bass amplification/preamp questions

[macabre]

Hey guys,

I've been pondering over this for some time, wonder if any experts can help me out. I've been considering buying a cheap bass head, but not the speakers cos' its not viable to drag all to a SG gig. However I'm a total NOOB when it comes to stuff like wattage and ohms and impedence etc...

So if I buy a head:

1) Am I able to connect to any brand/type of speaker cabinet?
2) Am I able to connect to a combo amp (without going through the combo's preamp)?
3) Is the power incompatible if I buy from some overseas site (e.g. ebay)?

or...should I just go the way of everyone else and buy a preamp/DI pedal like the Sansamp or Bassbone instead?

Thanks for your advice

 

[dude]

haha. these are good questions. ive always wanted to know about this. sorry i cant provide you with the answers brudder..

 

[angry]

I'm not really sure about this but as far as I know not all heads will be compatible with cabinets of difference wattage, impendence, blah blah blah. Of course there's amp head which allows you to select different impedence when connecting to speakers, but other issues will surface, i.e. underpowering the amp, frying the transformer blah blah blah.

As power the power supply, take note of the US 110v vs our 230v, if you purchase one that got no voltage selector, you gotta get a step down transformer.

Getting a DI will allow you to connect straight to the PA or use it as a preamp to shape the sound. Safe choice.

Maybe the more experienced guys could educate us on this?

 

[mikemann]

It's not a question of can or cannot for any of your question. It's all possible given the right equipment can be matched (limited chance), but lets be practical. Which equipment supplier will allow you to plug your head to just their cabinet in their rig??

Even for myself as a supplier, when my equipment is concerned. It's either you use whatever rig I supply to you, or you bring your own complete rig and do whatever you please. Even if you are using your own DI preamp / effects, I will need to inspect first and ensure it's compatible.

Another thing, a head is built to suit it's own matching cabinet/s. By using other cabinets the sound could suck big time.

A DI /preamp would be accepted most of the time.

If you are that particular about your sound, it's either you use your own complete amp rig, or special request (have to pay of course) for the specific rental equipments. There is always a higher price to pay for striving personal perfection. Or just simply use what is provided for you.

 

[Colarndo]

Yeah, I agree with mikeman in the above post. Most SG gigs just run you through a D.I. Instead of getting a cheap head which probably wouldn't sound good, get a good D.I box with different cab simulations/Bass Multi-EFX.

If you really wanna buy a head, make sure you get a cab as well if not, no point.
A Head's line out/pre-amp out/XLR out is the only way to connect the head's output signal safely. ONLY the XLR Output can be toggled with the Pre/Post Switch. You wouldn't probably use it unless you buy an XLR to 1/4" cable.
The only POST output(1/4") in most heads is the one which carries the power and you wouldn't to use that output unless you have a matching impedance cab.
If you connect the power output(1/4") to the standard jamming studio Bass Combo, it'll blow.

 

[macabre]

Guys thanks for the constructive advice, I've got a few more queries, hope you can help me out.

1) Sometimes at gigs I see some guitar players bringing their own heads to use with the provided cabs. I know for bass amps have much louder low frequencies and require more power - is this the reason why bass heads have to be so specific with cabs that they were made for?

2) Do you think this set up is viable/practical?

Bass > Amp head XLR direct out > Mixer

or would the a DI/Preamp pedal like the Sansamp be just as effective in terms of sound quality?

Thanks again

 

[Colarndo]

All D.I boxes have a XLR OutPut. Again, if your just using your head's "sound" for the XLR output, you'll better off getting something smaller. Your Power outputs will be redundant. You should buy a good Bass D.I/Multi EFX with cab simulations. You won't want to carry a heavy Amp Head to gigs unless you drive. Most gigs(not counting high budget ones)will give you only a Bass Combo to use. And you can only use the Pre-amp/Line in section. Unlike E.GTRist who usually has a EFX In & EFX Out connected.

Sound Quality wise, depends on what you buy and varies with different individuals. It's more of personal perferance. We have people saying SansAmp is good, than people saying Hartke Bass Attack D.I is good also and Sadowsky Pre-Amp is good too.

 

[milkmesto]

hey ted, didnt know you're on the boards.

knowing your needs and playing style, i'd strongly suggest you check out the sadowsky bass preamp, before you commit to getting a bass head. the sansamp bass DI can't even touch it, IMHO. jon hems has one in his rig, and his bass sound is one of the most consistent i have ever heard of all the bassists i've played with. do check it out if you have the chance... or swing by the wmum shop and try jon hems' one

 

[macabre]

Corlando > Thanks a lot : ) Your advice has been most helpful : ) So you think that a small DI/Preamp box can beat a head in terms of sound alone, if both were to be XLR out?

Milkmesto > Hey dude Actually I've been reading for some time, but decided I need the experts' advice on this issue since it does involve a fair bit of investment, so I need to know how much to save up.

Sy told me about Jon Hems's setup and it sounds really impressive, especially with a tube DI. I think my problem is that I'm trying to bypass as many preamps/EQs as possible, since I already have active controls on my bass. And you're right too - consistency is what I really need.

