ShyamRaj
New member
hahah sounds like a plan man . we have a new song which doesnt have lyrics yet.. Maybe we will play it on the 11th man! thanks for the idea dude
Now listen here new bands...Exploited Scene in target
- Thread starter ShyamRaj
- Start date
hahah sounds like a plan man . we have a new song which doesnt have lyrics yet.. Maybe we will play it on the 11th man! thanks for the idea dude
theunknown
New member
easy peasy: u want to perform gigs, yet dont wanna trust any gig organisers? make your own gig. the lost and all consequences, YOU get.
some gig organisers are just professionals who carry out events. its a BUSINESS. BUSINESS is MAKING MONEY. of course they have to make money. because that is their objective.
yet, there are gig organisers who make the gig out of passion for music and to create opportunities for bands here. like one i know, the gig organiser himself has his own band in the list, and he himself has to sell tickets, like he ask the other bands too.
whatever it is, making gig needs money. everything also need money. its just that sharing money with other bands to make a gig sounds so much better and is more transparent than paying organisers to make one for u. still u have to pay. i'll just wait till the day some big company who has a local-music-loving-CEO who would sponsor such gigs.
remember.
NEWBIE GIGS ARENT FOR NEWBIE BANDS. NEWBIE GIGS ARE FOR NEWBIE PERFORMERS.
well..unless u can be Iron Maiden overnight, i stand by my words.
some gig organisers are just professionals who carry out events. its a BUSINESS. BUSINESS is MAKING MONEY. of course they have to make money. because that is their objective.
yet, there are gig organisers who make the gig out of passion for music and to create opportunities for bands here. like one i know, the gig organiser himself has his own band in the list, and he himself has to sell tickets, like he ask the other bands too.
whatever it is, making gig needs money. everything also need money. its just that sharing money with other bands to make a gig sounds so much better and is more transparent than paying organisers to make one for u. still u have to pay. i'll just wait till the day some big company who has a local-music-loving-CEO who would sponsor such gigs.
remember.
NEWBIE GIGS ARENT FOR NEWBIE BANDS. NEWBIE GIGS ARE FOR NEWBIE PERFORMERS.
well..unless u can be Iron Maiden overnight, i stand by my words.
tim098
New member
Seriously, it is both the bands and the organisers fault that we keep talking about these issues. About the organisers, i think we ve all heard the usual "sell tickets", "cover rent and all the other expenses" blah blah. (by the way i personally never believed in FORCE selling of tickets, i.e. making the bands pay)
But, MANY MANY bands ESPECIALLY NOWADAYS are at fault too. Why?
I can guarantee you that in all these 30 tickets selling small time gigs, at least half of all the bands are in for the wrong reasons. They are NO WHERE NEAR good enough, but they want to be "in the scene". Yes these days its like knowing a band or being in a band is the in-thing. Therefore, the suckiness of overall bands increases dramatically.
Despite sounding horrendous, instead of focusing on practising and getting tight for a year or so, they all jump into these small time gigs after like what a month, where most likely almost all the rest of the bands sound like ass too. With such bad quality bands playing at gigs, it really is no suprise to me that some organisers end up using these tactics.
Think about it, the so called "trusted gigs" like deafcon, weekend trip, invasion and all, the quality of bands are WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY higher than the rest of the gigs. They dont force the bands to sell tickets either (not that i know of at least, and i hope im right).
So instead of JUST blaming the organisers, many MANY so called "bands" should be at fault too, for wanting to gig for the wrong reasons when they dont even sound like a band.
Wow long post. My p.o.v., would be interested to hear from any agree-ers/disagree-ers.
But, MANY MANY bands ESPECIALLY NOWADAYS are at fault too. Why?
I can guarantee you that in all these 30 tickets selling small time gigs, at least half of all the bands are in for the wrong reasons. They are NO WHERE NEAR good enough, but they want to be "in the scene". Yes these days its like knowing a band or being in a band is the in-thing. Therefore, the suckiness of overall bands increases dramatically.
