Now listen here new bands...Exploited Scene in target

[ShyamRaj]

Well its been awhile since i have left a thread here or even left a post . Only reason is because non of the threads seemed to intrest me much. *no pun*

Today i decided to leave one . For some , you might think against me and for some we might merge in tought.

i recently went for a gig * i am not stating which one* to support a friend who just got his second new gig. He is a newbie in the scene who is schoolin and getting pocket money from his parents which is just enough maybe to get him a meal and coke on a hot day.

He has the enthusiasm and want to get his bands name out there. He was told to sell 25 tickets of $12 each to let his band SHOWCASE their talent to whoever came . He had to sign a contract stating that if he sold under 25 he had to pay for the excess amt. which was the tickets unsold. so he sold 15 tics and so he would have to pay 120 bucks of his own pocket money. which is enough to feed him well enough to not live on meal and coke for 1/2 a month honestly.

But there was the nice guy side of the organiser. if he sold anything abouve 30 he will get 50 bucks...

this is simple maths incase some are blind to see...


25 x 12 = $300 <---- organiser gets. anything under .. YOU PAY !!!

30 x 12 = $360 <--- organiser say good boy and gives you 50 bucks .WOW!!!

NOW DO THE MATH

360-50 = 310 <after giving you , this are his profits>

his percentage to you as a perfomer that jammed like hell to nail this gig is 7.2 : 1

which is basicly 72 % ass owned!! that is if you hit 30 too...

other than that you are 100 % owned

WHAT FORM OF BUISNESS IS THIS ? organisers wanna earn their money well give them back
the only reason you are doing this is to ensure a turn out . and the only reason you ask for tickets unsold to be paid is coz you want to cover you ass in paying club their fee before you have to take something out of your own pocket .

Shouldnt you who is doing all their minimal showcassing and publicizing work at the same time channeling all the risk to them and GETTING ALL THE PROFITS be selling those tickets then??

Isnt it your job to ensure these tickets are sold and not getting bands involved?

what right do you have? if you beleive in showcassing these bands at least do it with a good heart and not put their wallents at risk. Do you realise they bring in the crowd?

Back in this gig i went for was a horrible sound system and no turn out other than bands and their friends maybe 1 or 2. imagine how many were placed to this option.

HERE IS MY 2 CENTS WORTH BANDS

to hell with these organisers you know who they are ?

here is what you guys can do.

1. Post on soft.com asking for New bie bands to come forward. Hell of alot will come!!! either a post or a pm.

2.Ask them if they would like to join together to do a gig among new bie bands

3.Call one abang abang band in scene and ask them if they would like to play. if they dont then carry on still..

4,get the list

5.Approach a Club/pub

6.Let them know your idea

7.Give them a date that you want it held.

8. 8 is a beautiful number and a smart clever point. If you are playing for those jerked off organisers that are asking you to buy 25 tickets just to play . Which is 300 bucks confirmed will come out if you dont sell. mind my singlish.

get 5 bands . 150 each . 150 bucks * 5 = 750 .

you got 750 bucks to do a kick ass gig.

9. try ways and means how the pub can work deal around that money . Or book a place for a while for that price or do profit sharing of drinks with the place. tell them you will bring in the crowd to buy a drink. get the date alias with the bands / alocate times.

10: Tell all your friends there is a free gig.

11.Post an ad on soft stating the free gig and receiving support,

12. You had fun , Saved alot of money , Got to know new bands , and got laid!!)

There are great organisers outthere guys . you just have to email them and keep jamming to be tight with a decent demo. Use that money you are paying these kinda gig organisers.

some of my trust are .

Deafcon (amazing)
Fasten your seatbelts (FD8.get the date alias with the bands .DA shit!!)
Invasion
Weekend Trip
Play stop rewind
Baybeats( as u progress newbies )


and beleive in YOURSELF! PASSION b4 Fashion !!
GET TIGHT N ROCK AND ROLL!!!

