Auto Accompaniment

[sunshinesarah]

Hi,

Just wondering - I've read a lot of references to this, but what's a lay definition of auto accompaniment? And under what circumstances would we need it?

sarah.

 

[iansoh]

auto-accompaniment is when the intelligent part of the keyboard plays backup for you. you just need to hold a chord in the left hand in a specific part of the keyboard, and the keyboard churns out basslines according to the chord you're playing in the style of the rhythm(waltz, tango, 8beat, disco, etc).

you just need to choose the rhythm that u want. that determines the drums style of the song.

then all u need to do with the right hand is play the solos, or melody, or whatever needs to be played.

this is suitable for one-man bands who don't want the hassle of working with other musicians. everything can be pre-programmed.

 

[sunshinesarah]

So coming back to the Yamaha P series, if the Yamaha P series can't do it, what's the next best alternative, that comes closest to the feel of a piano?

 

[sunshinesarah]

Or, alternatively, if having a more authentic piano is most important to me, are there external modules I can fix to the P series that will allow me to have accompaniment, and at some very far off time in the future, maybe even allow me to do some form of sequencing?

I'm just wondering about expandability, and exploring the versatility of the digital pianos (and of course my own!)

I've this niggling feeling I should be bringing this back to the gear forum...........

 

[bongman]

if you want auto accomp. digital piano
can consider KORG SP500

otherwise can add external modules
like groovebox or electribe or loopfactory
via MIDI to your digital piano

 

[sunshinesarah]

Just went out to try the Casio PX 110. Apparently it's new. Has anyone tried it?

Apparently it's got auto accompaniment on the percussions, and according to my sis who has been playing on our Petrof piano more regularly than I have, it feels more like our german piano.

Haven't yet tried the P250, but does the feel feel more like the Yamaha uprights, or the German / continental uprights?

and Bongman, you mentioned that we can attach modules for auto accompaniment - is that very difficult or expensive?

 

[Indigo_blues]

if price is not an issue the just get a yamaha motif 88 key ... it has sequencer built in and everything. However the touch is not the graded hammer action touch of the p250.

If touch is an issue, then the p250 is the closest probably to a real piano. You can just use a computer to play the autoaccompaniment.

 

[iansoh]

the p250 has the weight and feel of a grand piano. uprights are generally quite light and the p250 isn't light. honestly i can't tell the difference between continental and asian pianos. not like it's going or supposed to make a difference to the player anyway.

auto accompaniment does much more than provide drum parts. they follow your chord changes as well. for that, you will need ARRANGER keyboards. such as the korg SP500 (good buy), yamaha clavinovas, yamaha PSR portasounds, or yamaha electone organs. there are probably other casio portasounds which do it too. the only one with weighted keys and arranger abilities are the SP500 and the clavinovas.

i wouldn't recomment additional midi equipment. it doesn't quite make up as general a package as an arranger keyboard. grooveboxes and computer software are very specialised equipment, require technical expertise and may be superfluous to your needs. and yes, they are expensive.

 

[Cheez]

Sarah,

You'll need to decide whether touch is more important to you or auto-accompaniment. In other words, you'll have to prioritise your needs. It is hard to get a keyboard that has very good touch (close to a piano) with good auto-accompaniment. SP500 may be the closest to it, but its accompaniment is not the best and neither is its touch (it is somewhere between both worlds).

The best auto-accompanimnet, in my opinion, is still the Yamaha PSR series in terms of it's user-friendliness and number of variations. Roland comes next but is probably more costly with less features.

For touch - Yamaha P series are great. The S series (S90) is also very good but not graded. It has no build-in speakers. Next down the line for touch is Roland RD series. But perhaps the best touch possible belongs to the Kawai MP4. Not available in Singapore and I've not tried it myself. But reviews said it blows all Yamaha series away as the BEST touch ever made.