Despite sounding horrendous, instead of focusing on practising and getting tight for a year or so, they all jump into these small time gigs after like what a month, where most likely almost all the rest of the bands sound like ass too. With such bad quality bands playing at gigs, it really is no suprise to me that some organisers end up using these tactics.
Think about it, the so called "trusted gigs" like deafcon, weekend trip, invasion and all, the quality of bands are WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY higher than the rest of the gigs. They dont force the bands to sell tickets either (not that i know of at least, and i hope im right
). So instead of JUST blaming the organisers, many MANY so called "bands" should be at fault too, for wanting to gig for the wrong reasons when they dont even sound like a band.
Wow long post. My p.o.v., would be interested to hear from any agree-ers/disagree-ers.
ShyamRaj
New member
well as we have been discussing , its an obvious fact that most young bands need to tighten up. But then again , which of these young bands are gonna say or think that their band sucks. When a gig window opens they all will rush in. Just to play a show. If auditions are taken seriously then the less tight bands would be seaved . Instead , no auditions are held and bands are openly give n a spot to play with the catch of selling 30 tickets. Thats is using bands to do the "runners" job rite.
So bands around , tighten up with jams and use the money to record a decent demo and dish it out to reputable gig organisers. if they dont reply, organise your own mini show and call your friends ... swee boh?
So bands around , tighten up with jams and use the money to record a decent demo and dish it out to reputable gig organisers. if they dont reply, organise your own mini show and call your friends ... swee boh?
theunknown
New member
swee la.. honestly, nowadaes, bands are to kan chiong(did i spell that right?). they easily think they're good enough.
tim098
New member
ya balls..
wantonne
New member
Yups. Getting a gig a decade back was like a hell of a lot harder than now. Basically getting a show at big arenas like Youth Park were the highlights of then.
Since then, gigs are mostly filled with really underground bands and less mainstream. Each gig can attract easily like 200 to 300 plus people in one show. Why? because there was not that much shows each month.
Organisers then could get a lot just by holding a show each month. Enough for them to hold shows at CCs and also big places. The scene now is mostly commercialised unlike then.
I've played in a show where I had easily 200 people in the moshpit and yet more standing around and it has got to be one of the highlights of my time. Literally seeing someone came from behind me and stage dived in a sea of people was crazy too.
But my band leader rejected a lot of gigs that organisers wanted us to perform in when we first started. (and this was before MySpace even started)
His reason: We're not tight yet. He emphasized on quality and made sure we were ready before going on stage.
That's why I believe that bands nowadays are too easily thrown into performing a show. Gigs were a novelty then where only good bands are allowed. Now gigs has become a commodity. Something bands take for granted. No matter how bad or unprepared the band sound, they still went on to perform.
If you say it's for exposure, get exposure when you're already tight. because a bad impression on your first show from friends who come down to watch.. they might not simply come again the next time round.
Since then, gigs are mostly filled with really underground bands and less mainstream. Each gig can attract easily like 200 to 300 plus people in one show. Why? because there was not that much shows each month.
Organisers then could get a lot just by holding a show each month. Enough for them to hold shows at CCs and also big places. The scene now is mostly commercialised unlike then.
I've played in a show where I had easily 200 people in the moshpit and yet more standing around and it has got to be one of the highlights of my time. Literally seeing someone came from behind me and stage dived in a sea of people was crazy too.
But my band leader rejected a lot of gigs that organisers wanted us to perform in when we first started. (and this was before MySpace even started)
His reason: We're not tight yet. He emphasized on quality and made sure we were ready before going on stage.
That's why I believe that bands nowadays are too easily thrown into performing a show. Gigs were a novelty then where only good bands are allowed. Now gigs has become a commodity. Something bands take for granted. No matter how bad or unprepared the band sound, they still went on to perform.
