any church band bassist here?

[hayabusa]

church bassists, where do you get your inspirations? (besides god, that is :lol: )

but seriously, we've never heard the original version of most of the songs we play, we're left to our own devices and it's pretty freeplay. so it's up to us bassist to make the songs interesting.

i'm not such a good bassist when it comes to free jams, that's why i oh, hate :evil: my drummer so much because he's so dam good at pulling off fancy drum beats (in other words: he shiok sendiri :lol: hehe..) makes me look like an idiot for not able to keep up with him.. but that's my weakness.he changes beat almost at every new verse of the song and it takes me some time to understand his new beat pattern, and just when i make sense of it he changes again. arrgh so frustrating!

so do you:
1. pay attention to the drum beat or
2. keep your own timing and play your own stuff?

i belive drum beats and bass lines go together. so if the drummer and the bassist have it their own way (although same timing) then the song would be a tradegy

guys please share your experience..

 

[yourgrandpa]

both options 1 and 2. I always make sure I get an idea of how the rhythm guitarist and drummer are going to play before doing my own thing.

and for some of the more contemporary stuff which have their own distinct basslines, I try my best to keep to that.

 

[Colarndo]

Few questions: Did you take proper lessons?
Learning to lock in with a drummer(even when he plays variations too) takes some time to learn and adapt. It's simply hands on, not something you can find in a bass handbook.
Is the SAME drummer always on your team? If so overtime you will somehow develop a "link" with him/her, understanding his/her patterns & habits like whether he/she will do a tom roll after 4 bars, how he/she builds up to the chorus etc...
Really, hear the original versions first before figuring out what to play, if not you will have to crack your brain wondering what the feel is like. What my previous-previous church did was to put the songlist with the CD(s) together and distribute among the musicians and even the sound crew.

For the record, I'm not a church bassist.

 

[neverconscious]

You'll definitely have to adapt to your friend's new patterns on the fly, but don't beat yourself up if you're not nailing it immediately every time. If anything the drummer's beats have to flow with the way the song is going, and if you flow with the song too you should both be able to come off sounding good. someone once reminded me (no serious, username 'someone' from this forum ) that the bass is the glue that goes between the guitars and the drums, so after you've taken colarndo's advice to listen to the original versions and gotten an idea of what to play, remember not to slavishly adhere to what you remember.

 

[warwickw]

As long as the music feels good, it doesn't matter if it doesn't sound like the cd (heh I'm a believer of having your own style though it's the same song). It's virtually impossible to sound like the cd (because it's always edited, they use multi tracks, 16 piece band backing up etc).

Being able to recognise the different styles of music is very important (so must listen to more genres of music). If the drummer plays swing and you play rock, it'll sound out. Personally I will try to pay attention to the high-hat (though most ppl will follow the kick).

Normally we'll play along to the weakest link, no point having the musicians who are competant in their own instruments but do not play along as a band.

 

[rylche]

I just keep my lines real simple. Either lock in the root with the bass drum or I plunk down straight eighths.

 

[hayabusa]

Colarndo: Few questions: Did you take proper lessons?

-> i never had any professional lesson (william hung, 2004 :lol: )

ok, i'm almost a bassist version of william hung. anyway i've been working with this drummer for 2 years and i've improved on predicting his patterns. i belive every drummer has their own trademark beat. (i'm only able to work with him once a week for not more than 20 minutes during service, sometimes we don't heve time to practice together)

now imagine the drummer play triplets and the bassist goes 8 beats..uggh
happens sometimes when he changes his beat abruptly[/quote]

actually i've no problems playing cover version songs, as the song flow is controlled and well arranged. but in a p&w service, we never know when the leader (vocalist) wants to repeat a verse, jump to bridge or chorus, slow down, buildup or even CHANGE KEY! that's another challenge to it. wa.. very tension to play in church service.

 

[shinobi]

triplet drumbeat + crotchet/quaver bass rhythm = forty-six & 2 drum solo by tool

their sense of keeping in time is phenomenal

 

[neverconscious]

forty-six and 2 is one awesome song

hayabusa, doesn't your worship leader have a system of hand signals with which to direct the band? If he doesn't, does he 'direct' the congregation with his vocals? Likesay if he wants to repeat the chorus he sings a certain line or something in a certain way that can help you predict?

