C---|F---|C---|F-Am-|C---|Gsus4---|G7---|Cm---|
C major to Db(C#) major
|C---|Fm---|Gb-Ab-|Db---| or
|C---|Cdim7---|Ab7---|Dd---|
C major to D major
|C---|G---|Gm-D-|A7-D-| or
|C---|F-Dm-|C---|F-Dm-|Em---|G---|A---|D---| or
|F(IV)---|G---|C---|Cmaj7---|A---|A7---|D---|D---|G(IV)~
|C---|Em---|F---|Dm-G-|D~
C major to D minor
|F(IV)---|G---|C---|Cmaj7---|A---|A7---|D---|Dm--|G(IV)~
C major to Eb major
|C---|Dm---|Bdim7(Ddim7)---|Eb---| or
|C---|Fm---|Bb---|Eb---| or
C major to A major
|C---|Dm-D-|E-E7|A---| or
|C---|G---|Dm-A-|E7-A-| or
|F(IV)---|Fmaj7---|C---|Cmaj7---|E---|E7---|A---|A---|D(IV)~ or
|C---|F---|Dm---|A---|
C major to E major
|C---|Am---|A-E-|B7-E-| or
|C---|F---|Am---|E---| or
|C---|Cdim7---|B7---|E---|
C major to F major
|C---|Am---|C7---|F---| or
|C---|Cmaj7---|C7---|F---||
C major to F minor
|C---|Am---|C7---|Fm---|
C major to G major
|C---|Am---|C---|D7---|G---| or
|F(IV)---|F or F7---|C---|C or C7---|D---|D or D7---|G---|G or G7---|C(IV)~ or
|F(IV)---|F or F7---|C---|C or C7---|D---|D or D7---|F---|G7---|C(IV)~ or
|F(IV)---|F7---|C---|C7---|F---|Em---|E7---|G---|C(IV)~ or
|C---|Cmaj7|D---|D7---|G---|Gmaj7---|A7---|D7-G7-| or
|C---|Cdim7---|D7---|G---|
C major to G minor
|F(IV)---|F---|C---|Am---|D---|D---|Gm---|Gm7-G7-|C(IV)~
C major to Ab major
|C---|Fm---|Eb---|Ab---|
C major to A minor
|F(IV)---|Fmaj7---|C---|Cmaj7---|E---|E7---|A---|Am--|D(IV)~
C major to Bb major
|C---|Am---|C---|F---|F7---|Bb---|Eb-F-|Bb---| or
|C---|Cdim7---|F7---|Bb---|
C major to Bb minor
|C---|Am---|C---|F---|F7---|Bbm---|Ebm-F-|Bbm---|
C major to B major
|C---|F---|Em---|B---|
