Advice For Soft-Scene Newbie Needed...

[jsmusic]

Hi people,

Am planning to do a small setup at home doing arrangements, with perhaps only a new computer, a keyboard controller, some solid VST instruments, samples and a couple of hardware modules..... Been seeing tascam gigastudio online for sometime, any experts care to share good readings/or explain more to me? Help is very, very much appreciated... Hoping to do this setup so that i can compose and arrange in the comfort of my home and wun need to spend hours cooped up at my workplace's studio. I have been more of a hardware guy, the previous experience with soft-scene wasn't all that pleasant with irritating latencies, and total lack of "hands-on feel"... Any one uses DP here, and also runs soft-scene samples/VST instruments?


Cheers
Wil

 

[Cheez]

Hi. I was on the same track as you - a hardware person. When I went into softsamplers, I sold almost all my hardware. Most of them became redundant. Nowadays, softsynths and softsamplers have very low latencies.

I've been using Gigastudio since it was version 1.5 (then known as gigasampler). It is basically a softsampler. Benefits of softsamplers compared to hardware sampler - 1. very fast loading time (few seconds to load 1GB worth of samples - hardware takes forever). 2. streaming lets you play samples that are huge (GB in size, no longer MB) - that also means that you don't need any more loops for instruments. Each instrument is recorded until it decays naturally. 3. All the benfits of a PC (large monitor, quick editing function etc).

Depending on your setup, you should be able to get polyphony more than 120 (nowadays, we get 200-300 notes polyphony, although somebody did report 400-500 notes polyphony).

You may also want to check out Kontakt - another softsampler. Each has their pros and cons. GS boast of its extreme low latency (running at kernel level), gigapulse (really good impulse), iMidi rules. Kontakt has the advantage of being able to incorporate better into the sequencer being VSTi (GS does not). The programming in Kontakt is also very good - some sample developers have migrated over to producing Kontakt samples instead of GS because they felt the programming is more flexible and extensive than GS.

I'm actually thinking of migrating to Kontakt just because of the bad tech support I've been getting from Tascam.

Softsamplers power comes with writing orchestral music when realism is important. If you're into loop sequencing/techno stuffs, softsynths is OK. There are lots of them out there. A few quick names: Spectrasonics (Stylus, Atmosphere, Trilogy), Native Instruments, East West, Zero-G etc etc.

 

[jsmusic]

Geez....thx!

Hi there,

I appreciate your kind n fast move in replying my thread! Actually i dun own any hardware, it's just plain luck that i always work in environments that provide tons of harware, and i have been using them ever since i started working on compositions and stuff. Well, it has been discussed and debated over and over again on the pros and cons between hard and soft synths..... While soft synths work wonders with loops and rhythm stuff given the availability of loops samples and loops-based sequencers like Reason, Rebirth, Fruity Loops etc.....I find it hard to obtain sounds like piano, strings that sounds as great as those of our beloved roland Xvs, Korg's triton etc....How would you guys agree or object to this though?

Unfortunately it's a sad fact that in this part of the world, we do get quite shitty technical support from the makers of many music equipments. It's always incredibly a long and tedious process to just get, say our akai samplers to breah again whenever it dies on us... Doesn't surprise me to hear that tascam is also lacking a little on their customer/technical support.... Hm, the Kontakt you mentioned, i will google around for more info on it, thanks very much. Hm, i'm more of a mac person when it comes to arranging as i've always been taught to do so.... Thus intending to get my own powerbook or a g5, but how true is the myth about pcs dun work that well when it comes to arranging music?

So let's presume, with either a new pc/mac, and a kool soft-sampler that works well with VSTis, an audio interface, keyboard ctrller and a sequencer like DP or logic, i'm ready to rock and roll? =)

 

[teraslasch]

" but how true is the myth about pcs dun work that well when it comes to arranging music? "
Its not true at all. I suggest you use PC if ure not familiar with Mac but it's your choice. And you said piano, strings samples are hard to find but they arent.If you're looking for realistic sounds, you can try Orchestra Sample Libraries.

"So let's presume, with either a new pc/mac, and a kool soft-sampler that works well with VSTis, an audio interface, keyboard ctrller and a sequencer like DP or logic, i'm ready to rock and roll? =)"

You can say that..