Actually, touch is a very personal thing. You really have to try it for yourself. My suggestions are my opinion (and actually also most pianists who wrote in other forums). I've played on the Petrof Grand for many years and I must say that the Yamaha P series are the best to the real thing. I can play on it for hours - it's that addictive (and I don't even own the P series keyboard!). I don't know about the Casio but it is surprising if they produce a keyboard with touch that good. In the end, you'll really have to play it for yourself.

Unless you really want auto-accompaniment very badly, my suggestion is that you should choose one that is the most comfortable to play with (according to your own feel and fingers). For a pianist/keyboardist, I believe feel/touch should be top priority. If you have a keyboard full of features but the keys feel lousy, you'll end up playing little. Again, it all depends on your needs...

 

[SilverBeast]

No offence to Robert Piano Co., but "donkey" weeks ago, I was at one of its branches and asked whether the MP4 has arrived which one of its staff said yes but it was still unwrapped for display. They asked for my contact but till today, no news! Called them up just last week but the attitude of the staff who took my call sucks depsite my politeness! Gizzz...that's the problem with monopolised trade and that's it, no Kawai products for me no matter how good it can be!!!

 

[SilverBeast]

Sunshine, Sunshine...reading your threads really reminds me of myself when I got my kybds. Apart from budget, there was this kiasu mentality of wanting to get the "everything must have" kybd as well as that Singaporean mentality that it must be cheap and good!!! :lol:

Well, the truth is that if you are really serious into kybd music, the kybd you get now will not be the only kybd you own...I am sure most kybd dudes in this forum would agree. Technology in kybds is ever-changing and till now, there is no one ultimate kybd.

Anyway, if you are interested in Casio P-110, I'd rather you consider the PX-400R, but then, I don't know how the keys feels like - you gotta try it out and like it. On the other hand, if you are not limited by budget and would like to have more than plain piano sounds to accompany your music sessions, then you might want to consider a Yamaha CVP or similar.

 

[Cheez]

No offence to Robert Piano Co., but "donkey" weeks ago, I was at one of its branches and asked whether the MP4 has arrived !!!

Huh, Robert Piano Co bringing in the MP4??? That's news. If you get your fingers on it, please, please give us a review!

 

[SilverBeast]

Hi Cheez,

The news is not new...since my good old school days, Robert Piano has been dealing with Kawai. If you could recall (that is if you are as OLD as me), there were the K-series synths.

Anyway, as mentioned, I will be giving Kawai a miss. But just in case anyone would wanna pay them a visit, perhaps it would be better to wear a suit or even if you are wearing Ts and bermudas, let the T say "I'm here to spend!". :lol:

 

[sunshinesarah]

Hi guys

thanks again for all the advice. Yes, I'll go and play around. It was fun getting reacquainted with the Petrof...even more fun going around to the Casio distributor here and being told that I shouldn't compare any digital piano to the Petrof because nothing else quite matches up to it! heh

Will let you know how the hem and hawing goes and what I end up with, probably in a a couple of weeks (or less!) time!!

sarah.

ps. Cheez - I'm so tempted to ask what you do - you sound like quite the ultimate musician!! Do you perform?

 

[Indigo_blues]

For me touch is also the most important thing.. cause in a digital keyboard you can always get sound modules to beef up the sound later but you cannot change the touch of the keyboard without buying another one!!

 

[Cheez]

Silverbeast,

Yes! Now that you reminded me, I got my Kawai upright from Robert Piano Co - actually my parents got that for me and that was almost 30 years ago!!!!

Sarah,

Me only a hobbyist. I don't perform as much now - too busy. By the way, I've recently tried the Casio digital pianos in Hong Kong. The touch is a little light to my taste. Although I think Casio did a good job (they certainly improved over the years), they are still a way off if they want to compete with the more experienced manufacturers. By the way, the Casio distributor is wrong in saying you shouldn't copmpare any digital piano with the Petrof. First of all, Petrof isn't the best out there. Secondly, there are really many good digital pianos that can match up with a grand piano. That's how we decide which digital piano's touch is good - by comparing the "fake piano" with the "real piano"!