Theses guys do great publicizing and pride in their shows . some may not pay u but at least they never exploite..

dont sell your self to play.. music is a talent that is blessed..dont let your talent be abused.remember when they say that if you are true to yourself dont sell your music so easily.

I hope no one was offended. I said this from an honest heart. Lets shine together singapura. Enough of the politics among bands already. Help each other out . A newbie ask for advice dont be a rockstar and shrug it away. Take a minute of your time to the dude who watched you. If he ask for help try your best and give some advice . but if you cant oblige, refuse obligingly . SMILE SINGAPORE!!

Good luck on the rockin scene. any questions if you feel u are being taken advantage of by organisers . shoot here. i'll give my point of view . peace. !

 

[shredded]

+1

sounds like gas haus to me...

but ya, i think it's wrong for the newer bands to pay to play at their own gig. the gig organisers may argue that they need to run a business but it's a big turn off for bands to sell tickets from what i observe at this forum. furthermore, the gig orgainser may be able to get more bands, hence more spectators to sell their drinks/snacks. although it can be said that they are given the platform to showcase their talents, i feel that there are other more worthwhile places to do so (instead of selling tickets) since the majority of the newer bands won't be able to sell the required number of tickets. the more worthwhile places could be at band competitons in schools or CCs, and even if there are fees required, it's at a very reasonable rate.

 

[fuzzmusick]

Totally agree with you there..

Having to sell tix is the worst thing one could ever imagine, especially the part where you have to pay back all the unsold tix..

Well the thing is, having to sell 25 tix is quite alot actually.. For example, if many people don't like the kind of music a particular band is playing, who is to blame?

If my band were to sell 25 tix, I'm sure to have trouble selling all of it coz it's hard to find 25 people who really like the music i'm playing..

 

[soft]

When your band is good, organisers will pay you.

When your band is not good yet, you will have to pay the organisers.

Solution: GET GOOD NOW!

 

[pedialite]

There is a choice though :/

don't play = don't sell. Contract mah

I guess newbie bands kan cheong?

 

[wayne1991]

hell yeah!! i agree with shyamraj, ive been wanting to post of of these threads but i just didnt know how to express it..
anyway.. doing diy gigs among friends is the way to go.. can save alot of money..
anyway, i think it would also be good for the organisers to make time to listen to the bands jam.. and rate them.. and not just put all the new bands together.. if the band really cannot make it, at least advice them to practice first before trying to get a gig, dont ask their friends come down and waste money.. and it would also be good, if organisers could start hiring better sound guys, equipment and genre-rise the gigs..

anyway, gig venues dont really charge that much do they?

 

[john_dzite]

well, talking about this... i think making DIY gig with other bands is the best solution. You share cost and everything. If you want it ticketed, don't charge to much but just enough to cover the cost of rental. If there's extra profit, split I guess.

 

[dir]

'good' is subjective on many levels. I guess you should try to find an audience first, before blindly playing at a ticketed event in the hopes of getting your name out there. Nobody said it was easy anyway.

 

[rottenramone]

the band has a choice right? it depends on how much they're willing to do for exposure.

btw, what happened to CAVE events? they were supposed to be the answer to the gigs Shyam Raj mentioned.

 

[theblueark]

I'm not sure how this maths works:

this is simple maths incase some are blind to see...


25 x 12 = $300 <---- organiser gets. anything under .. YOU PAY !!!

30 x 12 = $360 <--- organiser say good boy and gives you 50 bucks .WOW!!!

NOW DO THE MATH

360-50 = 310 <after giving you , this are his profits>

Don't you have to minus cost?

Profit = Revenue - Cost

In this case, for the organiser:

Profit = Ticket sales - (bonus $50 for more than 30 tics sold) - (sound system rental) - (gig location rental)

I'm not being smug or siding with these organisers or anything. I just thought I'd explain very calmly why things are the way they are. Let me go through your points one by one.

1. Post on soft.com asking for New bie bands to come forward. Hell of alot will come!!! either a post or a pm.

Ok you'll get a lot of newbie bands signing up.

2.Ask them if they would like to join together to do a gig among new bie bands

Yes, I think they would.

