Advice

[cow240]

hello im new to this forum.
Basically im a leisure pianist who learnt up to grade 2 previously(about 10 years ago).Have been playing leisurely for 1 year plus,mostly mandopop songs like jay chou(eg. qi li xiang) and wang lee hom.Can say that i have exceeded my grade 1-2 standard,playing wise.

Although i can read the "tau gey",i still feel inadequate when reading scores,especially when some scores require u to repeat some parts.
I have to listen to the sample cd to be able to know how the song is played as a whole sometimes.
Therefore,I would like some advise on any good books that teach basic theory for pop-piano or any other stuff that can help me improve.
and perhaps like to get some valuable advice from u guys to up a notch in terms of my playing skills.
Thank you very much!

 

[kdash]

hmm i think there are a lot of chord books out there with pop songs, you can buy and practise reading the standard notation from there. that should help in your sight reading, plus you can learn to play your favourite pop songs too!

i'm not a pianist/keyboardist though... hope this helps!

 

[pf]

First thing first...

If you need to listen to CDs to know the whole song goes, then I suggest you don't read books. I tried to read books but I find that its quite boring and a chore to read since I'm not a classical pianist and don't read full piano sheet music with ease.

Most books (if they go into great detail) will show you styles and stuff using the grand staff, showing you examples of the traids in the treble clef and bass clef. You can do a search on Amazon and some keyboard playing instructional books will have sample pages to see if you can stand reading those things first.

Second thing second (lol)...

Why not get a teacher? Really more interesting and helpful to have a live and kicking master to show you the kung fu.

 

[cow240]

thanks guys
anw i did buy the chord books,which is the material i am currently playing.Tau gey is not a problem..but the trouble is the repeating parts and perhaps i just wanna increase my knowledge and get to know some piano technial jargon hehe.
I dont think i will ever get a piano teacher..bcos i really want to improve by myself and..isnt it cool to tell ppl that u started playing from scatch?lol
anw i will check out the books and see if i can "tahan" them

One more thing,pf, u mentioned that u are not at ease reading the scores as u r not classically trained.But isnt it true that even though pop and classical are 2 different things,score reading is the base for these 2?Could u clarify this point?Thanks

 

[pf]

Alamak...like that then I'm the most uncool person around here since I really started from scratch and I go and tell the whole world about this.

Reading score is important as it is the language of music which is universally communicated. As you've said, pop and classical are 2 different skill sets. So, pop and classical pianists read different scores.

Classical pianist read piano scores. Playing is right to the dot, slurs, staccatos, legatos, cresendos, decresendos, pistachios, tomatos, potatos...haha! I think you get the idea.

The Pop pianist read fake sheets (those that only has the melody line and chords on top) and chord charts (lyrics of the songs and chords on top). The score for pop pianists generally serve as a guide only. They play the chords and then in the middle rojak lah, roti+kaya lah, ice cream+brownie lah, etc.

Oh btw, classical jargon and pop jargon are different as well.

I think I'm hungry. Other pianists who are not so uncool like me, please help. Thanks!

 

[cow240]

hey pf, the website u gave was really something new to me.

But i am pretty confused now.The sheets that i have,ok take for example the Jaychou song, Qi li Xiang.I bought those scores from beach road.There is no improvisation involved,and when played..is made to sound exactly like how it sounds on radio.I use 2 hands to play btw.

And i read the website.I feel that i am obsessed with accuracy.
This is contradicting.Bcos the book i have is just like a classical piece scoresheet,yet it is a pop song!So what kind of book do i have actually?

 

[pf]

If its got the bass clef, its a piano score. Any music can be written out as piano score. Even pop songs.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention...the fake sheets are without bass clef coz pop pianists supposed to improvise on the left hand with the chords.

 

[pianomankris]

Initially, theory is theory (but let's call it harmony, since i think that is what you are talking about ), irrespective of instrument.

a) learn the scales theoretically (don't worry - you don't need to practise them a la the classical way - as long as you know the notes)

b) learn about chord structures. Begin with basic major/minor and their inversions.

Then go on to add 9, 11, m7 etc etc.