If you say it's for exposure, get exposure when you're already tight. because a bad impression on your first show from friends who come down to watch.. they might not simply come again the next time round.
I way confused on the premise for this thread. Is it a dig at some gig organiserz? Poor quality bands?
My take -
These bands aren't stupid or too young or being conned in anyway. They knew from day 1 what they had to do - contractually or otherwise, their word(s) should have been sufficient for them to know what they were into.
Secondly, paying to play in a gig doesn't just happen to newB bands. Even 'big' bands such as Electrico and GSE paid to play at an overseas gig.
Let's keep things in proper perspective. It's about music and having fun. If someone doesn't enjoy being on stage then they shoulnd't be there in the first place. BUT chances are that they had a good time on stage - the fun and the learning may actually be priceless.
If we're going to hit out at gig organisers then we might as well start off with equipment manufacturers who sell equipment to poor musicians or newBs.
Yah? Educate everyone for sure but I don't see it as necessary to put down a useful and arguably hardworking group of people. Everyone has a part to play - even the joker, the clown, the prince, the crowd, the wannabe rockstar and the entrepreneur.
My take -
These bands aren't stupid or too young or being conned in anyway. They knew from day 1 what they had to do - contractually or otherwise, their word(s) should have been sufficient for them to know what they were into.
Secondly, paying to play in a gig doesn't just happen to newB bands. Even 'big' bands such as Electrico and GSE paid to play at an overseas gig.
Let's keep things in proper perspective. It's about music and having fun. If someone doesn't enjoy being on stage then they shoulnd't be there in the first place. BUT chances are that they had a good time on stage - the fun and the learning may actually be priceless.
If we're going to hit out at gig organisers then we might as well start off with equipment manufacturers who sell equipment to poor musicians or newBs.
Yah? Educate everyone for sure but I don't see it as necessary to put down a useful and arguably hardworking group of people. Everyone has a part to play - even the joker, the clown, the prince, the crowd, the wannabe rockstar and the entrepreneur.
wantonne
New member
Well, I just feel some organisers are doing it for the money. Seriously, they could get a lot by doing just that. Heck quality. Just money.
Unless the gig you're paying for really will benefit the band a lot, I guess it's justifiable. But if it's just to go up on stage and experience a feel of pure adrenaline, $300 is quite a price to pay for nothing else to gain. Compared to paying $500 to play Baybeats? Get the drift?
Message to bands, do your research before trusting organisers with your money.
I'm an organiser myself but I just believe it's unethical forcing a band to sell tickets just so it'll feed your pocket.
Unless the gig you're paying for really will benefit the band a lot, I guess it's justifiable. But if it's just to go up on stage and experience a feel of pure adrenaline, $300 is quite a price to pay for nothing else to gain. Compared to paying $500 to play Baybeats? Get the drift?
Message to bands, do your research before trusting organisers with your money.
I'm an organiser myself but I just believe it's unethical forcing a band to sell tickets just so it'll feed your pocket.
biopromax
New member
Shyamraj, I agree with you bro.
You really can express everything, its hard for me to express. Its been a long time since I wanna write something like this.
Theres loads of organizers out there who are making loads of money from organizing. All the money goes to their pockets. I understand that they wanna earn something from their 'HARD' work and effort.
But what do they do?
Sit by the computer, spamming friendsters / bulletins / emails /.... Get bands to sell tickets.
Worst to worst, are they musicians? Do they know about the feel of being in a band? Money issues / etc.
And from what i gather, the venue are renting to them cheaper than normal
So to the 'organizer' , who thinks you are doing the wrong way, try to adjust the way of doing things.
Don't destroy the club name. The club always support locals. Don't want another gashaus.
PS : I speak from experience when I was force to pay 400 bucks for unsold tix. I know its my mistake. They didnt brief to me why I need to sign it. NO rules and regulations stated too.
SO, my advise is , Think Music Not Money. If sell the tickets to cover rentals, then its ok, understandable, but don't earn too much from these. We need more support from the peoples.