Btw, im interested to know whether you're doing this for hobby or for work?

 

[Cheez]

Re: Geez....thx!

While soft synths work wonders with loops and rhythm stuff given the availability of loops samples and loops-based sequencers like Reason, Rebirth, Fruity Loops etc.....I find it hard to obtain sounds like piano, strings that sounds as great as those of our beloved roland Xvs, Korg's triton etc....How would you guys agree or object to this though?

Well, well. You haven't heard anything yet my friend! Softsamplers samples blow any hardware modules anytime in terms of realism. I don't use loops - Gigastudio's power is in realism. We can get piano samples with 32 different velocity samples, 16 pedal down and 16 pedal up - chromatically sampled, each note sampled without looping (ie decay naturally). Even with the latest XV don't even come close to this. And we load one giant instrument like this in seconds. And we have grand pianos for both classical (Bosendorfer 290, Steinway C and D, Yamaha C ) and for jazz and pop(Malmsjo grand etc). Also have upright pianos.

As for strings, you get articulations like legato, spiccato, staccato, col legno, pizzicato etc etc at multiple velocites - all loaded into ONE sample with keyswitching. Nowadays, we also get true legato - ie they sample the effect of say a note played from C to G (a slight sliding effect) - each interval sampled (ie C-C#, C-D, C-D#, C-E etc etc) - this is not portamento but TRUE legato!

Here's something just to whet you appetitie in terms of realism - I'm only posting some links - not exhaustive (check out demos).
1. Piano: Post Instruments, Sampletekk,

2. Strings (and orchestral instruments): Vienna Symphonic Library (only library with true legato), Sonic Implants Symphonic Collection, Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra (in Kontakt)

Of course there's choir that actually lets you type in the words to sing and the sample actually sing the words with vowels and consonants, ethnic instruments, drums, basses, e-guitars etc etc.

 

[Cheez]

Oh maybe I should add that my problems with tech support is nothing to do with stability. My system is extremely stable and reliable with hours of non-stop working. Very important in big projects.

My problem is mainly with registration. I re-installed it in a different partition and somehow registration doesn't work anymore. Tascam guys not helping much, and in the end ignored all my emails. That really frustrated me.

 

[jsmusic]

Oh man...

I shall turn my full attention on the soft-synths now, i guess...... What you quoted seems amazing..... And with the convenience of buying samples just by choosing and adding to the shopping cart, only to receive the products few days later at our doorstep seems so incredibly exciting.... Well defintely check out all the sites you quoted.... Geez, i've got tonnes to read up on, and so little time.... Missed the softies gathering yesterday, guess i missed out much on interacting with fellow arrangers/ composers/musicians..... Perhaps we could meet up some day to lim kopi and if you don't mind the hassle, haha, showing me practically the wonders of soft-samples you're using and the convenience of running them in sequncers. What desktop do you use btw, pc p4 or mac, and what sequencer? I'm kinda interested to know which are the particular soft-samplers that are compatible in either logic or DP.... but if i'm using either of these two sequncers, guess i haf to get a mac first as both only runs on macs, it seems......

 

[lowjk]

Re: Oh man...

I shall turn my full attention on the soft-synths now, i guess...... What you quoted seems amazing..... And with the convenience of buying samples just by choosing and adding to the shopping cart, only to receive the products few days later at our doorstep seems so incredibly exciting....

I know. The only thing that stops me from doing this online buying more often is the Mrs & $$$.

 

[jsmusic]

OOps....

Its not true at all. I suggest you use PC if ure not familiar with Mac but it's your choice. And you said piano, strings samples are hard to find but they arent.If you're looking for realistic sounds, you can try Orchestra Sample Libraries.

Btw, im interested to know whether you're doing this for hobby or for work?

Forgot to reply you, teraslasch! Apologies.... Hm, i'm rather new to the local composing/arrangement scene, been around for 3-4 years, and have always been using macs to work on my stuff, so i guess a mac mite suit me more then a pc.... in fact, i might be clueless where to start on if i start doing on pcs... m too accustomed to no "right" click on the mouse...