Also, try to work out some stuff by ear. If you are up for a challenge, try 'what sarah said' by a group called 'death cab for cutie' (just search youtube). It is in the key of C, and is purely diatonic (i.e. uses only the notes from the key).
See what you can do with it. I'll post the notes up here if you want. It is a good tune for starting out on the path you are taking.

 

[cow240]

yea i guess so,mine is a piano score for pop songs,no improvisation involved.
i'll check out the youtube video,but i am not really into improvisation,more of just wanting to play beautiful pop songs thru scoresheets.But im always open to new concepts in time to come
Thanks for everyone's help once again!

 

[pianomankris]

yea i guess so,mine is a piano score for pop songs,no improvisation involved.
i'll check out the youtube video,but i am not really into improvisation,more of just wanting to play beautiful pop songs thru scoresheets.But im always open to new concepts in time to come
Thanks for everyone's help once again!

Some sort of comping/improv is usually always part of pop playing.



If u don't wanna improv, then the simple advice is learn how to read scores well.

 

[pf]

Are you sure you don't want to improvise?

Actually, I think it is easier and more fun if you learn some principles and techniques of improvisation. Then you can improvise/apply on many many songs, without relying on others to write out a proper piano score for you to play. You can begin to play by ear as well, which you can't do if you don't know what left hand patterns (one of the improvisation techniques) to play with the melody.

If you learn how to improvise, you might not even need to play with scores! Save $$, you know.

 

[cow240]

ya true,but i feel that no matter how much u improvise..it cant beat the ready made scores which is probably improvised by someone else lol.
It saves time..but my goal is to master as many of my favourite songs as possible.But i must say this "play by ear" thing is really new to me.The last time i learnt music,it was non-existent!

 

[kdash]

maybe during the learning phase you can just learn the parts without improvisation, but as you play more, you will find that improvisation becomes very important. maybe if you are playing covers, style copying is ok, but the time will come when you have to come up with your own improvisations to new songs or when doing a different style to certain songs.

bottom line is not to keep improvisation out of your learning repertoire. it is through improvisation that you will discover your unique playing style.

 

[pf]

Cow240, I play keyboard accompaniment and solo in my church.

I need to learn 7 to 9 songs from Monday to Saturday for Sunday service. A total of 6 songs accompaniment including hymns + fast praise songs + slow worship songs and about 3 songs solo while people are praying.

I started doing this barely after 6 months of learning the keyboard from scratch using improvisation techniques. Which is faster, playing from full piano score classical style or pop improvisation?

 

[pf]

Oh yeah....and if on certain sundays, more people come up to the alter for prayer (taking longer time and I've exhausted my 3 solos), I'll have to improvise on the spot.

Composing new songs (aka bluffing my way thru ) using improvisation techniques there and then.

 

[kdash]

nice one there, pf. though i'm not sure if cow240 will get to play in a worship setting haha. in any case, improvisation is very useful, no matter which setting you are playing in.

as a bassist/guitarist playing in church setting, i have to improvise quite often too. but normally i follow the lead of the keyboardist, aka play by ear.

 

[cow240]

lol, i was asked by my sibling to play at some sunday school for kids.But i wasnt really interested.. Kdash,so i assume the keyboardist at ur band in church improvises as well?without a score?

 

[pf]

I was just trying to say that no way can playing the classical way be as fast as pop improvisation. Not to say that classical is no good or not important.

It is of course most desirable to build up good foundations and then carry on to improvise and be a really good musician in all sense. But not everybody has the luxury of going step by step and building up the foundations. The faster way is still pop improvisation.

 

[kdash]

lol, i was asked by my sibling to play at some sunday school for kids.But i wasnt really interested.. Kdash,so i assume the keyboardist at ur band in church improvises as well?without a score?

haha playing at sunday school is cool! and yup the keyboardists at my church have to do some improvisations here and there. playing a particular song the same way every time it is played can get quite boring at times haha.

don't let the thought of it scare you ya, it will come with time, as long as you keep your ears open. can learn from how other people play.

 

[pf]

Yeah. Imagine! With improvisation, a common song such as Somewhere over the Rainbow can be played in a few hundred over different ways. Just search youtube.