 

[exin]

a drummer that can pull off a fancy beat doesn't mean he's a good drummer. Good drummers know when to play what and how to play what and they have a very good feel of the whole song.

the best drummers i've seen are the ones who played the simplest beats you'll ever hear. anyway, i think working on your timing is important also, you can't totally rely on your drummer to give you the time, reaason being is, you're another instrument that keeps the time in the band.

therefore a good sense of time is necessay for the bass player, IF the drummer goes out at least you're in time and can make the whole band follow your time.

 

[litford]

i think a lot of it is in your ears. when you hear it, you can feel it. be it following the CD or bringing your own feel to it.

as a church bassist, i always think it's important to at least know the standard arrangement of the song, before any frills or ideas go into it.. simply because of practical issues like practice times, or the level of musicianship with your other band members. having a standard to follow, gives you a common goal as a band to work toward, and kinds of puts everyone on the same page.

a common discipline with cover bands

once you got your foundations locked down.. bass away in the best way you're led -)

 

[Colarndo]

Hey hayabusa, triplets as in 3/4 timing? Like Amazing Grace?

 

[rylche]

It's also good to have much restraint in P&W services as it's about God and not your playing here. Keep it real simple!

 

[heymrbassman]

i feel there must be a communication in the band, usually visual or through hand signals. it will be really hard for you guys to communicate if you do not try to look for each other for cues. when i say that it is for the whole band not just for the drummer and bassist.

if you guys are just preoccupied playing your own instrument then it probably defeats playing live.

talk to your drummer beforehand to give you cues if he is trying to do something different within a song. e.g: nodding of head as a cue..

either that or listen out for his style or which part of the song you are playing, there will usually be a cue before the change in drumbeat by a roll coinciding with a transition in the section of the song e.g: verse to chorus. usually there must be a buildup and slowdown in the song. work on them w your drummer and i guess you should be ok.

but if you talking about doing accents in the song, you guys probably must tie down beforehand.

 

[litford]

establish good music relationships with your other musicians, whether you're a dedicated band (you play in the same band everytime you're on), if if you mix and match, knowing and understanding each other's 'feel' for the song will allow you to adapt or to follow to the last hair on your head in almost all situations.

band mentality, not bassist mentality will have your PW band getting more technical, much faster, and with less heartache. -)

 

[hayabusa]

Shinobi: triplet drumbeat + crotchet/quaver bass rhythm = forty-six & 2 drum solo by tool
:?: :?:

this i understand: roti prata + teh tarek = tummy delight :lol:

colarndo: i don't know how to explain triplet beats to you. something like boney m's 'little drummer boy' i guess..

now, we have a signal system. but most of the time i can't pay attention to the worship leader's hand signal as i have to keep my eyes on the notes on the songbook. my problem is that it's impossible for me to memorize so many songs to play it by heart.

sometimes if things get so frustrating, (imagine a keyboard, guitar and bass sharing the same tiny songbook) - i'll give up following the song and just run around the scale on my own. haha.. it's a lot more fun that way.

the beauty of being a bassist is that we're not tied to the chords of a song. even if we do hit the wrong note, chances are it will sound fine as long as we remain in the same key and scale. when i do this i pass off as 'daring and creative', but the fact is, i couldn't follow the song, so i just chincai play around hehehe.. :lol:

 

[neverconscious]

I think it would be good to try to move away from the songbook. As you have experienced first-hand, it can distract you from what's going on around you (i.e. your worship leader's cues). Even if you can't 'memorise' every single song, it's still possible to remember how a song goes and how the chords move -relative- to each other and apply that to your fretboard knowledge.

 

[litford]

i disagree. cincai-ing on the fretboard is not the way to go if you have trouble keeping up. build your foundations and disciplines right, and you'll find that you'll be locking in with your band and allowing the music to flow a lot better.

my keywords are:

listen
lock
groove
flow ('specially transitions into free worship)

when you listen to the songs, they're not cin-caing. they might improvise, but they're definitely not cin-caiing. our primary foundation is to provide a solid rhythm to be built upon, regardless of how complicated the line is.

i suggest a very nathan east approach to bass playing, get the job done. -) your band will appreciate you more

 

[Z3r0_G]

my problem is that it's impossible for me to memorize so many songs to play it by heart.

at most you play 4-5 songs? try learning 30 songs to session for a night of 3 sets! thats stress!

a song usually has preset chord sturctures that arent difficult to memorise.

i always like to emphasize on theory knowledge. if u have a got a good grasp of it, u can even tell wad chords come next without looking at score sheets.

 

[heymrbassman]

my tip is to train your ears to listen out for chord progressions.

so that if you know the song, you know the progression at the back of your head.

you do not need a chord book.