Are you really making music?

[tim098]

Hey fellow soft drummers, I was just wondering. I ve read many thread which sometimes can get extremely technical in terms of drumming, with all kinds of (insert number)-stroke rolls or new weird/cool sticking patterns.

However, although all these apply and greatly help drummers in soloing, I personally dont think that many drummers in Singapore realise the need to complement the band. Im not saying all, of course, but there are many who simply unleash all their speed, sticking and rudimental skills while playing with the band, which ends up destroying the balance of the song and sometimes (unfortunately) errors.

Thats why i think the need to be able to match the music is important. Sometimes, the simplest "Boom-chick-chick, Tak-chick-chick" rhythm played with feel and emotion can make the drummer sound musically better than someone executing a dramatic accurate 11-stroke roll all around the kit while playing some odd rhythm with the hi hat.

 

[lester_music]

it is a common scenerio...

even as a guitar, bass or keys...playing fewer notes seems to be less cool from the layman point of view...

usually it is the level of maturity in your playing...

when I was starting out..I tend to wanna execute lotsa "extra" things.....then over the years as I listen carefully....music is actually very simple...but it also depends on what kind of music..


I was doing bass on a "free" jam with friends...I just simply play the root note, so that the band sounded clean & also the vocal can stand out.....
Along the way....another younger bassist took over...he would do all the riff he can think of and get himself really busy...he looks really cool playing that and naturally audience looking would think he is a much better player... but unknowingly he ruined the song...

 

[bluelite]

Hi..i'm the keyboardist of my band but was attracted to this thead...that explains why i'm here..lol..

I think what u say is totally true...sometimes less is more while more might be less...

This is why many people must understand that playing in a band is not like playing as an individual performer..That applies to us keyboardist too..when we play a show alone..we have to play with chords and bass on our left hand...while when in a band..a simple holding chord might do wonders...

So i hope that ur message will get thru to all the musicians who are playing in a band..

Remember, there is no "I" in TEAMWORK...

 

[weckl-x]

...and there's U and I in MUSIC! Sorry, couldn't resist the lame pun. Hah

 

[alvinthedrummer]

Weckl....killer...that's damn funny lah!!...haha...

and tim098, I think you are absolutely right...extremely technicality may not necessarily equate to musicality. Great post!

 

[kanzer]

OMG! wreckl. thats real lame. ok so now i learnt two new phrases! YAY CAN USE IN COMPO.. haha there is no I in TEAMWORK! AnD THERE IS U AND I IN MUSIC! HAHAH!!

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Couldn’t agree more here with tim098.

Yeah and I started out same as bro lester music – when it comes to Soloing I tend to play fast-stroke and solo the whole 4-Bar with no breathing space (because in my mind – already very scared when started out-just wanna finish my 4-bar and pass to the next musician) ….. and I’ve learn to play less nowadays, give some breathing space in between, also exercising some Dynamics in my fill-ins (which I’m still working on this even now).

And constantly listening to the Band and sometimes watching them while I play … be alert…there are times too - that I need to fill-in the empty-space that my lead-guitarists left (probably for me)….

Working as a team, comes understanding each other better, sometimes I realize I just know the cues given by some of them, I can hear it, I can feel it…

Through understanding each other, music becomes fun and I really enjoy working it out with my bands….

My Greatest Weakness:- I really have to listen to the songs and memorise the melody.......all the Musicians as well as my Instructor tells me the same thing - You have to know the melody when you do the Solo...this is what all of them do when they solo (they sing the melody in their head) - - this area I've alot to work on.....I am weak here on Jazz, but when it comes to Rock & Pop I can remember the Lyrics even....funny.

 

[plainsman]

good post.

i was at a crossroads several years ago, when i asked myself... am i a musician first, or a drummer first?

some of you will answer one, or the other.

my answer to myself was... i am a musician first.

i play drums to serve the music.


this probably means, i am not going to be some virtuoso player who can unleash technical stuff the likes of nobody almost ever sees ala colauita or donati.

i only practice something because i need it to express some emotion, or take the songwriter's vision to completion.

but i embrace it wholeheartedly, for some of us are meant to further the art of drumming, while others throw themselves into making sure the music sings.


cheers

 

[Mobius]

Its about having musicality. Drummer main role is to

1)keep the time,
2)get a groove going,
3)leading the band from verse to chorus, chorus to verse and so forth

The above 3 sounds simple but I guess the simple things tend to be forgotten for the sake of playing fancy stuff that spoils the whole song and frustrate the hell out of your bandmates.. ...

 

[plainsman]

i must add that virtuoso players are important too... because they can inspire.

the all-too dominating and powerful overplaying drummer becomes a nuisance to some bands, because he already started dictating the songwriting direction with his playing.

it may not necessarily be a bad thing.


there are times in a person's life (especially the younger ones) where u must first develop the courage and audacity to OVERplay.

if u can barely play a sparse groove, and a weak one at that, it is much harder to learn to overplay as you get older.


another advantage of overplaying, is that you get noticed younger too, lah ... haha!!! ( i kind of regret not being a super overplayer when i was young .....)



a lot of seasoned drummers play simple, sweet groove but i always feel that they understand all the stars in the galaxy, hence when they just play a couple of constellations, they are always firmly in control, and can play more when they desire, or when the music calls for it.

 

[.: YangZ :.]

the point brought out is really good and i cant agree more to it..

think this will probably lead us to whether we play music just for the sake of it and get it done with OR performing music, to ensure everytime we play the music as though we are going to perform it, even if its playing over and over again for hundreds of times..

of cos on the performance night, u also cant tell urself to do just do what u've been doing when u're practicing..have to be conscious with the surroundings and be ready for any situational changes eg, guitarist forgot verse/bridge and the rest of the members have to change themselves accordingly and not keep playing and insisting u r correct..hope pple understand what i mean with this example..

