Bass not cutting through..

[Bryandt]

if in a mix, the bass is to the point of being heard...it's too loud. The point of playing the bass is not to be heard, but to be felt and to support (carry) the lead instruments.

But it becomes a big problem if you can't even hear yourself playing and don't know what you're playing. Or even why are you playing in the first place because when you stop playing, it doesn't seem to make a difference. Everything is just a mess.

From what I learned from the kind people here, I'm figuring its the EQ on the various instruments. I am going to try it out this weekend as well.

Thats the problem I'm talking about bro.

And if it's just to be 'felt', why not we bassists just play the open E all the way? As long as the thum is there no?? :???:

 

[Bryandt]

The only part when you should be heard is if you're doing a solo. Otherwise, if you're fighting with the other instruments to be louder than them, people are not going to like it because when basses get to loud, it gets irritating cuz we can feel it in our bodies. especially if the subs are aimed directly at us.

Just to add bro, I'm not the only one worrying that the bass isn't cutting through.

The rest of my band wants to listen to the bass as well. They don't find it irritating nor worried that I might get louder than them.

So we're trying to fix the problem together.

Thanks for everyone's help btw.

 

[Bryandt]

agree with evident....

i have the chance to work with some real professional sound engineers and it really helps in understanding sound more...

talk to them if you have the chance...they will tell you alot about sound...

one thing musician really need to know is sound engineering which is another big topic........

it will helps you in understanding why some sounds are cut...and so on...

But at the end of the day, when you pay attention to the bass in any band recordings, the bass can be heard no??

Yes I know its cut, but it can be heard, IT'S THERE, not just a presence to be felt.

^5 to dumbcube, b33r, exin and lordie. Thoughts alike

 

[aquanaut]

you are playing jazz bass for practise....and you keep your musicman bass at home.

use your musicman bass for practise & gigs...the musicman will cut through the mix, believe me.

also, the neck specs of both basses differ so your comfort level of playing is actually compromised should you switch to your musicman when you play a gig.

also, good fretting and picking technique is the number one fundamental for good tone.
even if you have an alembic series 1 built by rick turner and eletronics designed and installed by ron wickersham himself, without good hand techinique the bass will not sound good nor will it cut through.

yet another bass querie solved by Sgt. Aquanaut.....

'slap the bass in 20 minutes or i pay you for your time!!!'....guaranteed

just one of the modules in my bass performance lessons.

the sound IS in your hands...really.

 

[lester_music]

But at the end of the day, when you pay attention to the bass in any band recordings, the bass can be heard no??

Yes I know its cut, but it can be heard, IT'S THERE, not just a presence to be felt.

^5 to dumbcube, b33r, exin and lordie. Thoughts alike

yes..sure can be heard..hehe...actually the meaning of "felt" in music means still can be heard or else how you feel it......the volume must be enough for you to feel it.....

just that it cannot be too obvious cause lower frequencies easily eat up highs...

take for example the recording by SRV Scuttle Buttin..you can heard the bass but it is hard for you to figure out what note exactly he is playing unless you try really hard.....that is what I meant by bass with a "felt" volume/sound...

it is also good to train yourself to play an instrument without the need to hear it....it will come in handy in some venues...haha

 

[Bryandt]

you are playing jazz bass for practise....and you keep your musicman bass at home.

use your musicman bass for practise & gigs...the musicman will cut through the mix, believe me.

also, the neck specs of both basses differ so your comfort level of playing is actually compromised should you switch to your musicman when you play a gig.

Yes I will bring the Ray next time I go. I was intending to use it all along but the days hasn't been very convenient for me to bring it along.

Besides, I want to learn the theories behind the mix should I ever need to use another bass for whatever reason.

also, good fretting and picking technique is the number one fundamental for good tone.
even if you have an alembic series 1 built by rick turner and eletronics designed and installed by ron wickersham himself, without good hand techinique the bass will not sound good nor will it cut through.

the sound IS in your hands...really.

 

[phantom_killer]

One way to ensure a good bass volume is to suit the dynamics of the band. For me what I'll do is ill keep the volume rather high on the amp, then i'll back off the volume knob on the bass itself, or i could pluck more softly at the softer parts of the song (verses and what not).