 

[sunshinesarah]

Just went down to Yamaha yesterday to try out the P series. Truth to tell, not having been in contact with the piano much for the past 10 yrs, and with only Petrof's feel as a gauge, most of the digital pianos still feel pretty light. Though the P250 feels good at Fortissimo and are definitely bottom key heavy! heh The tinkly sound's really tinkly and bright tho on the higher notes. And I honestly can't immediately tell the difference between all the P-series pianos.

I think it's gonna be a while till I get my own set of keys at this rate of needing to familiarize myself again with more frequent visits to these show rooms (not to mention getting some other songs to test play besides Chopin's Nocturnes!). Though with my fingers' apparent insensitivity now, I'm starting to wonder if the feel is gonna make a whole lot of difference now if the differences are subtle amongst models and makes.

Have been doing up some reading on Roland RD700 though. Feature wise, other than feel, how does it compare to the P250 in terms of versatility?

I'm up to investing (well, not anything more than $4K!) to bring my previous hobby back into long term mode with possibility of expansion beyond just classical piano in the longer term, and the Roland demos look good, though I've yet to try them out myself. The demos definitely showed the ease of use. Not too sure about the P250's features exactly, other than the piano. Spent quite some time tinkering around with the sounds yesterday though. That was fun!

Heh, I know I've scoured you brains and thoughts (and this forum) for a while already, but if you have more thoughts to share, please do.

And yes Ian, I AM the kiasu, kiasi non-Singaporean... It's just a big investment and I'm not really too keen on buying many items for a few years, so would prefer something that'll last me for a fairly long time, and is sufficiently versatile for taking up more genres of music.

Next on the line....Korg SP500......

 

[Cheez]

Good idea. Spend more time playing all those keyboards first before jumping into making a decision.

As for the RD700, in my opinion it is the most user-friendly keyboard available especially if you are playing live. Personally, I like Roland sounds better than Yamaha. But Yamaha has slightly better touch than Roland (slightly more responsive as well). Hard to compare the P250 with the RD700. The RD700 has no build-in speakers like the P250. But the RD700 has more sounds (some not that useful for live purposes), easier to layer and split sounds (including easy adjusting the separate layered sounds), and has drawbars which is great for Hammond type sounds. RD700 is more of a stage piano (performing) than the P250, which is really for home use. That doesn't mean you can't use the RD700 at home and the P250 on stage.

I've recently tried the RD700SX in the US. This is the newer model to the RD700. It is definitely a great piano to play although the touch is the same as the older model. The buttons are now changed from plastic to rubber - very much easier to press. The virtual tonewheel is excellent. I cannot recall from the RD700, but the newer RD700SX's leslie actually changes the speed gradually instead of immediately. When you slows the leslie, the rotation actually decreases until the set speed and vice versa for speeding up. Most keyboards switches the speed immediately. This gives the Roland a reality none can compare. Also, it has 2 new grand piano sounds - with each key multisampled. Very nice sounding from the lowest to the higest note - defintely heaps better than the newer Yamaha 3-layered piano which is still very artificial to my taste (especially the higher notes).

 

[Cheez]

Oh by the way, I shouldn't say this but when I was last at City Music trying out their SP series keyboard (about 1 year ago), one of my friends who work there actually told me (which I agree totally of course) that the Roland RD series is way better than the SP series and I should consider the RD instead of the SP. He was speaking in a very soft, low toned voice so that his boss could not hear...

 

[sunshinesarah]

Heh, thanks Cheez. Point noted on the SP

Yes, I realized too that I've overlooked the fact that the RD700 will need amps. This might be another topic altogether, but!, would there be reasonably affordable amps that would justify the sounds of the Roland? like anything 500 and below you think? And that aren't humongously huge?

I guess these will also go into the overall consideration.....since after all, I did start out with the intent of some level of portability as well!