SUPPORT THE LOCAL SCENES!
Cheers....!
You really can express everything, its hard for me to express. Its been a long time since I wanna write something like this.
Theres loads of organizers out there who are making loads of money from organizing. All the money goes to their pockets. I understand that they wanna earn something from their 'HARD' work and effort.
But what do they do?
Sit by the computer, spamming friendsters / bulletins / emails /.... Get bands to sell tickets.
Worst to worst, are they musicians? Do they know about the feel of being in a band? Money issues / etc.
And from what i gather, the venue are renting to them cheaper than normal
So to the 'organizer' , who thinks you are doing the wrong way, try to adjust the way of doing things.
Don't destroy the club name. The club always support locals. Don't want another gashaus.
PS : I speak from experience when I was force to pay 400 bucks for unsold tix. I know its my mistake. They didnt brief to me why I need to sign it. NO rules and regulations stated too.
SO, my advise is , Think Music Not Money. If sell the tickets to cover rentals, then its ok, understandable, but don't earn too much from these. We need more support from the peoples.
SUPPORT THE LOCAL SCENES!
Cheers....!
Hahaha! You seem to want everything - your way.
The guy who spends his time on the computer probably makes more money not because he's a cheat but because he's smarter than you! It's got nothing to do with music.
The guy who runs Cave Events recently posted that he's had financial issues trying to organise gigs where bands are not required to sell tickets.
I guess it's fine with you that a certain group of people lose money but another group doesn't???
Will it be better if bands paid an upfront fee to perform on stage instead of being 'forced' to sell a pre-defined number of tickets?
Overseas gig organisers make tonnes more money but you seek to hit out at local organisers. Get over it.
Educate people by all means, do so, but it's ridiculous to hit out at a small yet important group of people. Like it or not, they have a purpose and not all are dishonest. In fact, such threads have come on here, many times in the past, and not once did I read that these gig organisers were dishonest.
Everyone went in knowing the issues involved. Want to organise your own gigs then go ahead. How many of you have done it and how often? And even then, you will leave out the really smaller bands, those that just want to play on a stage.
Leave them be. Each, band member, paying $20 to play on stage, in front of a crowd may actually be a good tihng for the band members. It's always a learning experience. Some are fortunate and smart enough to start higher up but not all do.
Unless there is a clear case of dishonesty, I think it's fair to put things into proper perspective and keep the accusations and bad vibes to a low.
Educate, but do it wisely.
The guy who spends his time on the computer probably makes more money not because he's a cheat but because he's smarter than you! It's got nothing to do with music.
The guy who runs Cave Events recently posted that he's had financial issues trying to organise gigs where bands are not required to sell tickets.
I guess it's fine with you that a certain group of people lose money but another group doesn't???
Will it be better if bands paid an upfront fee to perform on stage instead of being 'forced' to sell a pre-defined number of tickets?
Overseas gig organisers make tonnes more money but you seek to hit out at local organisers. Get over it.
Educate people by all means, do so, but it's ridiculous to hit out at a small yet important group of people. Like it or not, they have a purpose and not all are dishonest. In fact, such threads have come on here, many times in the past, and not once did I read that these gig organisers were dishonest.
Everyone went in knowing the issues involved. Want to organise your own gigs then go ahead. How many of you have done it and how often? And even then, you will leave out the really smaller bands, those that just want to play on a stage.
Leave them be. Each, band member, paying $20 to play on stage, in front of a crowd may actually be a good tihng for the band members. It's always a learning experience. Some are fortunate and smart enough to start higher up but not all do.
Unless there is a clear case of dishonesty, I think it's fair to put things into proper perspective and keep the accusations and bad vibes to a low.
