Zoom H4 Owners'/WTBuyers' Read. Potential 1st Recording Gear Review haha..

[blueprintstudios]

Zoom H4 Owners/WTBuyers Read.Potential 1st Recording Gear Review.. Read 1st 3 POSTS!

Ok hello people, yes it's me again. softie "dir" pmed me which I thought it was just about time to go into detail what H4 is about and how it is via tests of it. james(soft) pls create a "Pro Audio/Recording Gear" Review section when you're free. I'll be updating this thread with videos/photos/audio and lots of text.

So what are we talking about?
check out who's using it @ http://zoomh4.net/
and the main site here

the PM goes...

Hey man, I read somewhere on the forums before that you had a zoom h4. I have a few questions regarding. Have you tried recording with external mics? How is the sound quality? I heard not so good things about the preamps for the external mics. I'm thinking of getting one for a cheap solution to record 4 track drums, but would like to get some opinions first.
Thanks,
Khidir

first of all, in case you get mistaken, when you say 4track drums .. Zoom H4 has a 4-track recorder function, but you cannot record simultaneously 4 tracks you know right? because there's only
Mic Mode : using zoom H4 mics ONLY stereo recording. (16/44.1,16/48,24/96khz)
Input Mode : using zoom inputs ONLY (no mics) stereo recording. (16.44.1)

you can't inter-mix recording one mic and one input or record all 4 at once using 2 mics + 2 inputs simultaneously.

for example, 1) we record stereo drums..
#1-Drums L
#2-Drums R
#3-Blank
#4-Blank
2) we record guitar (MONO) on #3 while listening to #1,2 as "guide drums".
3) we record bass (MONO) on #4, while listening to #1,2,3 as "guide drum/guitar"

so what if you wanna record vocals and listen to all guitar/bass/drums? that's where you "MIXDOWN" all 4 tracks into a new "guitardrumbass.wav(STEREO)" and arm them to :
#1-guitardrumbass (LEFT).wav
#2-guitardrumbass (RIGHT).wav
#3-blank
#4-blank

then that leaves you room to record vocals and back vocals. etc etc, the rest you gotta read the manual. Zoom or citymusic doesn't pay me for this hahah..

and regarding the poor feedback about preamp, yes I've read about it. there's a professional studio or something that actually reviewed INTENSIVELY. running through analyzers and all that weird stuff beyond my understanding, but basically layman saying : noisy preamp. not to replace the real deal preamp.

as a former user of Behringer (EW! EW! I know i know, thats what some of you say) preamp, i think this zoom one can pass la.. sounds okay in my mp3s.
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[blueprintstudios]

yes I've been testing it with a band I've been recording called Rika. first download this link :
http://www.box.net/shared/2fd8xdj40g

[Zoom H4 as a standalone SDcard stereo recorder + onboard H4 XY mics]
TN_2008-06-08 - 03.46.35.jpg = drums recording @ the bassist's workplace, videoproduction studio.. so basically what you're seeing here is a fully 7 miked drumset > my Korg D888 multitrack recorder.
then I added in a zoom H4 in front of the drums to test the sound. I set as stereo recorder mode.

[Zoom H4 as USB audio interface, using the line inputs with a low spec laptop]
TN_2008-06-09 - 23.23.41.jpg = guitarist 1 recording @ his bedroom. in this situation I used H4 as a USB audio interface with an Asus EEE 4G PC (900mhz,512mb ram, and 4GB harddisk) the fender mustang guitars are recorded D.I through a Zoom 505ii. so far preamps as a line input is fine.

TN_2008-06-10 - 20.41.57.jpg = guitarist 2 recording @ guitarist 1's bedroom the next night. same setup, using a gibson lucille. and in case you were wondering, thats my wife behind. we're watching a hilarious stephen chow movie showing on CH8 during recording.

TN_2008-06-10 - 20.59.15.jpg = as above.

[Zoom H4 as USB audio interface, using the XLR inputs with a low spec laptop]
TN_2008-06-18 - 22.48.06.jpg = vocals recording @ same place as the drumset at the videoproduction studio. this time what you see here is a dynamic mic audix i5 + a vocal condenser rode NTK > H4 as a usb audio interface. sounds fine too as an XLR input. but the NTK has its own power supply, and the i5 is dynamic no need phantompower.

to hear the audio of all these photos =
http://www.box.net/shared/pubpwl1mo8

what you hear here is raw H4micsstereodrumsrecording for 1st 19 seconds, then the raw D888 multitrack recording then the Bass D.I into the D888 the same session, then after that as above, the Zoom H4 recordings as an audio interface with the zoom 505ii , and the vocals raw mixed.
although the zoom H4 drums stereo recording sounds "better" than the D888, remember that I have 7 individual tracks of the drums so manipulation of the sound during mixing is totally possible.