As for your question, mm, it's more for work actually... as i said, i can spend day n night in studio at work wifout coming home... wif a setup at home i could choose to, well, perhaps just to bring some work to do at home, work out the rhythm/bass section of my songs first b4 bringing back to office n transfer back to my workstation and viola! continue working....haha...

so, so.....guess i got the answers i needed! shall read up more on soft-synths seriously, hm, tho much too late but hope i'm able to do some catching up! thx so much guy! looking forward to exchanging more ideas and learning fom your experiences! [/quote]

 

[teraslasch]

Re: OOps....

haha.. ok... for work? ure a proffesional arranger? haha.. me only 15 yrs old but im already looking for work in this industry and i plan to study music production & engineering + Song writing. May i know wad work experience u have and can i listen to some of ur works?

 

[Cheez]

Don't confuse softsynths with softsamplers. Different way of getting sound out. One is a synth and one is a sampler.

Anyhow, Emagic's softsampler is the EXSII. If you're using Logic 6 and above in Mac, it should be part of the package and built-in. There are a number of samples that already run in it, including VSL.

Gigastudio runs with basically any sequencer. It is not a plug-in. The sequencer starts from within Gigastudio. The reason it is not a plug-in is that it runs at kernel level and so it manages to utilize max power from the PC. Kontakt, being a plug-in, also works with any sequencers. But it runs from within the sequencer. That makes it slightly easier to use (being integrated with the sequencer) but perhaps slightly less efficient. When running the demo version of Kontakt, I noticed distinct increased latency with Kontakt than compared with GS.

There are other softsamplers. Halion is from Steinberg. Samplecell is another one. But the 2 competitors are really Gigastudio and Kontakt. They are, in my opinion, the more stable and efficient softsamplers of the lot.

As for my setup - I'm using a P4 running the outdated Logic 5 (I was really angry with them to discard supporting PC...). Gigastudio is my sampler. Got rid of all my external modules etc. Used the money to buy samples instead.

 

[jsmusic]

Yes, have starting doing some stuff as work, for money. I believe there are many fellow arrangers/composers in here as well reading up on the wealth of knowledge contributed by experienced softies... Hm, as for sharing, nothing much really.... Most of my works in past jobs are more or less in the tv, as i was doing mostly ad jingles, for local as well as overseas projects... not very convenient to broadcast those shitty stuff over the net as there r rights issues... Paiseh, hope you can understand.

Yes cheez! Thanks for your input again! I WAS using EXSII on Mac OS 9.2 previously in logic, but the latency was so shitty i gave up on it and stuck to my hardware. I m kinda surprised that pcs work as well as macs in music production, as i always had the idea there'll be lesser probs with latencies in macs den pcs....

So i suppose soft-synths, soft-samplers, what i should be getting is really a soft-sampler since i can load up any piano samples and be ready to work inmy sequencer? Would it be, well, pardon my ignorance, be like opening several midi tracks in the sequence, and assign different soft-sampler channels to the different tracks? What are the possible range we are looking at, cheez? A rough estimate on geting a soft-sampler, or soft-synth after i read up on which is the one i really need, budled with some sample package?

 

[Cheez]

Re:

Gigastudio does not run on Macs. Depending on your budget, you can get something from 300USD to thousands of USD. If you're tight on budget, my suggestion is Garritan Personal Ochestral (GPO). It has Kontakt built-in so you don't need to get a softsampler. It has an entire template of orchestral instruments including a Steinway piano. It cost only 279USD. Garritan is also now taking pre-orders for his Jazz and Big-band library. Amazing instruments including the screaming trumpet and great saxophones (the most difficult instrument to sample). The website:
http://www.garritan.com/

GPO is pretty good. It's been used in various TV series including CSI.

What is your budget?

 

[jsmusic]

Hm..

My budget chould be under 2k, excluding a loan i might be taking up for a new powerbook.... on top of powerbook, haf to get a mobile audio interface, a trustworthy n honest monitor headfones (as i most probably dun intend to get speakers), and buying software like Dp as well as either a soft-synth or soft-sampler...

i haf one burning question still....still cant really figure out whatz diff betwn the soft0synth and soft-sampler..... a soft-synth is like say, roland XVs, wif a whole arsenal of different sounds, drum kits etc....whereas a soft-sampler works like say, akai sampler, where we need to buy samples to load into the soft-sampler? which is more suitable for me in my context, where i do mostly pop song arrangemets?the GPO seems more suitable for the classical composer or people who compose orchestral music intensively? i dun need a whole orchestra for a pop sonh, though i could always use the realism in the strings, woodwind section etc..... what i really need in a soft-form is really more like getting, say, a roland xv, in soft-module form... :/ hmm...wonder if u could understand what i mean...