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

I do have a misconception some time back, but I've look at things differently now.

I remember clearly in one of our Xchanges a drummer came up at one of our DXS Meeting and did something simple (not fantastic- so I thought to myself, he must be a so-so drummer)...but I saw this very same drummer at a Gig (he play there 6-days a week) and he was completely different when he played with his band...It was tightdamn solid and I love his drummings and he was indeed a good drummer ....we had a great chat and he was a really nice man.....

So I guess I won't be able to tell if the drummer is really good or not until maybe I see him/her play in a real band situation - - Am I right here ? I guess so.

 

[plainsman]

haha.... yangz, this example u brought up is good..... sounds like the band members are .... gan jiong (stagefright?) !!!


seriously, everyone gets nerves when they perform, least of all your bandmates. its just how each one manages it. (this is probably really the topic of another thread.)


for some music genres, what a drummer can do is, make your drum parts wrap around the music so tightly, they actually give hints to your bandmates what is supposed to be played.

for some progressive style rock bands, this really works. in the case of dir en grey, listen to how close shinya's parts are in line with the guitar riffs, right down to the last note.

thats what i love about some dir en grey songs, even when they do not play note for note together, shinya phrased it such that it falls on the off-notes of the guitar riffing.

now, he was a disciple of yoshiki (and only for the first album release) it appeared to me he only learned some of the master's stuffs. but whatever he had, by himself, was his own CREATIVITY.

some of the classics like myaku, zomboid have me scratching my head in disbelief when i tried to play it back then.

it is wonderful drum groove to me.




now, this approach obviously doesnt serve all music. take john mellencamp for example, he just seems to want a strong 2 and 4 and that's IT (maybe thats why kenny aronoff got hired for so many jobs...)

and if bandmembers forgot parts like u describe. its still pretty much amateur situation. if you're serious about drums and playing music in public, have a talk with them and work towards delivering the songs properly together.

cheers!

 

[kanzer]

omg plainsman that was deep.

yea for me to begin with i am not one who plays too much. i try to keep my grooves simple and fills neat. dun need too much fancy pancy, maybe its due to my genre? but sometimes it really does cross my mind. should i play more, is my style too simple? yea so now i am trying to go back to basics and work from there to become a more complicated yet simple drummer.

and definitely! i am a musician first. the band comes first.


and plainsman do you really think that one should try to overplay to get noticed?

 

[Frummer]

Although I was the one who asked regarding the 11-stroke roll in Chewy's thread ( I was merely curious ), I agree with the points brought up so far.

Musicality! Thats the word. Everyone ( not just drummers ) have to play in context. Play only when it is called for. Some drummers bang the drums like they're playing in a stadium (when they're in a small jamming studio) Gahh!!! However if the song calls for the 11stroke roll...why not? Hahaha.

Mobius - I gotta disagree with one point though...I believe it is everyone's role to keep time. ( I have been guilty of going out of time alot though... )

Just an example :

Band tells Drummer to practice with metronome because the whole band keeps going out of time. Drummer practices with metronome and got his stuff together. Band still goes out of time. Drummer continues to get the blame and gets super stressed and might eventually quit drumming because he has doubts about drumming. Why all this? Because the Band themselves couldn't follow a metronome...not to mention the drummer. Haha sorry for being long winded...just an example

Kanzer - Not necessary ah dude. Saw the video of benny greb grooving? He didn't overplay but it is still impressive man! Groooveee....

Cheers!

 

[lester_music]

we should not care whether we are noticed or not....but rather how the band glued together as one "big" instrument.....

another factor, the dynamics.....even if the drummer play simple...his dynamics must also matches that of the song and other instrument...

also about being sensitive to the rest of the players.....

A Good drummer is not how well, how fast etc....but rather how he places his drum part to the song....

 

[tim098]

Musicality! Thats the word. Everyone ( not just drummers ) have to play in context. Play only when it is called for.

Mobius - I gotta disagree with one point though...I believe it is everyone's role to keep time.

Fully agree especially with these two points. Especially keeping time, everyone has to keep time, not just the drummer.

And also about the drummer or musician first, i used to think maybe 3 or 4 years back that i was a drummer first. Heh although i must say that reluctance and laziness to upgrade my drummer skills contributed a teeeeeeny bit to my thinking being changed now, I realise that I personally prefer complementing the music im playing with.

But I ve seen those with absolutely insane technical and soloing skills, and i think if they personally like it they should continue being that way. Who knows, might turn into the next superstar drummer

 

[Vaiyen]

some music genres are by nature technical, so virtuoso drumming is a given.
I also think that if you have the technical facility to play whatever u want, from pop to death thrash ( a certain BK comes to mind), u will be that much more in demand as a sessionist/recording artiste.

Having lots of technique never hurt anyone. It's only detrimental if we blindly pursue it at the expense of everything else. Thus, one must always consciously maintain a balance.

Let's not turn this thread into an excuse for musicians who are lazy to hone technique!!

 

[lester_music]

Vaiyen: well said indeed...

I am totally with you...

 

[mel80]

Some really great inputs here so far.

Personally, I tend to follow the bass lines and guitar riffs first. I try to catch the accents and play in such a way that the song has space to 'breathe'. Nowadays, I am working on singing along to the vocal melodies and sometimes even harmonizing. It helps me understand and feel the music more.