Educate, but do it wisely.
syed_zack
New member
hmms
well to wad i think is young bands now are wayy to hungry dat in the end they make bad buisness decsions in performing the wrong gigs.im not blaming them either,youre young and u wanna get somehere so u seize opputunities so im sure there are people out there wating to capitalise on this issue.i mean well some of these organisers probably get their pocket money to support themselves,but for those that scandalise the money well karma has prevailed so far right?ha.so well lets put it this way if you wanna get urr band to make it big u gotta learn the ins and out of the buisness im sure theere are fellow softies or that occasional fren who can give u their food for thoughts so let us all jus make the right choices to make a prevention to his matter.after all music is all joy an unity ryt?ha dunt let them ruin the fun for us all.cheers!
well to wad i think is young bands now are wayy to hungry dat in the end they make bad buisness decsions in performing the wrong gigs.im not blaming them either,youre young and u wanna get somehere so u seize opputunities so im sure there are people out there wating to capitalise on this issue.i mean well some of these organisers probably get their pocket money to support themselves,but for those that scandalise the money well karma has prevailed so far right?ha.so well lets put it this way if you wanna get urr band to make it big u gotta learn the ins and out of the buisness im sure theere are fellow softies or that occasional fren who can give u their food for thoughts so let us all jus make the right choices to make a prevention to his matter.after all music is all joy an unity ryt?ha dunt let them ruin the fun for us all.cheers!
Danelectrico
New member
Hey Rork, just to clarify, the overseas gigs that Electrico played never involved the band paying to get a slot on the bill (either for the club bookings or SXSW etc)...in fact the opposite is true. The *expenses* however - flights, transport, accomodation - that's another story of course
Pay-to-play is a different concept altogether that involves the band being obliged to sell a certain number of tickets - their potential profit and more controversially, loss, is tied to the minimum guarantee. This movement exists even in many well known venues in the US - often rolled out by a middleman promoter who is in charge of getting an evening's worth on the bill, but some clubs do institute that policy as well. I don't have enough evidence to really critique the system, but from talking with other respected / more serious bands it's generally something they wish to avoid.
On the other hand, you go in with your eyes open knowing what your obligations are. Frankly if a band can't even get 10 of their own friends in total to pay for a ticket to support and watch them play at a show, then maybe they should rethink the public performing aspect for the now.
Thanks for the clarification Dan - I was thinking of the gig/festival in the US. I thought I read in the papers that you guys and GSE were looking for sponsorship for the trip. My occasionally warped memory thought that you guys had to pay - perhaps it was for the transportation and lodging and nothing to do with getting the gig or perhaps it was all lumped together?
What I see is a two-fold issue -
1) lambasting a group of people who do not deserve to be seen in such a negative light.
2) looking at things in a proper perspective - newB bands 'pay' to get a gig. not so newB bands play for free. To me, if one is bad then the other should be just as bad.
Just because something went wrong, we have a tendency to look for a fallguy. My take is that this is how the system is. It's true overseas and everywhere.
What the newB and not NewB and upcoming bands and well-known nands need to know is that the system is always stacked against them. But even that is a matter of perspective - some just enjoy playing and to partake in the experience.
As long as there is no dishonesty or failure to inform at the onset, then I think it's fair to give these gig organisers a chance to do what they do without being labelled as dishonest/creeps/untalented etc etc.
What I see is a two-fold issue -
1) lambasting a group of people who do not deserve to be seen in such a negative light.
2) looking at things in a proper perspective - newB bands 'pay' to get a gig. not so newB bands play for free. To me, if one is bad then the other should be just as bad.
Just because something went wrong, we have a tendency to look for a fallguy. My take is that this is how the system is. It's true overseas and everywhere.
What the newB and not NewB and upcoming bands and well-known nands need to know is that the system is always stacked against them. But even that is a matter of perspective - some just enjoy playing and to partake in the experience.
As long as there is no dishonesty or failure to inform at the onset, then I think it's fair to give these gig organisers a chance to do what they do without being labelled as dishonest/creeps/untalented etc etc.