3.Call one abang abang band in scene and ask them if they would like to play. if they dont then carry on still..

I'm not too sure how many experienced bands would want to play with a whole bunch of newbie bands in a gig organised by a newbie organiser. Assume you manage to find one.

4,get the list

Easy.

5.Approach a Club/pub

6.Let them know your idea

Here's where you have your biggest hurdle. It doesn't make sense for a club to rent out the entire place to you for FREE when you can promise NO CUSTOMERS. It only means the club is losing a lot of potential paying customers on a day that they can just be playing canned music. And you are driving away their usual customers or people who wanted to come but hear music that they don't like. Yes, clubs are in the business of making money, not charity for new bands.

7.Give them a date that you want it held.

No problem. YOU JUST NEED TO PAY.

8. 8 is a beautiful number and a smart clever point. If you are playing for those jerked off organisers that are asking you to buy 25 tickets just to play . Which is 300 bucks confirmed will come out if you dont sell. mind my singlish.

get 5 bands . 150 each . 150 bucks * 5 = 750 .

you got 750 bucks to do a kick ass gig.

$750. For:
1. Rent a club
2. Rent a sound system
3. Pay an experienced soundman (or one of the band member's friends do it?)
4. Pay for a roadcrew. (Or you drive your van down to borrow the equipment and your band members help to set up all the sound equipment?)

$750 is probably not going to get you a club gig. Better you aim for a gig in a studio. If you manage to find it possible, very good for you. Historically I doubt anybody has ever found it possible without very good connections (which as a newbie band, you probably don't have).

9. try ways and means how the pub can work deal around that money . Or book a place for a while for that price or do profit sharing of drinks with the place. tell them you will bring in the crowd to buy a drink. get the date alias with the bands / alocate times.

What ways and means do you propose? It's all about the bottom line. You must be able to pay the club more money than it could have made on that particular night without you around.

What profit sharing of drinks? If you don't promise any paying customers, how is the pub going to make any profits from drinks? Pubs owners aren't stupid, they won't believe you cos you say "you will bring in the crowd to buy a drink". They want certainty. It's business, black and white, contracts.

10: Tell all your friends there is a free gig.

Easy.

11.Post an ad on soft stating the free gig and receiving support,

Easy.

12. You had fun , Saved alot of money , Got to know new bands , and got laid!!)

Unfortunately more likely you had a lot of stress, realised you don't have enough money, raised the amount each band had to pay, made new enemies, and got flamed on soft.



rottenramone: I suppose CAVE realised the above.

 

[AzNjT]

WELL MAYBE, if the bands weren't so SUCKY and Terrok, people would actually BUY the tickets to go see a GOOD show. not some wannabe bands which are made up of people who cant even tune their guitars and horrible sense of timing.

People should just perfect their act THEN perform and not JUST go up and play Just because u want to "show off" to ur friends, and the idiots who get "high" on the crappy music are ALL posers.

I've been to ALOTTA gigs and i;ve seen those people who "headbang" to half a$$ed music and they look like they're havin a fit or summin, they don't know jackSh!t and I really get annoyed and it spoils the whole experience

I've long GIVEN UP having to pay to get to gigs even if its $7 or whatever.

But yeah, every NOW AND THEN theres a good band out there... still not worth my $7 to go see 1 good band and get annoyed by the posers around.

When your band is good, organisers will pay you.

When your band is not good yet, you will have to pay the organisers.

Solution: GET GOOD NOW!

My point exactly, so newbies, PLEASE just stay home and practice ALOT MORE, then SOME MORE, make sure EVERYTHING is PERFECT, then go on Stage and do your thing.

if not Just stay AWAY, already ruined the local "scene" for me as it is already.

 

[ShyamRaj]

Attn : AzNjt and theblueark
_______________________

In my point of view ,the fault lies with these organisers who lure bands with the post of new bands who want to show case their talents to sign up for a gig which obviously has the catch of selling 25 tickets. This is like a bait on a hook for bands to wanna jam out and show their stuff. I agree with you that bands have to tighten up, which is why i am saying they should use the money that you will be giving an organiser to jam and get tight instead.