[Zoom H4 as a Microphone Emulator/Modeller]
what I've yet to try is, when using the Zoom H4 mics, there's an emulation for SM57/U87/C414 etc. it was too late recording Rika that night. so i was too tired already, next day still got dayjob work. I may arrange with Rika's vocalist to do me one demo vocal track with my fake "Neumann U87". but I will actually try A/B mic up a guitar amp Shure SM57 with the Zoom's "SM57" . i don't have a C414 nor U87. but will try those anyway.

[Zoom H4 as a Guitar/Bass D.I CabinetSimulator]
and onboard the zoom H4 for D.I recording there's Bass amp / Guitar Amp emulation also. equivalent to Zoom G2. so that one not yet tested. since you already heard the Zoom 505ii pedal (which I bought for like $50 2nd hand) later when I cover this aspect you'll be able to compare. so basically there's a chance it COULD be used as a guitar pedal , but that's if you use DISTORTION throughout a song or CLEAN throughout. guitar > zoom H4 > amp. (there's a LINE OUT) this one I gotta test too.

so when I get to cover the "emulations", I'll have one proper final mix + one "purely zoom H4" mix to let you check it out.

[Zoom H4 as a Tuner]
there's onboard tuner in the zoom H4, tested that, it's abit laggy though, like a cheap $20 tuner probably.. great if you "forgot to bring your better tuner"

apart from these, there's more...

[Zoom H4 with XLR input Rode NT3 mics as a standalone SD recorder and "phantom power supplier"]
this one is to make sure no "latency" when recording 2 inputs at once. as we all know stereo overheads are very important. so this is a video snippet with the final mixed audio of a nice young lady playing Liza by george gershwin on the piano recorded and filmed in her bedroom. the phantom power is supplied to both condensers , at first I tested using the 2 x AA batteries to power 2 condensors! it surprisingly works well... for 10 mins hahah. before it starts to show battery flat. so had to hook up the power adapter.

http://www.box.net/shared/h342pvoiso

[Zoom H4 as a field/location recorder using onboard H4 XY mics.]
for plainsunset cd launch at zouk, I was standing like 10 metres away , and I'm concerned with the H4 audio clipping, so it's recorded at low levels. what you hear here for the 1st 25 seconds (DO NOT INCREASE YOUR SPEAKER VOLUME!) it's the raw, then 26th onwards it's mixed/edited/loud-ened. this one must depend on the live sound engineer how he mix la. if he live mix like crap no amount of editing will make it right.

http://www.box.net/shared/bphd2dgysk

[Zoom H4 as a livemixer feed recorder]
from Stage > Live Mixer > 1) goes to the PA speakers 2) goes to zoom H4 via either RCA converted to 1/4jack line input or XLR inputs. this one I've yet to test.will update. most of the live engineers dislike me cos I "get in their way" (seriously i don't know how, but i get attitude problem from em) for tapping ONLY 2 outputs..

[Zoom H4 as a USB Soundcard]
pretty alright. the 1st time installation is abit confusing, need to on/off a few times or something.

[Zoom H4's Battery Lifespan]
uses 2 AA batts. I used Eveready ones.. drained out damn easily within minutes. I use Energizer ones, quite ok surprisingly lasted pretty well. I've ordered Sanyo Eneloop rechargeable ones. will feedback again.

[Zoom H4's "Armor"]
I dropped it twice from a height of 1 metre. I think it's fine cos there's no "moving parts". i'm not selling this H4 ever so i don't mind "admitting" that I dropped it. i'm honest.

[Zoom H4 as an SD Card reader]
depends on your SD card speed, I have a SDHC (yes it reads up to 16gb SDHC) 8gb and 4gb. and a 2gb 50x speed. the reading speed is terrible on the 8gb/4gb but storage capacity is there. i'll probably be saving for a 2gb 150x speed.

 

[blueprintstudios]

post position reserved for 3rd set of 5000 words if I got more to say.

 

[dir]

well you don't have to make a whole thread about it now!

haha, thanks for the information dude. At least I can cross it off my to-buy list now. Guess I have to spend serious cash for some decent mics and a good mixer/preamp. Anyone have any good deals to get some good kick drum mics or condensers (d112, d6, beta 52, 91, SM81 et al)

 

[blueprintstudios]

haha sorry about that. but very much earlier about 2 months back i think, before I bought this new toy, james and I spoke about reviewing the H4 on a more serious scale. not one of those repeated "yeah it rocks, what you can do with it just put there and record" kind of simple reviews. but hands-on detailed aspect. so just nice I was recording rika and I happen to have all the audio + photos etc with me now and you pmed me so I thought what better time to put it all up.