Danelectrico
New member
Rork, yes that was for the whole cost of getting there and doing the show. SXSW like quite a few other festivals works by having bands submit their stuff, selecting them, getting them a showcase - but for everything else you're on your own. Likewise for other club shows the best deal you can get is either a fixed fee or a share of the door receipts - neither is going to cover your flights, transport etc hence having to approach stat boards for handouts which still isn't going to be enough which means you are completely insane if you want to tour overseas in the hope that you can even break even, much less earn anything
I totally agree that if you think P2P gigs are exploitative, then simple - don't play them. There is nothing wrong with the concept, it's a fair market transaction. As theblueark very rightly put it - try negotiating with a club, getting the PA and backline, hiring the tech guys, doing the publicity - not quite so easy. P2P is just a form of risk allocation, transferring some to the bands instead of being completely borne by promoter and/or venue.
Failure of a gig is more likely going to be due to bad organisation (including poor choices with regard to venue, equipment, marketing, lineup etc) rather than solely blaming the fact that it's P2P.
It's almost a given that P2P only tends to attract lesser known bands that are still working to get to the next level of exposure. Why would more established bands want to be tied to a burden of selling tickets when they could be guaranteed a fixed fee at another gig...or at least assume no risk of loss (imagine the embarassment if they realised they couldn't sell tickets either!
Are regular punters likely to attend gigs with an all-unheard-of lineup? Probably not; maybe it's more for friends, and a chance to get your music heard by other bands' friends, and hopefully slowly start a chain reaction off that way.
I totally agree that if you think P2P gigs are exploitative, then simple - don't play them. There is nothing wrong with the concept, it's a fair market transaction. As theblueark very rightly put it - try negotiating with a club, getting the PA and backline, hiring the tech guys, doing the publicity - not quite so easy. P2P is just a form of risk allocation, transferring some to the bands instead of being completely borne by promoter and/or venue.
Failure of a gig is more likely going to be due to bad organisation (including poor choices with regard to venue, equipment, marketing, lineup etc) rather than solely blaming the fact that it's P2P.
It's almost a given that P2P only tends to attract lesser known bands that are still working to get to the next level of exposure. Why would more established bands want to be tied to a burden of selling tickets when they could be guaranteed a fixed fee at another gig...or at least assume no risk of loss (imagine the embarassment if they realised they couldn't sell tickets either!
Are regular punters likely to attend gigs with an all-unheard-of lineup? Probably not; maybe it's more for friends, and a chance to get your music heard by other bands' friends, and hopefully slowly start a chain reaction off that way.
RudimentalDrummer
Moderator
I have no commence above - but I have an experience (just once but not relating to Bands).
I was asked to be a Beauty Contest Judge (so I happily agree) - On the day of the Contest, I was surprise to see some older ladies there (some are fat, and some not even have an average looks or body - worst no talents at all) - doesn't matter about this - I just judge based on my opinion and fair judgement.
There were 5 Judges altogether (which I was one of them) - and I really think hard and gave to the most deserving contestant.....The result came out - To my surprise - a Fat Girl got it ... Oh My God - I can't believe it, How could It Be (she rank lowest among all in what I perceived).
I asked the Organising Committee (what Is THis) - They said to me "Don't worry - she won because she sold the Most-Tickets, Her BoyFriend buys alot too - so she automatically become 1st" .....I said "You mean - you have all already decided who wins & who looses from the beginning based on Tickets sold by contestants" they answer "Yes, and this is how it works - you all are here just to showcase that's all".....
I was so angry saying "Never will I do that again for you all", but yes they paid for all my drinks and I do get a Trophy Of Appreciation As A Judge......
Yes - they were have to do this so that The Organising committee can make money (it's not wrong) If we look at it at a Business Point Of View, cause if it's a loss - They cough out from their own pocket to cover lossess here, but definetely Not a Fair Game here...but maybe that's the Name Of The Game for these Organiser.......
Surprisingly - The contestant knew it works this way - and they are there to have Fun - what can I say...but a good experience for me....