I guess I'm just trying to recreate that sound that I got out of Leonard's Trace on the EP. Does the WMUM have a Sadowsky for sale? All the best with VR

 

[milkmesto]

unfortunately wmum doesnt have a sadowsky for sale... but frankly, even with an active pre on your sdgr, the sadowsky pre will be an excellent addition - plus it weighs a lot less than a trace head. or an ampeg head. or a GK head. heh.

actually jon hems doesnt use a tube pre, he has a tube compressor - ART tube levelar. evens out his sound a lot and makes it very consistent.

 

[AvonRellets]

His review on HC is pretty funny too heh

 

[Rabbit]

 

[dude]

hey milkmesto! i checked out your rig pix. hahaha. you have AWESOME stuff man! like really AWWWWWEEEEESSSSSOOOOMMMMEEEE. hahaha. i have a question. why would you need 2 of the same pedals? as in the ibannez TS9.

where can i get a shadowsky preamp then? and where and whats wmum?

 

[orcfiend]

sadowsky preamp - either overseas, or www.tradersgreen.com

but last i asked, tradersgreen, out of stock. bleh i want one too

 

[milkmesto]

i think if there's enough demand for the sadow pre, bernard (tradersgreen) will be willing to make a new order, if not then it will forever be out of stock... so... guys, make a bulk order!!

But anyway, a preamp is almost as good as dragging a head around for a show, after all an amp head consists of a preamp and poweramp section... if you are forced to go DI then the poweramp section isn't going to make much of a difference. I say stick to a good preamp (sadowsky pre hehe), it really does make a hella difference, even on active basses. besides, i think the quality of backline gear is getting better and better nowadays, I think gear providers are giving a bit more bang for the buck... so you'll probably be able to get a decent bass amp, so much so that it might render your bass head superfluous.

dude> chk your pm, i think any discussion of my rig is quite o/t for this thread.

 

[wangdexian]

Hmm, any comments on other preamps, like the Radial Bassbone/Sansamp?

 

[Colarndo]

I'll not comment on tone or brands. It's a subjective matter. I assume you want a good "live" sound so you won't want to be building Rack units like tube compressors and stuff.

Do you really want to carry a head around to diff gigs? Unless you're playing in a club and have a fixed set up, I don't see the point in having an amp head.
Take a cheapo Behringer head which is ard $379 bucks w/o GST(Last time I checked), you can get a good Bass D.I plus a Boss Analog pedal.

You asked me whether "a small DI/Preamp box can beat a head in terms of sound alone, if both were to be XLR out?" Now that's not quite a hard question to answer.
-(Giving you Bass sound to the Board question)Your sound lies in the hands of the soundman. Period. It's not really a question about tone. Your rig can sound great on stage but is it coming out good on the house and sub-woofers? Can the system reproduce the great sound you're hearing on stage?
People say good tone comes from fingers/gadgets/instrument you use.
It's not practical to compare a D.I with just a stand alone head. A head is meant to be used with a Cabinet. That's it's purpose. Of course no soundman I've seen in gigs mikes up the Bass Cabs. the Bass D.I(XXX brand) is meant to sound good as a stand alone whether you use it as a Pre-amp to your combo or as an XLR output to the board. And you can keep it i your pocket easily. The purpose of a noraml D.I is just to make the signal balanced to the board. A Bass D.I has functions dedicated to the Bass Gtr.

 

[macabre]

Actually since you mentioned rack mount, just wondering whether a rack mount preamp (way out of budget) is like a preamp pedal. As in, can it be plugged straight into a head/combo and help shape the tone? Since there's no poweramp section, there's no issue with the power compatibility is there?

besides, i think the quality of backline gear is getting better and better nowadays, I think gear providers are giving a bit more bang for the buck... so you'll probably be able to get a decent bass amp, so much so that it might render your bass head superfluous.

Milkmesto > You mean like, buy an amp?? How to drag to gigs man, esp. if its someplace like Fort Canning! What's the standard size for bass amps at gigs anyhow? I never really noticed, but is it abt 300w?

 

[milkmesto]

haha no i didn't mean get a full bass amp, i meant that with equipment providers giving better backlines, you probably can get a pretty decent bass amp provided at gigs nowadays.

i normally spec an ampeg SVT-3PRO head in my band's tech rider, which makes it a 450watt amp. probably at the bigger shows you'd get a 300-400watt amp, trace elliot or equivalent. at the more indie shows, at the very least you should be getting a peavey TNT - not the best, but not the worst either.

 

[Colarndo]

Hey Marcus, you might not know, but I'm (One Authority)Joshua Tan's friend, Bryan. Lol. I'm supposed to be One Authority's Videographer.
Vertical Rush once did a recording in my previous church(Riverlife).

To macabre: Really man, Racks are meant to be stuck in the Studio for recordings, they can get pretty heavy once you keep adding and adding.
Racks are fragile stuff, probably can't take any knocks while on the road.
Pedals are built like tanks cos the manufacturer knows they will get knocked around. If you have Roadies to carry Racks for you than go ahead.