 

[dir]

it's a great write up and pretty comprehensive information to everyone who ever wanted to know more about the intricate aspects of the H4. Thanks much for it, you're going to save a lot of research time for many people. I would give you my lowly + but it says I have to spread it around before giving again!

 

[blueprintstudios]

haha thanks. well any other Zoom H4 owners would like to share problems/ask questions/contribute ideas?

 

[ac]

just off the top of my head.

The zoom h4 has low grade crystals for timing. What it means is that if you're trying to sync up the audio to something like a video cam, you're going to experience some sort of drifting.

The latest firmware upgrades provides battery information.

Never use the in built mic levels to boost or lower. It's all done in software anyway. i.e. if you're using it in a concert and you're peaking, just lower the mic sensitivity.

The inbuilt mics are easily overloaded on bass frequencies.

The h4 is a tank, made of plastic. But compared to quite a lot of other stuff in the price range, it's well worth it.

 

[jesus]

the zoom H4 is alright but i do own the zoom H2.
i believe is a better recorder than anything else i have owned.
the H2's simple plug and play capability is why i changed my H4 t o the H2.
a 1G SD card allows you to record 1.5 hrs on wav format.
also the mic is 4 way selectable, 90deg, 180deg.
its compact and hardy, i dropped it a couple of times and its still functions well as when i bought it.

 

[THOA]

I'm never a fan of in-built mics. What makes H4 appealing is the xlr and 1/4" line inputs, which is an improvement from the 1/8" inputs on most MDs and some tape recorders.

Good attempt to kick start a gear review. A little bit hard to read for me though, maybe cos there's a lot of info clumped together. Also, those who are technically less inclined will have a hard time understanding some bits of your write up.

 

[blueprintstudios]

ac : oh great, you also got that sync problem? at first i thought it was because my sd card too slow or something. so i didn't really dare to "broadcast" this problem until I've confirmed. I've been searching for forums with answers to that, cos I thought it's probably a firmware bug etc. I hope they come up with a firmware that fixes this soon. or at least hope it's not a hardware bug. the latency problem seems to lie between the inbuilt mics > the recording medium. but not the SD card. because the piano recording I did with the Rode NT3s > XLR inputs > Zoom H4 was perfect sync with my vidcam. so it can't be the SDcard.

this latency drift seems to be quite a serious problem eh.

and yes that bass frequencies, I did alot of lows roll off during editing/mixing stage.

jesus : my next "to-do + review" is to see if Zoom H2 has this sync problem towards the video. my friend has a zoom h2, will probably give it a shot with it. but the feedback I get from Zoom H2 is pretty good too. the whole "dropped a few times but no problems" thingy.

THOA : yeah man, XLR / ¼ jack input + phantompower + preamp etc for that price is worth it for alot of people.

sorry about the info disorganisation. it was rush typed and there're still "To-Dos" which i don't have the time to test until I have recording scheduled. i will consider "narrating what i typed" through a youtube video with and hands on footage also. that should work out better.

but what I didn't quite understand is : "those who are technically less inclined will have a hard time understanding some bits" for real? which bits man? i thought I tried to explain as layman as I could haha.. without drawing it out (that one idiot proof already) on mspaint or somethin.

 

[dir]

jesus : my next "to-do + review" is to see if Zoom H2 has this sync problem towards the video. my friend has a zoom h2, will probably give it a shot with it. but the feedback I get from Zoom H2 is pretty good too. the whole "dropped a few times but no problems" thingy.

eagerly awaiting this, was wondering just how bad the drifting on the H2 is!

 

[blueprintstudios]

i've been speaking with a few zoom H4/H2 owners and citymusic and zoom japan themselves. will report in a week's time after a few experiments.

 

[THOA]

but what I didn't quite understand is : "those who are technically less inclined will have a hard time understanding some bits" for real? which bits man? i thought I tried to explain as layman as I could haha.. without drawing it out (that one idiot proof already) on mspaint or somethin.

Lol, no need to go into MS Paint, bro

I think the confusion can set in because of the fact you went a little too detailed with the OTHER gears that you are using with it as well. For example:

"in this situation I used H4 as a USB audio interface with an Asus EEE 4G PC (900mhz,512mb ram, and 4GB harddisk) the fender mustang guitars are recorded D.I through a Zoom 505ii. so far preamps as a line input is fine."