This would force the guitarist (hopefully) to play back off on his amp volume if he wants to hear the bass harmonising with his chords (why wouldn't he, its the BASS of the chords!). This "lack of playing", or more accurately, "overall soft playing" allows you to insert accents here and there to define to groove, or drive the chorus when the guitarist kicks in his micro amp or whatever booster pedal he has at his disposal. This way, it gives you the headroom you need to push where needed, not where you exhaust your entire dynamic range already when you are just playing the usually softer verses and intro. (imagine like using pistols for small kills early in a shooting game, and then using an rpg to meet the boss, as an illustration).

A problem most bassists face is that the guitarist (usually if he is inexperienced) would like to blast his amp. We have to try to convince them to back off their amp volume, especially in cheap jamming studios. We can compensate by playing softly overall, and yet have to ability to go louder. That's what our fingers and the volume knob on the bass is for.

The bass is meant to be heard. It is the foundation on which the harmony of almost every form of music is built upon.

 

[FourSling]

bro, let us know how it goes with the Ray and if it sits up in the mix. Not to be the doomsayer but I agree with some here that it will probably only solve your problem half way or not at all - it's not the bass but a combination of lotsa factors already listed further up, and especially your technique.

not referring to your band in particular (they sound like a good bunch who are keen to work with you to hear that bass): but sometimes this situation may have to do with the fact that a lot of non-bassists don't get the bass and its place in music - foundation, harmony, dynamics, etc. That's going to be a tough sell.

For example, I often have to tell keyboardists who are used to playing solo to lay off the left hand as they are either just doing a unison riff or muddying the foundation up. Then there is the all-time classic of 'play the root note' or 'don't play at all on this passage'. Someone said it right: your typical band members individually practice in a room and try to compensate for that by laying on bass then bring it into the jamming studio.

Couple of things, therefore, relating to technique to survive a situation like this and help "find" your place in the mix: go counterpoint and play higher up the neck; go The Roots or Lenny Kravitz-style and do a simple but slammin' feel riff that provides a recognisable signature alonside the searing, blazing guitar(s) (listen to "My Mama Said" as an example); then there's the "road less traveled approach" by guys like Fieldy from Korn. Faced with a wall of guitars, he dumped his lows and mids and went high, almost glass like, taking him into kick drum territory, and made it a signature of Korn's sound.

Do what you have to. Remember, we're lucky. We're like the centre of the whole band - we have to and get to listen to EVERYONE.

 

[dumbcube]

For example, I often have to tell keyboardists who are used to playing solo to lay off the left hand as they are either just doing a unison riff or muddying the foundation up.

WELLSAID my friend.

 

[b33r]

+1 about the heavy-left-handed keyboardists!

 

[emptyspaces]

I don't know if you still experience problems about your bass not cutting through. Personally, I tweak the EQ of my bass so as not to "share" the same frequency with the other instruments e.g. guitars, keyboards, drums. I can tell you for sure that it's nothing to do with the over-bearing volume from the guitars, keyboards etc. Try experimenting with your EQ, you might just be able to work something out.

Hope that helps! :]

 

[drumsolo86]

I'm not a basssist but I definitely appreciate a bass presence in the band (yes I'm a drummer.) Whatever bullshit people say about not hearing the bass is really BULLSHIT. The bass must have a presence cos it's the foundation in which the music is sitting upon, no bass = 'hollowish sounding music'.

So yes, bass is definitely to be heard. I would say in a usual 3:1 (bass - guitar amp watt ratio), the bass needs to up the volume if it is not heard as ears tend to be less sensitive to low frequencies. Guitar will not have that much of a problem as many have pointed out here - different frequency level where it can easily be heard.

Usually for a soundcheck, drums -> bass -> guitar -> vocals. Yes bass is HIGHLY important in the music!

 

[rylche]

You can raise your mids if you have trouble cutting through. It does bring out the snarly and growly aspect of your bass.

 

[alanchia]

but for me i'll scoop mids (the 1KHz region) instead of raising. my reasoning, this region is also occupied by e.guitar/keys. i'll rather raise the lows.

 

[scylla019]

you probably cant hear yourself but the point is moderation, if you increase volume, the others would say they cant hear themselves and increase too. and soon you would have damaged your ears.

ask your guitarists to lower theirs to an equilibrium