Just like you have a choice to go for these "horrible gigs " that you claim them to be , these bands have a choice to play for such an organiser. But take some time to remember when you were 18 and was given a chance to play in a gig. How much did you know about contracts at that point aswell. I know many who just jump and play in a gig like this . All coz they wanna rock and roll..

300 bucks is just a figure i was giving . True . The organiser mite not be baggin 300 bucks , but he is surely bagging quite a bit .

I dont have an idea if you have organised gigs before blue ark maybe you have i dont know. But did you know that there are clubs such as House of Rock that has an awesome sound system that would give the place out for free before on sundays . They are free between a certain time slot and they will lend the place to you at off- peak time slots. what about places like prince of wales who supports such bands. L cube rents its place out. And these venues need no rental of sound equipment and sound man becoz they already have there dear brother..

If a bigger band does not want to play so be it . The show as i said must go on.

No one is saying that these bands have to book a place like MOS or ARENA. I'm sure if there is a gig which is free , friends would come and buy a drink to watch their friends.During an off peak period in the club that is still sales. As long as it doesnt clash with their usual crowd. If you want to see a change in support from the scene . the change starts with all of us .

P.s : if you think that they make at least 100 bucks from a gig after all the expense ( organisers) forget not that it is just from one band. which is why they cramp it up with 14 un-auditioned bands. 14 x 100 = $1400 ( into the organisers pocket )

750 bucks is a figure aswell . even 250 bucks will be enough to work something out at a decent studio. everyone starts somewhere. But as a band i do agree that being tight and being presentable on stage both in music and other stuff is important. If you really do you r research you will realise that it is possible to work around that area. its like no being under a label and doing everything yourself. which still works out maybe but just with a lil effort.

i dont need an explanation from cave or whoever. this post is not to burn anyone in particular but to let bands realise what they are getting themselves into and other possibilities. No one is a perfect musician, So help ever hurt never buddy ..coz we aint perfect ourselves. hahaha

Thanks .

 

[shitface92]

hey!i also kena by ultrasound siak at arthouse!

 

[ShyamRaj]

hey!i also kena by ultrasound siak at arthouse!

and how did you feel about it ?

 

[shitface92]

of cos i feel so fed up la.its like i think in a law underage people cant sign contract right?i duno la.actualli we got the money already.its with our old drummer and he ran away with the money.we call and sms yet he does not reply.we even come to his house.still no signal of him.and now we must pay 300 total.and still the stage we playing.the instrument quite sux la.we really cant hear what we are playing.

 

[CAVEvents]

It's nice to know people still remember us! we are still alive, but barely.

What happened to us? we're still recovering from heavy debts.

we did away with minimum ticket sales and worked with the belief that bands would appreciate not being forced to sell tickets.

What happened? we had bands who sold 1 ticket and asked for 8 slots on the guestlist.

Anyway, we are in the process of sorting things out, and we will be back!

Sincerely,
Chang Po Liang

 

[JaarVis.]

i think i know who shyam is talking about. he's an indian with curly hair ? Metal band ?
he kinda begged me to get the tix from him and told me about the contract and stuffs. i really pity him and his band . i couldnt go cuz i got f8ckin grounded. i dont know why organizers go for money instead of trying to promote local music . argh. real corruption in a corrupted island

= shitface92

ur drummer deserve some ass whippings.

 

[rottenramone]

i dont know why organizers go for money instead of trying to promote local music . argh. real corruption in a corrupted island

Dodgy!!!!!!!!

 

[AzNjT]

okay.
i guess thats that then

 

[rottenramone]

shyamraj

people have always been exploiting one another since beginning of time lah, but good u got the flame inside of u. u gotta detach yourself and take a helicopter view of these events.

i've mentioned waaaay back that forming a musicians' union can prevent merchant and vendor from strangling each other. nothing musically creative about it, a lot of legal crap, a lot less heart pain.

or write a withered tree song on it, with a shredcow solo.