 

[DominiX]

then a ROMpler will be just nice for what u need.

my fave for working out parts is Steinberg
Hypersonic

and Steinberg Xphaze

these r good tools to start out with and basically easy to use and sounds pretty good...

softsynths work more like analoge/early digital syths and based on signals like

waveforms, ocillators, amplifier, modulators, Low-Freq Ocillators, envelope filters....

something like the moogs...

http://www.museresearch.com/kvr/i/b/minimoogv.jpg

but because we can do a lot of stuff in computers now.... programmers use their

imagination and added things like ,Granular, Wavetable, Subtractive, Additive, Phase

Distortion, Hybrid, Modular..... u get the idea.[/url]

 

[DominiX]

Softsamplers work like the Akais, E-mus, and other hardware samplers. the advatage is such as there is more hard disk space in a computer hdd. that u don't need to load up the samples like u used to in the Akais. Its much faster and because the samples are now in high-quality 24bits, and so much information.... u don't wanna use that 32MB Akai machine anymore. of cause there r now the modern headaches of Disk Streaming and RAM. GigaStudio was the pioneer of disk streaming technology. this made it work fast and thus u could run with so much polyphony till ur harddisk slows down....then dropout.....hehhehe

find out that u need. DP is a nice tool. but theres a big learning curve and the interface is not that attractive. Logic is very nice. but it can only support Audio Units. u'll need to purchase the VST to AU adapter from FXpansion if u need to . then theres Protools LE. which u'll need to if u wanna get lots of clients. not because its industrial standard. but its ONLY what the layman knows.....like A&R ppl or Talent scouts, "ERR.... Ur studio got protools or not? eerr... Don't have ah?......sorry ah....BYE BYE.... I need to use protools.....can get pro sound....Bye"

 

[DominiX]

I use a PC and running stuff like Tracktion and FLStudio and have a pretty good soundcard and Latencies as low as 1.5ms at 24bit/48kHz. can run tonnes of tracks and softsynths, romplers and samplers in 24 hour sessions. and only gotta reboot once because need to boot the other "INTERNET partition" to send the song to the client via email.
I love my PC.

U can get a mac. but my advice is wait till 2006 when Apple ports all their stuff to INTEL. then the G4 powerbook price will reallly drop to the ground..

Cheers,
Dom

 

[jsmusic]

Cool...

Hi,

Thx domnix for ur input.......i see...so what i would really be needing den should be pretty much a soft-sampler....not much chances of my using a moog in a pop song arrangement, so guess my money would be better invested ina better sequencer and a whole library of samples....yes, heard about the apple move in 2006 too, so guess it'll be much smarter to hold out till then....meanwhile i could always stock up on the samples and wait till the time is right to get the powerbook i need!!!

I have been using several sequencers in these 3-4 years or more... using protools to seqeunce is a foolish thing to do, when there r more dedicated progs to sequencing... logic, in my opinion, provides most ease n comfort to the arranger as it...works wif perfect logic...haha, simple to understand and yet provides many editing tools that could let me edit my music in the fastest way.... but due to a switch in work environment, have recently crossed over to dp to sequence my stuff... also quite cool, the interface looks fine to me too, just that i hate the sequence window which has such a small overview of all the tracks and you can't maxmizie the page!!!!!!!!! haf to view in the tracks window instead.......arghh...

Heard there's latencies when working soft-samples in dp....haf to check out if there's any truth in the statement though..... meanwhile....it's time to check out the net for great samples to stock up!!!!!!!!! den next big thing would be getting a trustworthy headfones.... thinking of getting beyer or akg.. think i saw a thread on headphone somewhere ard in here, shall go dig it out and see what others have shared about them..

 

[LuZeR]

There are other softsamplers. Halion is from Steinberg. Samplecell is another one. But the 2 competitors are really Gigastudio and Kontakt.

Anyone knows where to get them in Singapore and how much are they priced?

 

[qfactor]

I think you meant SOFTSYNTH not SOFT-SCENE!!

QF