"what you hear here is raw H4micsstereodrumsrecording for 1st 19 seconds, then the raw D888 multitrack recording then the Bass D.I into the D888 the same session, then after that as above, the Zoom H4 recordings as an audio interface with the zoom 505ii , and the vocals raw mixed."

"what I've yet to try is, when using the Zoom H4 mics, there's an emulation for SM57/U87/C414 etc. it was too late recording Rika that night. so i was too tired already, next day still got dayjob work. I may arrange with Rika's vocalist to do me one demo vocal track with my fake "Neumann U87". but I will actually try A/B mic up a guitar amp Shure SM57 with the Zoom's "SM57" . i don't have a C414 nor U87. but will try those anyway."

It's great to see that you are testing out the H4 with all your gears (and let me add, you have a mighty fine line up of gears! *GAS!*), but I think alot of things like D888, Zoom 505ii, DI, SM57/U87/C414 etc, a newbie might not understand or know, and it might create more confusion than it helps.

Also, as I said before, I find the information a little hard to digest cos you went straight to demo. I'm not saying that your review is not useful. It is definitely detailed, and the gear geeks among us definitely appreciates it. The thing is, for me, I am quite familiar with most of what you are saying, but someone who just want this for a specific function (recording band demo or live location sound) and is thinking of using only this without any supplementary gear, they might find it a little too intimidating.

I would suggest (and this IS a suggestion, not something you have to adhere to, really):

- Start of what the Zoom H4 is. A small description as an introduction to the device.

Eg:
Zoom H4 is a digital multi track recording device, which allows users to record in digital format. However, H4 has loads of features that pretty much expands its capability beyond just a simple recording device; it has a built-in studio effects such as compression, limiting, mic modeling, external inputs for mics and line, guitar and bass amp modelling, as well as a USB capabilities for direct to PC connections, which effectively makes it a functionally capable digital audio interface as well. More on those functions later.

- Then perhaps go into the physical specs and features, like how many 1/4"/XLR inputs and outputs does it have, how many batteries. does it need and what type etc (I know, I know these info can find over the net, but some people are just plain lazy. Also, most reviews on gear mags do have a short brief mention on some of the basic features as well.

- Then perhaps go into the highlights/specific features (like the mic modelers, studio effects etc) that are not available on any other device and your personal experience in using them: what do you personally like about it? Or do you find them an overkill, or even a nuisance? Other specific things that you might want to highlight are concerns that people might have, like what they REALLY mean when they say "4 tracks" (like what Dir had wanted to know).

- Of course, next comes the sound quality, especially the use of the in built mic, mic modeler, amp modeler, effects, etc. Including a demo would be great (but you have already done so, so yeah)

- Can the review with a summary of sort, in terms of overall value, and perhaps where further info can read about it, or where we can buy it from.

I know there are some things that I mention that you have already included in your review. I am being generic with my comments, more looking into how any reviews could be done. So yeah, I guess it just need to be a tiny bit more trimmings.

I hope I am making sense and being helpful with my comments.

Cheers!

 

[ac]

Are you sure the sync with a nt3 and the vidcam is fine? The problem should be independent of the mics used. I think with the low grade timing crystals, the drift would be inconsistent for each device, so a hardcoded firmware fix might not be possible.

 

[blueprintstudios]

ac :
well when I did the girl's liza gershwin piano audio recording + video, I didn't realise the H4 drift problem yet , and it wasn't even obvious cos the H4 audio sat in nicely in sync with the videocam's audio! and I left the H4 to record for an hour plus. no out of sync at all!only until recently I did the plainsunset video where the footage runs for about 45 mins to an hour. at first I thought it was a problem with my SDHC card , like slow or something. but can't be cos I did a recording on 50x speed sd card.
so again I thought it was something wrong with my DAW or my H4 ,I checked the firmware I checked everything it was fine, until I googled, and damn it's all over the net.. so now that you ask me this question again, what can I say, I don't think I'm sure! hahah, I WILL try again to be very sure and film it down.

but again I do guitar/bass D.I recording and Rode NTK vocal mic into the H4, it's perfect sync/timing. so doesn't seem to have drift problems with the XLR/quart jack inputs.

thats why I believe the problem lies in between the inbuilt mics > SD card recording. I will go into this in detail with tests (and filmed on video cam). I'm buying another Zoom H4 from a friend again and just to be sure if different drift problem varies between different H4s. I contacted citymusic too, maybe I can even review the sync problem in detail with 3 H4s + 1 H2. at citymusic.