As a judge - I really feel like a Sucker at end of day..yes I was but I learned.
I was asked to be a Beauty Contest Judge (so I happily agree) - On the day of the Contest, I was surprise to see some older ladies there (some are fat, and some not even have an average looks or body - worst no talents at all) - doesn't matter about this - I just judge based on my opinion and fair judgement.
There were 5 Judges altogether (which I was one of them) - and I really think hard and gave to the most deserving contestant.....The result came out - To my surprise - a Fat Girl got it ... Oh My God - I can't believe it, How could It Be (she rank lowest among all in what I perceived).
I asked the Organising Committee (what Is THis) - They said to me "Don't worry - she won because she sold the Most-Tickets, Her BoyFriend buys alot too - so she automatically become 1st" .....I said "You mean - you have all already decided who wins & who looses from the beginning based on Tickets sold by contestants" they answer "Yes, and this is how it works - you all are here just to showcase that's all".....
I was so angry saying "Never will I do that again for you all", but yes they paid for all my drinks and I do get a Trophy Of Appreciation As A Judge......
Yes - they were have to do this so that The Organising committee can make money (it's not wrong) If we look at it at a Business Point Of View, cause if it's a loss - They cough out from their own pocket to cover lossess here, but definetely Not a Fair Game here...but maybe that's the Name Of The Game for these Organiser.......
Surprisingly - The contestant knew it works this way - and they are there to have Fun - what can I say...but a good experience for me....
As a judge - I really feel like a Sucker at end of day..yes I was but I learned.
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AgingYouth
New member
What beauty pageant is this siah?
My thoughts on this:
1. Contrary to how the TS chose to describe it, the P2P business model is not exploitative. The terms for the gig are declared up-front, and obligations by both organiser and band are known. Bands have a choice – nobody is arm-twisting them to do this. Exploitation is when small kids are forced to work for the equivalent of 20 cents a day giving 12 or more hours of back-breaking labour. The kids are forced because there is nothing else they or their families can do. Where is the exploitation in P2P? Let’s use simpler words if the big words are a problem.
2. The sense of entitlement seems to run very strongly in some of the posts here. I’m sorry, but where in the Singapore constitution does it say that every band or every guitarist/drummer/keyboardist will given your time on a stage somewhere on this island? Gig Organisers (GOs) do what they do because it is a business. If they cannot make money off someone (band, or club, or audience, or combinations thereof), they will move to something else; they have families to feed too.
3. Imagine for a moment that the TS’ friend had signed up for the gig, didn’t sell the required number of tickets, had then to pay up the difference, felt real sore about it, but miraculously went on to give a real kick-ass performance that burned down the house, and got noticed by David Geffen who happened to be in the club, and got signed up on the spot – do you think we will still have this thread about exploitative GOs?
1. Contrary to how the TS chose to describe it, the P2P business model is not exploitative. The terms for the gig are declared up-front, and obligations by both organiser and band are known. Bands have a choice – nobody is arm-twisting them to do this. Exploitation is when small kids are forced to work for the equivalent of 20 cents a day giving 12 or more hours of back-breaking labour. The kids are forced because there is nothing else they or their families can do. Where is the exploitation in P2P? Let’s use simpler words if the big words are a problem.
2. The sense of entitlement seems to run very strongly in some of the posts here. I’m sorry, but where in the Singapore constitution does it say that every band or every guitarist/drummer/keyboardist will given your time on a stage somewhere on this island? Gig Organisers (GOs) do what they do because it is a business. If they cannot make money off someone (band, or club, or audience, or combinations thereof), they will move to something else; they have families to feed too.
3. Imagine for a moment that the TS’ friend had signed up for the gig, didn’t sell the required number of tickets, had then to pay up the difference, felt real sore about it, but miraculously went on to give a real kick-ass performance that burned down the house, and got noticed by David Geffen who happened to be in the club, and got signed up on the spot – do you think we will still have this thread about exploitative GOs?
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