THOA : ahh ok, sorry i'm not too good with my presentation hehe. actually I've been thinking of scrapping the typed out reviews. and put it straight into video narration, youtube style. and yeah like you said I went straight into demo because I wanted to skip all over-repeated "introduction to H4" that's all over the net. and to include other "bedroom recording level" gears to compare the sound/possibilities/flexibilities and also I specially mentioned the 900mhz 512mb ram asus eee because the specs are so crappy compared to the average desktop PC and I perform fine with it! know what I mean? heheh.. but thanks for all the highlights too! I have a better idea of how to put it the next trial. like split the videos section for the [newbies] , and for the [more serious ones].

I've been concerned about whether to further "broadcast" this drift problem of H4s , as if I'm bringing a bad reputation to it. but then again because H4 is really flexible and great for its price and that ever-updating firmware version. I think honesty is the best policy, hopefully it'll encourage zoom to fix this problem asap and make it as perfect as it's capable of.

 

[THOA]

Ah, I see. Now I get what you are trying to do.

Well, perhaps the sort of "introduction-to-h2" review is like all over the net and may seem like a boring idea, but it's a familiar format which I personally don't mind reading, because everyone of them offer different perspectives and thoughts into the device they are reviewing. If you were to go by that tried and tested way, what makes yours different is that we are familiar with who you are (a fellow softie!), and we damn sure knows that you are not getting paid for a bias review, lol.

But yeah, that's just my opinion on this. I think a Youtube demo would be a great idea! It has more reach, so you won't just be helping Softies, but in fact anyone who happen to search for reviews of a specific gear.

Really looking forward to the next gear you are planning to review. Good luck to you, sir.

 

[blueprintstudios]

haha thank you. actually even if i'm not paid, but I AM biased with this H4 because I vote for anything that's cost efficient. (low cost, and very efficient) and besides it's a pity when someone reviews says "buy zoom h4, 4 tracker for demos, and stereo recorder for jam session" and you pay like $350-$400 for it. sounds expensive!

but if you put it this way : a "guitar/bass processor D.I (usually cost $100 and above)" , "2 XY condenser mics (usually cost $100) with mic modelling capability" , "tuner ($25)" , "XLR/¼jack inputs x2 preamp with phantom power ($??, lets say $200)" , "inbuilt compressor/limiter efx" , "Portability, runs on 2xAA Batts (usually ppl have to pay loads for portability)" , "audio interface" etc etc etc I can go on about what I've previously posted but I'll save it for the video.. but now that I've listed it's got more plus points than minus for that kind of cost.

i posted a H4 drift problem audio update in the Zoom H2 thread :
http://soft.com.sg/forum/gear-sound/48641-zoom-h2-2.html#post672113

hopefully in the long run i'll be able to cover more bedroom level cost based recording gear, like the often mentioned Presonus fp10 / line6 toneport ux2s , etc etc as well as further new invented toys on the recording shelf. i'm not expecting much attention from the professionals here who's handled huge mixer consoles and working in big studios, more for youths aged 16 - 40 years old who just wants more bang from their spare buck.

be right back after these messages...

20¢ worth

 

[blueprintstudios]

latest update : I've found (well someone else in the world discovered the fix, I "found" his fix among the many forums in the world) the fix! comparing at the end of a 8 minute recording.

the time-drift-H4.wav turns out to be 122milisecond (which is alot) drift.
the FIXED-H4.wav is only 7 - 9 miliseconds drift which is very normal.

I'll be getting the other zoom h4 real soon to confirm this fix works for more than 1 zoom H4. cheers.

 

[blueprintstudios]

by the way.. i thank all who take their time to read this thread. i'm surprised james(soft) put up on the main page even though this review hasn't been "completed". I've been busy with some personal projects of my own. but rest assured this will not fade out half way. I already spoke to a voluntary band to help test out the H4 in august. as well as city music's support (thanks to yeegn lougn and burn) for allowing me to cover more other gear (like Zoom H2).

I will be putting H4 to the test for "speech/vocals only situation" on a short drama/theatre act @ Nanyang poly this friday.

and has anyone watched Arts Central's "Frequency Of the City : Campus Edition" ? isn't it interesting, they say Zoom H2's mics are same level quality as Zoom H4. so in a way, a new purpose for Zoom H4/H2 is that they work great as "Location Sound Collectors". used in the rain, used near a carrot cake frying pan, and a porsche exhaust with the engine revving.

till the next update.